Not taking a child on holiday

[Trixz8913]

Hiya, I just wanted to find out other people's views and experiences. I've got a 13 year old son, who's behaviour over the last 3 years has spiralled out of control. He's constantly being rude to teachers in school, putting himself and other students in danger, searing, refusing to do work, having to be removed from lessons, has been suspended due to behaviour 10 times this past academic year.
He's also frequently exhibiting anti social behavior when he's out and about with friends. Swearing at members of the public, vandalising property, threw around a homeless person's belongings, sneaking out early hours from his father's house (we're separated) and going to the local park starting fires, vaping.
He's bought the police to my home because he was reported for continuous anti social behaviour.
And when he is at home he's quite spiteful and vindictive to his younger sisters, threatening to punch her on occasion.
I have tried every method I know of to try and get his behaviour in check, done the usual taken his phone from him, not being allowed on the console, been grounded and not been allowed out. I've also tried positive enforcement, have given him pocket money when he has behaved well, given cuddles and told him I was proud of him when he went a day without getting trouble with school, have extended his time out with friends when he's been behaving, even have a sweet shop at home where all the kids earn stars for good behavior which they use as currency when they want to buy sweets from the "shop".
The school has tried one on one coaching with him, and he's been put into a cooking class that he enjoys to help break up his time table.

My question is this, the third to last time he was suspended he was told by one of the deputy heads that he was on his last warning from the school is his behaviour didn't improve and he kept getting suspended he would be expelled from the school.
We had a holiday coming up for the summer holidays and after weeks of his behaviour spiralling I had said to him, that if he got suspended again, or had as bad a day as the last (at the time) he wouldn't be going on the holiday, and since that time he's been reported on by the police, still swearing in school,l has been not turning up for lessons, has bunked off school, has snuck out and started a gire down the park where the police and fire had to be called, has stolen things from the home and has been suspended twice since.
So I had said he's not coming on holiday due to his behaviour. Do you think this was too harsh a punishment? Everyone close to me I have asked have said no it isn't, and that they themselves have done the same thing, but I keep getting grief and horrible messages from his father who's saying that I'm being cruel by not taking him, and that I'm saying I don't love him by not taking him.
So just wanted to get the opinion of other parents non bias parents on what they would do, or have done.

Thanks

Not taking him on holiday is the right thing to do for the rest of the family.

You have massive problems though if his father does not have the same views as you with regard to the behaviour problems. You will never get these sorted while he lives with his dad who doesn’t think there is an issue. I’d suggest you look into changing the custody arrangements.

Sadly your son is on the classic pathway to prison: petty crime & poor behaviour leads to exclusion from school, involvement with gangs and then bigger crimes ending in a custodial sentence. Of course it is not a given this will happen to any specific individual but it is a general pattern that is often seen. You need some help but even this will not work unless his father is of the same view.

I work in behavioural management (children throw tables and chairs at me for a living !) and I agree, his behaviour is a cry for help, but in my experience its a cry for help from his Dad.

Growing young men need shaping by other men who have been through this stage of adolescence themselves. If they haven’t got this they will gravitate to any male influence for attention, whether good or bad. Your son appears to be like so many boys (I use that term deliberately) who do not have a strong man in their lives. It would be interesting to know what Dad does do to help his son. It would appear that you are trying your hardest, but you need help.

The good news ? I’ve worked with a whole lot worse than this, so there is hope. I do, absolutely, think you should stick to him not going, that decision has already been made. Do cook with him and keep the praise when he deserves it and hope that this doesn’t get to physical violence because thats not a good sign at all.

The behaviour isn't just happening in school though I guess it could be the same friends there and outside of school.

The op or his dad may not be in a position to home school, especially if they need to work. What happens to him during the day then?

He doesn't have a diagnosis as yet. It may not be ADD or ADHD related.

He does sound like an unhappy child deep down. I doubt having lenient, if any, rules at home with his dad is helping matters either.

Re the holiday:
I don't know the best answer.

His siblings deserve a stress free happy holiday with their mum too.

Erm his dad can fuck off and take him on holiday if he wants to

First of all, is he going to be staying at his father's while you are on holiday? Secondly did you make it clear to your son that he wouldn't be going on holiday if his behaviour continues? Is yes to both then father just doesn't want left to deal with him while you're away and is trying to guilt trip you into taking him. Also you gave him plenty opportunity to behave and told him the consequences if he didn't so don't you dare feel bad. If you go back on your word and take him after saying that then he'll think he can just get away with anything and still be able to get taken on holiday. Stand your ground. Go away and have a break because it sounds like you need one.

Without the fathers support this is going to be very difficult as you're going to be the bad guy.
Dad is just avoiding dealing with it will just escalate he'll end up in young offenders and then get lost in the system you really need to get dad on board and spell out the possible outcomes and say if he's not on board then it's on him.
Your son needs some sort of intervention could you get him in to after school sports or cadets they do fire/police and army cadets.

If a child acts out there will be a reason mainly a trauma of sorts you tried shouting and discipline have you ever tried talking to him to find out why he is scared and acting out

Some red flags here with sons behaviour - especially the cruelty towards siblings - is this something new? You have already started process of looking at diagnosis etc. so I really hope that brings up some answers for you. Did your son’s behaviour suddenly change, or has he always been one for pushing boundaries? I don’t think you’re doing the wrong thing not taking him on holiday - but I do think you should try and have some one to one time with him over the summer and make sure he gets your full attention for something fun as right now it seems you’re the only one disciplining him which makes it hard for both of you to see each other in a fun way. Ultimately he’s your son, you need to decide what you think is best without lots of others telling you you’re right / wrong cos everyone will have a different perspective and some ppl will just say you’re wrong to be argumentative!

