Can 10 year olds be narcissists?

[LittleMissCloud]

Our DD is now 10 but she has never really outgrown the toddler style tantrums. She is foot stamping, screaming, demanding.

She is charming and polite and kind with nearly everyone else outside the home, particularly at school (model pupil in the classroom) and seems socially sophisticated.

At home, she is the opposite. Will do everything she can to put off doing her homework (despite being quite naturally bright). She will gravitate towards anything with sugar and reject nearly all vegetables or any food that looks a bit different eg the chicken may be dark brown so she will consider it burnt. So far, so normal I guess…

Just before we leave the house, she will nearly always have a meltdown over her clothes (too tight, too small, too hot, not the right style)…

She is constantly moaning about every single friend - even the ones who seem utterly blameless to me. She is the sort of ‘popular’ girl I would have initially wanted to hang out with but also the type that would be a nightmare. I just cannot relate to the friendship drama.

We have just had her birthday. Sleepover with a handful of friends. Activity she picked. Sushi. Burgers. A cake that I bought as she said she hates my baking. She screamed about the cake initially but ate it quite willingly. She had already had a joint big party with a friend but this was several weeks ago (only date that worked for all) and we felt we had to do something ‘small’ at least for her birthday.

We have bought her nearly everything on her wishlist and yet she says no one was nice to her. She said it’s the worst birthday ever. Everything is perceived as a slight against her.

The problem with boundaries and her is that she has zero fear. It takes all my self control not to smack her as occasionally she does launch herself at me, legs and fists flailing. She is not scared of anyone or anything even when DH puts on a menacing voice. She has a quick-witted comeback for anything.

Our older son is - relatively - an undemanding dream. He occasionally has a meltdown over screen time but recognises he’s being unreasonable.

From the start she has been much more vocal and determined.

I know all behaviour is communication and she seems to be telling us she feels unloved yet we bend over backwards for her so I don’t know what more we can do. We do try to set boundaries, have dramatically cut back on screens and have a better bedtime routine (she resists bedtime).

I’m dreading the teen years. Help!

There are two ways narcissists are created in their environment. Firstly of course they have personality traits that lend themselves to narcissism as a coping mechanism.

High criticism cold harsh environments which are deeply shame inducing. Narcissism is a defence mechanism.

Over praise/over value environments where children are basically “spoilt” in old money. They do not learn boundaries, emotional regulation, relationships where counter intuitively the child feels very unsafe because they are essentially in charge and so they become narcissistic to cope.

If it isn’t developing narcissism I think you still should consider parenting courses because her behaviour is nightmarish. We have children on the spectrum so have done a lot of parenting courses. They are invaluable for any child rearing.

@AToyotaYarisforPetessake

Absolutely! Autistic people often have affective empathy in spades, just struggle with cognitive empathy.

Can you explain this please?

Sound spoilt, frankly.

When she is upset or worried about anything, do you really listen to her? Or do you buy her things to make her feel better?

I had a friend like this. She could be quite monstrous, unpleasant. Violent to her boyfriend, even. When she was older, she admitted that whenever she and her sister were upset, their parents would simply buy them things instead of listening/consoling/offering constructive help.

I don't think that fussiness over food and clothes mean autism.

She isn't a narcissist. She's behaving like this at home because you allow her.

She tells you things that she doesn't like your baking so you buy her a cake? Wishlist for a 10 year old for a birthday? She should be more than happy to get a hommade cake and gifts that you pick out.
She sounds very spoiled to me, and also seems like you want to fix the problem by buying and giving things to her- which only makes her behaviour worst.

I'm sorry, but your daughter isn't a problem here. Most children would act similar if they could get away with it.

And do you ever criticise her behaviour? Do you tell her she is being ungrateful about her birthday, or unkind about her friends?

I remember being roundly told off for a couple of instances of meanness and selfishness when I was around 10. Typical 10-year-old stuff, but I'll never forget them. If my parents had let those things slide, I simply wouldn't have learned my behaviour was wrong.

Your poor daughter.

I recognise all DC are self centred and that it’s a survival thing but at what point do we gently point out she’s being unreasonable about others? I can hear her slagging off other children to others and it’s awful!

OMG I can't believe you would let her talk like this. I mean I maybe wouldn't bring it up infont of her friends (actually that would totally depend on what they where saying) but I would certainly be having conversations on how it was inappropriate to talk about others like this. Sounds like she really did appreciate her birthday presents, does she want you to take them back. I'm a bit hard line I'm afraid I think you've spoilt her and she doesn't appreciate anything you do for her.

