OK, so I'm reading Alfie Kohn...

[Monkeybird]

...and it is very interesting. And is making me feel like SHITE. As if I've been a disaster area my whole parenting life (punishments/consequences: tick. rewards/bribes: tick...). And I can see the WHOLE logic of his argument and it all makes complete sense.

My oldest child is a PITA sometimes. I think I love him unconditionally and that DH does too. But reading the book makes me go OHMYGOD, that is why he's like this, it's ALL US...

And while that's a bit depressing, I'll get over it, that's what parents have to do.

But two questions...

1. I like to think through things and look at evidence. Who challenges Alfie's approach? Who are his critics? What do they put to him?

1. If a family were to make a complete sea-change in approach, how would you do it? I already think me and the DH have different parenting styles: me a bit more Alfie-ish anyway, him quite strict and firm and wanting very clear boundaries and consquences. I can't see him going for it at all...

I haven't got to the bit about what to actually do and the issues with our eldest seem insurmountable sometimes - he can be very defiant. But presumably (Alfie says) some of that defiance is because we're probably too controlling...?

What do you do?

Tonight:
Me: I think it's time to go to bed now dd & ds, you've got ballet in the morning and you don't want to be tired do you?
both: no
Me: have you brushed your teeth and gone to the toilet?
both: no!
dd: I'll brush my teeth now mummy
ds: i'm not brushing my teeth!
Dh: aren't you? oh well maybe i'll smell that you're awake in the morning!

I found 'unconditional parenting' very thought provoking. Thinking about the long term makes me a more understanding parent. In practice you can't always have the time to take that approach (school mornings when something unexpected happens) so I have be more of a 'because I'm the boss' type parent to get them out of the house on time but on the way to school I always explain why I was like that (the dishwasher leaked, the water had to be mopped up and there wasn't time for you to do xxxxxx).

To the poster with a child that hits, DS (5) often hits DD when he gets cross with her. I don't punish him, but I tell him everytime that it is unacceptable and get him to talk to me about why he hit her then go back to her using words instead and solve the dispute another way. 'Sibling Rivalry' is a good book for pointers on how to do this.

Moondog, what is wrong with being inconsistent? Surely everyone is inconsistent at times, and pretending otherwise - presenting a front for the sake of being consistent is worse than just admitting "actually I've changed my mind, and this is why"?

Also, why is AK an example of how not to do things, in your view?

(Not having a go at you, I'm just interested in your views since you mention your background in behavioural science.)

I understood moondog to mean inconsistency in how the parent reacts to what the child is doing

I don't think you should chop and change your parenting style all the time but at the same time it would be silly not to change if you felt that the new way would be beneficial to everyone.

We had been consistently using a reward system with DS to help him get ready quicker in the mornings (getting dressed, brushing teeth etc)for 6 months but after I read AK we decided to drop the system. I explained why to DS and he was more concerned that not have a pasta jar would mean he would not get to play the Wii again (one of the rewards). He was fine about changing when I said he could still use the Wii occasionally.

After nearly 6 months without the reward system in place, his dawdling is definitely no worse, sometimes slightly better, probably to do with maturity more than anything else but at least we don't have any sulks provoked by his disappointment in not getting the reward.

Could you let her do her own small shopping list? Would she want you to go with her shopping?

Numbersix, I think if the pizza/film was already part of the plan, then you haven't been using rewards just explaining the way things are.

I must admit, I have often suggested something fun to eat that requires one ingredient we don't have in the house in order to get DCs excited about a trip to the supermarket which they would have grumbled about otherwise. They adore pancakes and we are usually out of eggs or lemon (or both).

Doesn't answer the question about what can you do in the same situation when it is school/work and not the supermarket?

How old is she? Can she read the clock yet? Maybe hand over the responsibility to her, with reminders (1O minutes left).
DS really needs 6 min to dress and brush teeth but I allow about 20 minutes so he has time to faff around.

Yes, DS has to eat within minutes of waking up. Me too
We would never get anywhere on time if we had TV on in the mornings. They can't watch and get on with stuff.
Good luck tomorrow morning. I am dreading it as they have been going to bed later than usual over the holidays so it is going to be a bit of a shock tomorrow.

Oh, I see. I thought you had the TV on WHILE they were getting ready. Some people on here suggest dressing your DCs in front of the TV so they are distracted but I know that wouldn't work in this household.

Emailing the article sounds like a good idea. It should be an interesting discussion.

I think the hardest thing I find about the book is showing affection even when your child is being difficult.

Yes, I find that sort of thing (putting your arms round them, holding their hands etc while discussing stuff) easy enough unless I am stressed.
But I realise that when they are being cute and funny and their wishes coincide with mine, I instinctively ruffle their hair and smile at them alot. It doesn't come naturally when they are being a more challenging.