I really feel for you. We have a son who was tricky from 10 months old (when he started walking lol) Eventually diagnosed with ADHD. We took him on holidays and he always made it hard going, I think you have stated no holiday if behaviour is poor to your son, you need to stick to this. You and the rest of your family need a break from the stress of this situation. Good luck.

Hereforaglance Sounds like parent blaming. We have 6 kids and 1 was tricky from 10 months old, diagnosed ADHD at 9years old, now 32. He's finally settling down but we have had multiple issues with his behaviour. Our other kids say we did a great job as parents, but he was always the one who got into trouble with the law etc. ADHD is a terrible diagnosis for any parent and child. The impulsiveness, quick to anger, not being able to look into the future and think about consequences has really been challenging for our son. You must follow through though as kids with ADHD need structure and support around consequences. I tend to think if this child is as disruptive at school and home then I wouldn't take him on holiday. Everyone needs a break. But I would do some one to one cinema, cafe , visit grandparents trips.

Tough one OP.

If his behaviour changed suddenly there will be a reason behind it.

It does sound like you need a break, but when you get back could you spend a day out with him alone, doing something physical like paint balling etc and talk to him.

Your other children will be dealing with trauma from living with him.

I'd be prioritising them at this time.
They deserve a holiday of peace and your attention. Which will never happen with him there.

He has resources. You've attempted communication and bonding. If at present he is unwilling or unable to meet you halfway in order to correct his behaviour than there's nothing you can do that would make him tolerable on the holidays.
So he can't go. He can't be trusted.

I'd be ensuring your other children are having their needs met separate to him.

I would not separate him from the family in this way (leaving him behind while you go on holiday) I feel this will make his behaviour worse in the long run. I am sure there are other issues at play here but the core of it is he is seeking attention. If you leave him behind you will make him feel like an outcast and I don’t think he will forgive you for this. Obviously bad bahaviour needs consequences however I don’t think this is an appropriate one and will likely make his behaviour worse in the long run.

Why does every kid who plays up have to have a diagnosis of something or other these diagnosis are handed out way to quickly it almost becoming a parenting trend/competition yes some kids have adhd but not every kid who throws a tantrum will have it

His behaviour can't get worse.
He should feel outcast. His behaviour is abusive and damaging to those around him including his siblings.

How is it inappropriate? He is damging the time others have. He doesn't hey to ruin this.

You are doing all the right things. Continue to get him help /support even while he's not at your house.

Have you referred to cahms? Or looked at private counselling?

If you take him on holiday he will most likely ruin it he isn’t going to change as soon as he gets on the plane.

When you get back scrape every penny you have for a private assessment. As soon as he gets a diagnosis he can start medication.

Could you afford private therapy? You can do it through Skype ect..

Also if be looking at bringing him back - but that private assessment is very very important

Firstly your son isn't ND if he was you'd be seeing issues way before 10 years old.
Secondly you and his dad need to be reading from the same hymn sheet when it comes to discipline. So you should both be dishing out the same punishments
Thirdly next time the police come knocking the door send him with them - he's old enough to be arrested let them; and don't go with him you need to sort his siblings out first before you can go and bring him home.

You threatened no holiday. You should only threaten something you are prepared to carry through otherwise it is meaningless.

If you weren't prepared for this then why did you make the holiday the subject of the threat?

@DavidBeckhamsrightfoot he is only 13 he is still a child and still learning.

And he needs to learn that his very serious, illegal and abusive behaviour has consequences.

His siblings no longer should suffer him

I would be getting some drug test kits as priority. I would also be using what I would have spent on him on holiday on getting a private diagnosis, and paying for private counselling.

The explosive behaviours will manifest in every area of his life, not just at school. The cumulative (coke bottle effect) of trying to fit in at mainstream school doesn't just switch off when he leaves the building.
I've walked this path, there are alternative education options if the OP researched. As soon as a child has missed 15 days at school (not consecutive, and for any reason), the LEA are legally obliged to provide EOTAS (alternative provision, ie individual home tutor). It looks to me that there is no one fighting for this child's needs, and they are being failed and blamed for their likely neuro diversity.

This sounds like a very difficult situation. In my experience, 13 year olds don't have much emotional language to express their feelings and are embarrassed about them anyway. Their behaviour is their communication. I think the split from your husband, even though it is a long time ago, may be impacting on him more than you or he realises. Especially as you and your ex have different parenting styles- his is very low key, yours more rigid, but both may leave him feeling that he doesn't really matter much. His behaviour escalates to see at what point you will both leave him too. It doesn't help him and he probably doesn't know that is what he is doing. The other thing could be that if he is really bad, you and his Dad will have to talk about him and work together - I have worked with teenagers before who thought they could get their parents back together by doing this, even if parents have been separated for years.
I think the suggestion of a different holiday where you and he do things together and may be able to start conversations in a less stressful environment. Even talking when you are driving in the car together ( no face to face contact), can be helpful. Maybe you do something he is interested in - sport or location. Give him some control in deciding hat you do etc.
Good luck, but keep trying. Books about raising teenage boys might be helpful.

Here is some positive information for you, my brother at the age your son is was like him, he went off the rails and demonstrated bad antisocial behaviour, used to steal, had our windows put out regularly, wouldn’t go to school, and just basically did what your son did, but you know he grew up and matured, and now he’s the most mature and nice father you could meet, so this may just be a rebellious phase he’s going through and promise you will get that loving son back, my mam had to kick him out of the house when he was sixteen cos she couldn’t cope with his behaviour, it worked, so don’t lose hope