How to deal with a negotiating/questioning child

[LuckyMum1989]

A conversation with my 5yo DD might go like this:

• when you have finished colouring in Snow White's skirt, put your coat on please. It's time to go.

* can i colour in her legs as well?

• no we need to go. Just the skirt and off we go.

* I just do a bit on her bow.

• No DD. Skirt and then put coat on.

* I just need to tidy all my pens {note... only wants to tidy pens when asked to do something else!}

• No time for that. Coat and shoes please.

[Holds coat out] * Can I put my shoes on first?

• Just put your coat on, DD

* Why coat first?

• [sometimes] because I need my hands

Or

• [other times] because I said so. Let's go.

* Can I bring my bear?

• No love. We're only going to the pharmacists before it closes so not going to be long. No bears.

* If I run really quickly and get my bear and I don't make any fuss, can I get my bear very very quickly?

• i said no, DD. We have to get going. Shoes. Now.

* I just take my barbie because that is already downstairs. [Tries to go back into dining room]

• NO. We have to go. We don't need any toys. Come on!

* if I ask really nicely...

• NO! GO! Come on DD, go!

It doesn't matter if I have pre-prepared her (hence giving her warning about finishing her colouring), if I give her time to get a toy or not, if I say "when the timer goes off in 5 minutes, we are going to get shoes and coat on and get in the car"
EVERYTHING is up for discussion.

Going upstairs to wash hands? Can she wash her hands downstairs? Why not?
If she doesn't put her hands near the boiling pasta water, THEN can she wash her hands downstairs?
Need an early night? If she has no bath (she loves baths) can she have two stories?
10 minute timer to play in her room? Can she have 15 if she tidies up?
If she doesn't make a fuss about this, can she do that?

What does that sign mean? But WHY is that the rule? Is it dangerous? But WHY is it dangerous?

It is exhausting!

The reality is that if the building is on fire, or there is a threat or whatever, I need her to be able to listen to me without needing to understand the whys and wherefores of every little thing.

I don't want to answer every single question with "because I said so" nor do I want to answer every single question with a full and detailed answer!

Sometimes we have time to explain. Sometimes we don't.

Sometimes we have energy to explain. Sometimes we don't.

Sometimes it is easy to explain. Sometimes it isn't.

She's trying so hard to follow all the rules and ask politely etc so she's not demanding in terms of outright disobedience or aggression, which means it feels awful telling her off when her 10th question starts with "If i ask nicely and I am super good then can I...." because she is trying so hard to do things the right way... but at the same time, doing things the right way means sometimes doing things because your mum says so - even if you don't understand WHY all the time.

Help me break this cycle! Any tips out there from a parent who has escaped these conversations with a tiny negotiator?

Well for starters, never answer, “because I said so” to something that has an answer. If you don’t know an answer, you can say, “I don’t know, but we can look it up later when we have more time”

why does she need to put her coat on first? Because if she puts her mittens on first it is harder to put her coat on.

why does she need to wash her hands in the other room? Have a good answer. If you don’t have one, then possibly rethink the rule. Note that the answer can be, “because there is too much activity in this room and it is causing me stress so I need you to move to the other room”

For needing to wrap up, explain that you need to leave on a fixed number of minutes in addition to stating that gives her just enough time to finish coloring the skirt and get ready to leave. Even if she can’t tell time, be specific with what time you want to walk out the door.

keep the phrase “little lawyer” in your memory. If you start seeing other particular behaviors in the next couple of years, it will help your Google searches.

I still negotiate most of the time with my teens.

I would say choose your battles. Does it
matter if DD puts her shoes on before her coat? Why can't she take a toy with her if she's going to the shops with you?

I have found it's easier to negotiate about the more important things if I let the smaller things go and children like to feel like they have some control over decisions for themselves. Give her a choice.

If they aren't important and it doesn't involve them putting themselves in danger then I would let them go.

A good book to read is 'The book you wish your parents had read' by Phillipa Perry. In it she says not to play fact tennis and to come at it from a place of honest emotions instead. She puts it better than me, but they can see that you are annoyed and using facts from above instead of showing your true emotions, and that's what she is learning to do. So something like 'thats true, you could do that, but I would really prefer it if you did it this way. It would make me feel a lot better.' is the truth. Anyway get the book and see what she says. Also it says that relationships should be about collaboration rather than getting in a cycle of doer, and done to. She is asserting her independence and looking for equal communication rather than just having stuff done to her. So I think pick your battles. Would it be terrible if she washed her hands downstairs? Would it be terrible if she had 2 stories? What would she do if you said yes you can. I think psychologists agree now that parent child relationships should not just be training a child to obey. She will model future relationships on these interactions.

