Can 10 year olds be narcissists?

[LittleMissCloud]

Our DD is now 10 but she has never really outgrown the toddler style tantrums. She is foot stamping, screaming, demanding.

She is charming and polite and kind with nearly everyone else outside the home, particularly at school (model pupil in the classroom) and seems socially sophisticated.

At home, she is the opposite. Will do everything she can to put off doing her homework (despite being quite naturally bright). She will gravitate towards anything with sugar and reject nearly all vegetables or any food that looks a bit different eg the chicken may be dark brown so she will consider it burnt. So far, so normal I guess…

Just before we leave the house, she will nearly always have a meltdown over her clothes (too tight, too small, too hot, not the right style)…

She is constantly moaning about every single friend - even the ones who seem utterly blameless to me. She is the sort of ‘popular’ girl I would have initially wanted to hang out with but also the type that would be a nightmare. I just cannot relate to the friendship drama.

We have just had her birthday. Sleepover with a handful of friends. Activity she picked. Sushi. Burgers. A cake that I bought as she said she hates my baking. She screamed about the cake initially but ate it quite willingly. She had already had a joint big party with a friend but this was several weeks ago (only date that worked for all) and we felt we had to do something ‘small’ at least for her birthday.

We have bought her nearly everything on her wishlist and yet she says no one was nice to her. She said it’s the worst birthday ever. Everything is perceived as a slight against her.

The problem with boundaries and her is that she has zero fear. It takes all my self control not to smack her as occasionally she does launch herself at me, legs and fists flailing. She is not scared of anyone or anything even when DH puts on a menacing voice. She has a quick-witted comeback for anything.

Our older son is - relatively - an undemanding dream. He occasionally has a meltdown over screen time but recognises he’s being unreasonable.

From the start she has been much more vocal and determined.

I know all behaviour is communication and she seems to be telling us she feels unloved yet we bend over backwards for her so I don’t know what more we can do. We do try to set boundaries, have dramatically cut back on screens and have a better bedtime routine (she resists bedtime).

I’m dreading the teen years. Help!

bloody hell. Imagine your own mother asking this when you’re 10 years old

just cannot relate to the friendship drama.

because you are an adult and this child is 10 FFS

OP I disagree with other posters. She sounds like a disgraceful brat. What are you and your husband doing to tackle this behaviour?

Narcissists are not born, they are created. Products of their environment and upbringing. You need to look at your own parenting before labelling her.

this

She sounds very unhappy to me

Narcissistic no. Spoilt brat yes.

Has she ever been assessed for additional needs? The clothes and food thing sounds like it could be sensory, I don't want to jump to conclusions but could she have asd?

No. A child cannot be a narcissist.

@Springles My DH is quite harsh toned with her when he has had enough so that isn’t massively helpful. I try to address it at the time but I often find she needs to explode before she can come back down. But it’s mentally exhausting. I really worry she will become a nightmare adult. I love her to bits. If you met her you’d probably be blown away as she is hilarious, smart, good at nearly all she tries and yet she must have really sh*t self esteem to behave like this and perceive everyone as being against her. For that reason I’m reluctant to be too harsh. I have removed screens though and she now does relent when I tell her to turn things off.

Very open to suggestions.

It's common with girls with asd to be fine outside of the home but then can't hold it together at home.

this.. as hurtful as it sounds, you need to look at you!

I agree. OP it really does sound like you pander to her for fear of her reaction if you don’t. She has learned that bad behaviour gets her what she wants. It’s really tough but you really do have to firmly enact some very tight boundaries and prepare yourself for the short term fallout. Good luck!

She's not a narcissist.

I wouldn't diagnose SN online but the sensory issues you describe and the 'seems socially sophisticated' - key word seems - sound like they fit various things.

However the main thing is how you parent her and you may as well do that as if she has asd or another SN. You don't need to give in to her every whim. I personally would be backing right off homework, gifts and treats, and be going in heavy with affection and time spent together doing things that make conversation easy. I would be sympathetic to the sensory issues. And I would give her lots of down time to decompress too.

Have you considered she might have autism or ADHD?