This.

Is she aware that you regard her brother "a dream"?

Please don’t fall into the trap of linking your 10 year old child’s behaviour to being a narcissist. It’s unhelpful and untrue, and an easy get-out for dealing with behaviour that is problematic but not unrecoverable.
Firstly, my 3 year old has age-appropriate chores (puts his plate on the counter when finished, lays the cutlery out for meals, puts his clothes in the laundry hamper etc) so your DC definitely should! It will absolutely be met with resistance as it’s not their normal, but ultimately it builds self esteem, life skills and a sense of responsibility and community within the family. Montessori works for older kids as well as younger ones!
Secondly, act like you really like your DD. It doesn’t matter if you find her interests boring or whatever, it’s important that she doesn’t feel like you’re scared of her or dislike her. It’s really unnerving for a child to feel like a parent dislikes them, and that the parent is not “in control” of the situation. Regulate your emotions, be firm with your expectations without shouting or acting exasperated.
Be interested in her, and “catch her being good” even if it’s the TINIEST thing you can genuinely praise (e.g. “well done for avoiding hitting that car with the door, it’s a tight spot isn’t it”).
Also, the buying stuff/bending over backwards/having holes in your clothes is not helping anyone. You have to have clear expectations of what behaviour and talk is acceptable and what is not, and follow through on consequences if not respected. You can do this! It’s not too late, best of luck.

I think this is a rough age for girls. I
know a lot of 10 year old girls who are a total
dream at school, sports, friends’ houses etc but very very hard work at home.

What helps - having fun together. Giggling, singing, crafting - not ££ activities but ways to allow you to delight in her (and show you delighting in her) just being herself. Does she still play with toys at all? If so, play with her. Do you read to her? Find a series of books you both enjoy and can discover together. 10 year olds want to seem very grown up but they are still very young and still need so much nurturing.

And at the same time - get those boundaries in place. When you hear her being unkind or when she treats you badly, absolutely call her out on it. Let her know that way of speaking isn’t acceptable. Tap into that empathy she has. “How would you feel if your friend spoke about you like that?” Etc

Good luck OP.

Narcissists are created, usually by their parents.

She sounds 100% Autistic and or ADHD. I wouldn't even bother listening to the school. The nonsense they told me. They rarely commit to telling parents they suspect this in my experience. So you have to go with your instincts that something is different ( it clearly is) and so your own research and reading into it.

I went down this road with my son. I worried at first it was all my fault. Then I worried he may be a psychopath. He's actually a wonderful kid and I just couldn't see what was right in front of me. Getting assessed ( privately because I was gaslit to high heaven and the NHS refused to assess!) was the best thing ever. The diagnosis made everything make sense. You have to parent these kids differently. Old fashioned approach of do as I say will never ever work. I don't think she is a brat at all. She's just struggling. Kids just want to please their parents and if they aren't it's because they are struggling.

I just want to start with a definition of what a Narcissist is because it seems to get thrown around a lot as a word to use for someone with an unpleasant personality but it's an actual condition with a set of traits

"Narcissism is a self–centered personality style characterized as having an excessive preoccupation with oneself and one's own needs, often at the expense of others."

Your DD sounds like she needs some solid boundaries and to be given consequences when she acts in an inappropriate way.

Slagging off her friends behind their back needs a discussion where it is made clear to her that she is being cruel and bullying, that if she continues like this she'll end up with no friends because who would want to spend time and energy on someone who is hateful to them.

I think she probably needs some downtime after school to decompress, time without screens or big sensory inputs, doing any activity like a craft, or reading a book, or listening to some music. My DD gets overwhelmed by too much social interaction and by the pressures of putting on a good show at school, spending 30 minutes in the hammock at the end of the garden listening to some music or up in her room reading a book helps to settle her. She also needs to eat a snack after school or she gets hangry. Look for the clues that she is about to snap and try a few different things till you identify a routine that works for you.

Mornings DD needs a fixed routine, she gets fraught if she is rushing around or at risk or being late, that means we try to make sure we stick to the same time for waking up, getting dressed, having breakfast etc. she chooses clothes the night before to make sure she has what she wants to wear ready.

The hissy fit about birthday cake would have meant no cake, she wouldn't have got every single thing she wanted for her birthday or an expensive meal after a big party. There need to be limits and being given everything with no expectation of good behaviour or the completion of any chores to earn those things will lead to her believing she can have what she wants when she wants no matter how much of a pain in the arse she is being.