Tricky, infuriating.
What about just saying No. no explanation. No. No further words.

What about offering her choices. As recommended in 'how to talk' ; you can do it now or in 1 minute, you can wear red socks or blue your choice, but you need to be ready to go, by the front door ready. Just be more matter of fact about it. Whilst trying to hide your irritation, of this phase.

What happens if you say "yes ok, quickly run along and get your barbie then. Then out straight away" ?

I think she needs to be given choices.

eg - would you like to put your coat or shoes on first? We have 2 minutes, do you want to colour the bow or the skirt? Sorry dd no time for a bath tonight would you like a 10 minute play and one story or two stories?

it will help her to feel empowered rather than she’s always having to do as told snd may stop some questions / delay tactics as she will feel a little like it’s her choice

It is exhausting but it’s part of learning. What she is doing is part of child development. She is learning and growing.

If she wants to put her shoes on first, is there really any reason why not?

Give her appropriate choices so she has some autonomy (self governance). Your decision: put coat and shoes on. Her decision: the order she puts them on. I would have said yes to her request to put her shoes on first.

Children need to hear the word yes too. Before saying no ask yourself why you are saying no. Is it to do with safety, time constraints, respect for self, others, surrounding environment? If it has nothing to do with any of those reasons perhaps you could say yes.

So, try to be willing to negotiate when it is appropriate.

Do you want to be an authoritative parent or an authoritarian parent?

Authoritative: Is in charge but is willing to be questioned and will negotiate if deemed acceptable. Is knowledgeable and has integrity.

Authoritarian: Is in charge but is not willing to be questioned, not willing to negotiate and desires compliance and conformity (unquestioning obedience).

Children tend to fair better with authoritative leadership. They learn more and develop better skills.

FWIW. There are no perfect parents. We all get tired and frustrated. We all make mistakes. We just do the best we can. It’s ok to say that I don’t know but we can look it up or I’m a bit tired for anymore questions, ask me again tomorrow.

I would in this instance give a choice ie "you need to get your coat on in a mi ute but you just have time to color in one more bit- which will it be?
On house rules- one warning and then a sanction

Nothing to say except I could have written this

I remember this - it was extremely frustrating.

It probably doesn't help to hear it but she is developing really useful communication and negotiation skills. You just don't need it when you're trying to get out the front door.

Would it help to have a visual timer? So instead of negotiating the 'nitty gritty' you put the timer in front of her and say 'You have 2 minutes left then we will be putting shoes and coats on and leaving'

Then when the timer runs out and she starts bargaining you stick with short sentences 'Your time is now up, it is time to put shoes and coats on' - more discussion attempts = 'I am not discussing this. Shoes and coats' , and then 'shoes and coats NOW' in a firm voice.

Where you can give a little - so if in her time frame she had got her bear/barbie I wouldn't worry about that (although I know these things are a pain and get lost but you could have a rule that precious things don't leave the house)

The really difficult one to argue with is 'I need the toilet right now' accompanied with grimacing and 'stepping'

I also agree with voicing your feelings 'DD, We need to go out and I do not have to time argue with you, it is making me feel cross/frustrated/irritated' - it's just giving her information that is important to know

Sorry for late reply – it has been a busy couple of days!

This might all come out in a bit of a ramble - and I just hope I don't accidentally delete it before posting (again) hahaha!

It doesn’t matter if I give options, or tell her I’ll give her a reason later, she never accepts what I’ve said until she’s understood the whole thing start to finish.

Writing out justifications for all of these things is quite reminiscent of my day lol. It's almost cathartic!!

COAT VS SHOES
So, in the example above, if we’ve taken this long to get to a certain point and I am stood in front of her literally holding out her coat to put her arms into, she is effectively asking to walk PAST me into another room to put her shoes on, rather than just do the easier thing of holding her arms out and putting her coat on. I was, on that occasion, at a point where I just said “no!”
Of course it doesn’t matter day-in-day-out if she puts her shoes on first. I never normally say anything about it. But it does matter that if I’m holding out a coat because I’ve had a text to say an antibiotic prescription has arrived and the pharmacist closes in 15 minutes... when I really just need us to get a wiggle on!!

WASHING HANDS UPSTAIRS
The reason she needs to wash her hands in the upstairs bathroom is because our kitchen is tiny and "only grown-ups cooking the dinner are in there at dinner time." This is a rule we put in place because of having to explain every. single. time about whether she could wash her hands in there. We thought if there was a rule (that has been explained literally hundreds of times) that it would become habit. But she still asks every day. We just say "You know the rule" if feeling stressed. We take the time to explain it again when we can.