No 10 years are not narcissists.

It’s down to your parenting. Her behaviour is all down to you.

Babies are born with a clean sheet. We mould them in to the people they are. (Unless they are ND)

no, 10 year olds cannot be narcissists.

I’m very much open to looking at me and what I’ve done wrong. I have let both DC get away with doing little to no chores. I used to have a decent career but definitely down scaled this to make time for the DC. I literally wear clothes with holes and avoid buying things for me so the kids don’t go without and I know many of you do that too. She gets her sarcasm from me perhaps - though her comebacks are much wittier. Perhaps that is a sign of narcissism. Overall I don’t think my own behaviour is narcissistic but maybe I’m wrong? What sorts of things should I look out for in my own behaviour? Came from a DV background in own childhood so would not inflict this on anyone. Perhaps that’s why I’m timid with confronting her and am shocked at her behaviour as I would have been thrown across the room at stage 1! And I know this is massively wrong so have done all I can to avoid a repeat of the pattern. DH is a bit avoidant too as he was neglected.
I recognise all DC are self centred and that it’s a survival thing but at what point do we gently point out she’s being unreasonable about others? I can hear her slagging off other children to others and it’s awful!

I’ve got a ten year old dd and I recognise a few bits and pieces here. Teachers pet at school but hard work at home. You really have to hold boundaries but also explain boundaries and take lots of time to talk. I also have to think out and temper expectations before days out or special events. If we go to the fair for example I’ll say before hand how many rides we can do and what treats I’m prepared to buy. Yours sounds a wee bit spoilt so you need to stop giving into her wants and demands.

"It’s down to your parenting. Her behaviour is all down to you."

Jesus, this is so wrong.

Genetics play a massive role in the development of a child.

This girl is showing inability to contain emotions, sensitivity to criticism, sensitive tastes and reactions to food, wanting foods to be very uniform and the same every time, etc.

However, if my daughter said 'I hate your baking' I would say 'what you said sounds very rude. If I wasn't your mother I'd probably have my feelings hurt. Can you try and say what you mean in another way?'
Or else say 'you say you hate my baking, could you explain that a bit more, because there isn't much information in that for me'.

With a child like that you have to teach them about reactions, you can't just take stuff personally or give back a similar retort, because that's not helping the kid to learn how their behaviour affects others.

There's no point meeting one 'acting out' with another 'acting out'.

There's no information in a slammed door, a shrug of the shoulders, a huff, or a smart remark. Especially if the other person isn't good at reading social cues.

I have one very similar! she is just strong willed and pushes as much as she can. I will put my hands up and say it is down to my parenting and being over indulged.

Thanks I have considered SN. I suspected ADHD but as a ‘control’ experiment I have really toned down screen time to see if that helps and if it’s environmental rather than innate. Both schools she has attended have never picked anything up though I’ve asked. Her tutor is a SN specialist so I will openly ask. She has commented before that she does flit around a lot but noticed an improvement since we tackled her sleep issues.
Not sure about ASD - doesn’t seem to fit. She is a perfectionist in that she doesn’t like to tackle things unless she knows she’s going to nail it. Maybe that is a trait?

You shouldn't have bought her a cake after she said she hated your baking. Etc.

Witty comebacks are not narcissistic- maybe a sign of a very on the ball, sharp child. I have one who’s 8

Why are you obsessed with narcissism?

Yes, 10 year olds can have narcissistic traits... because by definition, narcissism is a childlike inability to be empathetic or to take responsibility for things. Our job as parents is to help them grow out of this and learn empathy, accountability and responsibillity.

One thing I will say is that some of these behaviours can be typical with ADHD. I'm not saying that if she's like this it means she has ADHD, but I am flagging it. A less obvious and well known aspect of ADHD is struggling with some aspects of social behaviours, including struggling to see what's really happening and/or taking things too much to heart.

Like other ND, children can mask a lot at school/out and about. And inattentive ADHD can often hide itself until the child is a bit older and their struggles are impossible to mask as expectations increase.

What is her CAT score?? I would suspect like mine just very bright and could buy and sell you!