WHY NO TOY TODAY?
She can take a toy with her many times, but as a parent, it absolutely is acceptable that sometimes I say no! On some occasions I have said “you can bring one toy as long as you’re ready before I count to 20”, she has turned up her "teepee in a bag" (and then I’ve had to explain that that is not what I meant and say it has to be a small toy”. She can not put her teepee up in the car!) Or it's a singing dog. (Please a quiet toy - because that sudden high-pitched yowl will scare the life out of Mummy when she's trying to drive). Then she’ll try and pick up her entire duplo house complete with all the little duplo men… (cue an explanation as to something with lots of little pieces is not a good idea.)
To the PP who said “what happens if I say "yes ok, quickly run along and get your barbie then. Then out straight away" – she’ll call down “which Barbie?” I’ll say “any Barbie?”. “Just one Barbie?” “YES!” “She’s not wearing any clothes, I just need to get her dressed”. “DD – just one CLOTHED Barbie!” Ye Gods.
We can’t do that – it’s just not sustainable!

GIVING OPTIONS
If I say, “what would you like to wear? Red cardigan or blue jumper?” it’s “what about my yellow jacket?”
If I reply “because it’s not warm enough”, she'll say “yellow jacket and a little coat?”
And before you say ‘does it really matter if it’s a yellow and a little coat?’ no – it isn’t an issue, the problem is that I cannot tell her every single option for every single decision every single time!
And even if I did, she would still ask why her swimming costume was not on the list (and would need it explaining).

With regards to the colouring in?
If I say “you can pick one more thing to colour in” rather than specify that she can finish the skirt she's currently colouring in. It’s “Does two legs count as one thing because it's one pair?” “Is a person one thing?” "Are all the leaves on one tree one thing?"

I don’t want to keep reverting to “because I said so”, but I’m telling you – there is not a single conversation that can take less than ten minutes if I answer every single question she asks me, until she is satisfied she understands all the answers to the minutest detail.
What does that sign mean?
It means if there is a fire, you mustn’t run back into the building.
Can you walk back into the building?
No. You can’t go back into the building at all.
Is it for grown-ups or children or both?
Erm… both. But definitely children
What about firemen?
Firemen are allowed into the building
Are fireman allowed to run AND walk into the building?
Yes
Does the sign say that?
No.
Then how do they know?
Because that sign is for people who are leaving the building to tell them not to go back for coats and things. They should stay outside until the firemen get here. Firemen know what the sign means.
Are grown-ups allowed to go back into the building to get their children?
Yes.
What if the child is holding their coat? Can they bring their coat out as well?
…Yes.
Can children go back into the building to get other children?

You get the idea.

There is no way to explain how tiring it is. Especially under time pressure. Or trying to explain rules to do with a newborn (10wo baby brother).

I am genuinely worried that if I yelled “STOP!” in the street, or before she put a fork in a toaster, she keep going asking “why?” plus a string of other questions before she would just...stop!

I don't know if it came across this way in my initial example post, but we’re not insistent that everything is our way all the time. That was a real-life example from when I needed us out of the house in the next 5 minutes. I wish I had the time to sit and explain these things to her every time. But...life happens!

DD has loads of options regularly. And yes, we want authoritative not authoritarian, but either way – some level of authority haha!! The current culture doesn’t like us to say it, but we are her parents, we have authority and responsibility for her and sometimes the reason is as simple as “because we think it’s what’s best for you” and we need to be able to say that.

If we say just a flat "No. Not today". She'll ask why. I'll then say "because that is not the decision I have made" and she'll just keep saying "but I don't understand why you decide that, Mummy."

I like the timer idea – and will try and explain to her how needing to get out of the house and to the pharmacist is stressful for me, but I really would just like to be able to say “because we’re in a hurry. Now go!”

It’s like everything in the world has to make sense to her before she can act - and not just the answer, but a really flippin' specific answer.

I’m sure you get the picture after my long ramble!!! I am absolutely willing to negotiate and give her as much latitude as possible and to help her make her own decisions, but we desperately need to find a better way than this. She is a beautiful, kind, wonderful little girl who is keen to do the right thing in every circumstance - but by golly, I’m so tired!

Btw - I love the phrase "little lawyer" - I wouldn't want to go up against her. She'd wrap me in knots!

My word - I feel so much better for having typed all that out. Although I may need to replace some of the letters on my keyboard hahaha

Your child is bright and doesn’t see why adults get to make the decisions.

If you find a solution, let me know. I have one of these.

She’s now 11 and I explain as much as I can and pick my battles but there just isn’t the time and the energy in the day for a negotiation about literally everything. Also mine isn’t as polite as yours…

This all feels familiar. At times like this I have a long discussion with him during neutral time (when we’re not going anywhere or doing anything) and describe what is happening, how it makes me feel, the impact it has on me / the family and then ask him how he feels, what he wants and try to come up with joint solutions. I didn’t take ‘I don’t know’ for an answer.

this is by no means a perfect solution, I still have the ‘why’ conversation once or twice a day, but it helps to be able to refer to the bigger picture not the thing that’s being asked in the moment.

I also regularly say things like “I’m on a rush today because I have to go to a meeting at work, I’m worried about being late because I want my work to think I am reliable, can you help me by doing this quickly and without me asking you twice?” Or something like that so he understand why I might be particular impatient.

You could also go old school and try a reward chart? Particular for key moments like getting to school.

But also just to say that sounds utterly utterly exhausting.

@LuckyMum1989 i have one of these! I call her “little miss loophole” because she’s constantly searching for the way out of doing what other people want so she can carry on doing what she wants but not break any rules. It’s absolutely exhausting, you have my sympathy 🙈 However on the plus side it seems to be a sign of intelligence and a good logical and analytical brain. I’ve also found as she’s gotten older I can set a 5 minute timer and give a list of things to complete before that 5 minutes is up and they all get done. There is still a lot of negotiation and I’m slightly scared of what the teenage years have in store!

Your daughter seems quite intelligent and inquisitive. How would she respond if you asked her what she thinks is the answer to her own questions?

Pathological Demand Avoidance?

Is she anxious if she doesn't feel completely in control?

She's curious. She wants to understand. She also wants to exercise some control of her own. These are great characteristics to have!

Give her choices and hold firm boundaries. So if you say you are leaving in 5mins get your coat on now please, then say ok it's just 3mins left then we're leaving by now you should have your coat and one shoe on! 2mins now I'm just getting my keys what do you need to get next? 1 minute you've got shoes and coat on, I'm opening the door...etc etc.

If we say just a flat "No. Not today". She'll ask why. I'll then say "because that is not the decision I have made" and she'll just keep saying "but I don't understand why you decide that, Mummy."
Say no less! Instead try saying "yes, tomorrow we can, now we're doing xyz."

My DD is still like this and she’s 8. It’s exhausting.

In the situation you've described, I would probably pick up said child, physically deposit them outside the house, lob their shoes, coat and anything else required out after them, lock the door and then lie on the ground pretending to be a robot saying "The mummy robot has malfunctioned due to too many questions".

Your daughter asks the same kind of questions mine asked. They are the same kind I did as a child as well. We never stopped asking.

as a parent, I understand it can be inconvenient, but it is actually fantastic. Your child is trying to learn and understand. She wants to know why, not because she is obstinate, but because she really wants to know. She pushes boundaries because she wants to test the rules of society.

I know it’s not an easy personality type to parent, but this type of child can grow up to be so amazing. Yes, I am calling myself amazing in a way, but I’m really talking about my own child.

you just have to learn to make it part of your natural rhythm.

@LuckyMum1989 If you haven’t seen this before I think you might enjoy it and relate to it.

I love the bit where he compares the simple task of leaving the house before you have kids and after you have kids. It’s hilarious and so true.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eC6eHraeMes&pp=ygUlbWljaGFlbCBtY2ludHlyZSBwZW9wbGUgd2l0aG91dCBraWRzIA%3D%3D

It's very, very tiring.

A few things that I would do:

Allow room for negotiation.

So with the colouring example, start with 'you can colour in half of Snow White's skirt'. She then comes back with 'can I colour all of her skirt if I'm quick?'. You then say 'Will you come as soon as the skirt is finished?'. Get her agreement on this. Then if she tries to further negotiate you remind her that you made a deal and she must stick to a deal/promise (I imagine there will be an initial long conversation about why we stick to our promises, but long term they do accept a deal they've 'won' more easily than one they 'lost).

Answer her questions with a question, play her at her own game.

What does that sign mean?

What do you think it means?

I don't know.

How do you think we could find out?

Etc. etc. Often they're just looking for conversation. Make her use her brain.

Don't be afraid to touch her.

With the coat example, just put it on her while she's asking about shoes. Take her hand and lead her out of the door. Be gentle, don't fight with her, use gentle touch to guide her.

Pick your battles.

That one is self-explanatory

Use your tone to express a serious warning.

Don't worry about her not stopping in an emergency situation. They understand tone. Raising your voice and saying 'STOP' in a stern tone should illicit an immediate stop. They understand the difference between that and 'put your shoes on', particularly if you don't normally raise your voice.

Don't be afraid to ignore the questions sometimes.

Shoes on please, DD.

Can I get a Barbie?

Shoes on please DD (hand her shoes to her).

But can I bring a Barbie?

DD, please put your shoes on now (open the door).

I need to bring a Barbie.

Shoes on please (start walking towards the car).