Is what my toddler said serious? (trigger warning - potential child abuse)

[TheNextFreakingThing]

Ds is 2 years old. He turns 3 in September. He joined a new childminder beginning of December. He has settled in well and goes there happily. Today evening when I changed his nappy he asked me if I'm using my finger. I said no, just a wet wipe. He asked me a couple of times more. Then I asked him if anyone uses their finger while changing his nappy and he said the name of his child minder. I asked what she does and he touched and pulled his penis and poked with his finger around his groin. He seemed to find it hilarious. I asked him very casually a couple more times and he did the same thing but then I stopped asking because i didn't want to implant thoughts or false memories in his head by asking leading questions.

Should I be concerned? I mean I am very concerned but I also think it's likely to be just random toddler talk. Ds isn't the most reliable narrator at the best of times.

The childminder is an elderly lady who has been working with children for decades. She works together with another young childminder. If I remember right the changing area is just in the passage and not anywhere private or secluded. There has been no change in ds' behaviour recently. He's a happy little boy.

I dont know what to do. I can't imagine anything sinister is going on but what if? Can i take that risk? I'd also hate to make such a serious allegation against a most probably completely innocent person but again...what if?

For now, I'm planning to just not send him anymore and try to get a nursery place for him but that's quite difficult in my area.

Am I overreacting? Or underreacting? What else can I do? Where do I get help?

Ring the NSPCC for a chat and advice:

www.nspcc.org.uk/support-us/ways-to-give/donate/?source=ppc-brand&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gclsrc=ds

Why don't you ask her

It’s a moot point as OP states sudocream on the bum only.
However, some children that age have remarkable FM skills and some don’t.
For me, pulling stroking and poking are pretty distinct and if the child was able to replicate those then the child would also have been able to replicate the willy being picked up to be cleaned under.

I always apply sudocream with my bare hand/ fingers to any little bum I have ever changed. Not many but the kids in my family and my two little brother that are much younger than me. It could be that and because he can feel the touch of them find it funny instead of the feel of the cotton pad?

I have never thought of using cotton wool to put on cream. I thought everybody used their fingers.

That would explain why he noticed the difference but if you feel concerned then move him.

The fact you always use wipes or cotton wool etc when cleaning him and don’t usually touch with bare/ gloved hands means it has probably stood out as feeling different that the childminder does this. It is pretty normal to apply creams with a finger and to use fingers to move the penis out of the way. It’s probably nothing, it might be that they play a tickle game on other parts of his body but because they also use hands when changing he’s mixing up the feelings etc as he’s not used to it at home but I think it would still make sense to calmly raise it with the childminders though and see if she puts your mind at rest. If her reaction or explanation doesn’t put you at ease or brings up more questions then you probably need to go with your gut but I’d deal more infornahon first.

Hi Op,

I’m a childminder and work with my husband. A child making an allegation like this is my worst nightmare, second only to my own 3 year old making one about her lovely childminder 🙁

Although my initial instinct is that this is nothing - as you say, there are no other signs of abuse, your son was laughing and undisturbed, no change in recent behaviour etc, you are still absolutely right that you can’t just leave it be.

I think the first thing to do is to speak to the childminder. It will surely catch her off guard and I think it’s likely you’ll know from her response if anything unsettling is going on. She might know exactly what he’s talking about and remember a specific incident when she put cream on, it got on his private’s and she needed to wipe some off, for example.

I have heard some really odd and tall tales from 2/3 year olds. You should never ignore them, but they should always be taken with a pinch of salt in the absence of other concerns. X

Should i just straight out ask her? I thought I'll ask her how exactly she changes him, where she applies sudo cream and if she uses gloves. Should I tell her what he said?

I really, really don't want to move him. He's happy there. He's been through quite a few changes recently. I don't want him to have to get used to a new place again unless he needs to. There are reasons why I'm not keen on putting him in a nursery again but I'm considering it now because I feel there's some sort of safety in numbers and they will have strict procedures and processes and oversight.

Now in the light of day it seems crazy to think that anything untoward is going on. The problem is my gut says it's nothing but there's a nagging feeling that if my child makes such a serious allegation I can't just brush it off.

It's actually fairly normal for little boys to hold their penis/fiddle around with it. It's just curiosity and it doesn't mean that an adult is abusing them

They don't clean him very thoroughly by the way. There usually is a tiny little bit of poo still when he comes home in the evening. Ive asked them to be more thorough but nothing has changed. There is never poo around his penis though so maybe they do focus more on thst area. I've had this problem (of not cleaning up thoroughly after a poo) with each and every place he's been so I've given up on that now.

Yes and he used to fiddle around during nappy changes though I haven't seen it in a while now.

If he'd just fiddled I wouldn't have been worried. I'm just worried because of thst in combination with what he said about using a finger and showing me how the childminder does it.

I have a child the same age (turns 3 in October) and no this wouldn't concern me. For one, I couldn't reliably trust anything she says given her language. It's very good but she's two!

If you want him cleaned better, if you want cream only on his bum, and applied with cotton wool, those things are all absolutely fine to say to the CM.

The idea that it could be sexual abuse seems wildly far fetched to me. I suspect she says 'oh I've got cold fingers! Brrr!' or something similar and he giggles.

I understand what you're saying, but it's actually normal to apply nappy cream with your finger. We've always done so, we've never used cotton wool.

When you use your finger, you can use a dabbing motion, a rotating motion or you can apply it in a straight line.

Maybe your son just wanted to show you how the childminder does it because it's so different to how you do it.

This post is really spot on. The child minder definitely deserves a chance to explain herself here before you suddenly withdraw him from her care....you could start by asking how she goes about changing him and explain why you are asking?

The actual practice of changing a nappy will be the same in a nursery - one person in a slightly private though ideally not isolated area changing a nappy and using their hands to move the child and apply cream.
The only difference might be that the nursery insists on aprons and gloves whereas a childminder likely doesn't.

I think the first thing to do is to speak to the childminder. It will surely catch her off guard and I think it’s likely you’ll know from her response if anything unsettling is going on.

See I don't think it would be easy to judge by her response. A lot of people become defensive if they feel they're being accused of something, especially something as awful as this, just as I assume a guilty person would. I'm one of those people... I even feel guilty when I walk past the police 🙈

I agree with this, and also once you have even a suspicion like this I think you do have to move. The relationship has broken down.
From what the OP has described it does seem highly unlikely that anything untoward has gone on, but the OP doesn't trust the childminder - and if you raise it with the childminder, even if she reassures you nothing happened, she will now always worry that the OP/her child will make an allegation.

@TheNextFreakingThing How are you feeling about everything today, OP? Hope you’re okay x

I don't think I'd talk to the childminder. I think I'd second the advice of talking to the NSPCC.

I've got a 2 year old boy too, I know what they're like. Mine came home convinced his friend had been playing upstairs with him yesterday - she hadn't. They like to parrot and chat and it's difficult to know what is "just" chatting and what is him telling the truth.

But I wouldn't risk this. He hasn't played with himself during nappy changes for 6 months or so now but if he suggested nursery was, I'd ask to see the CCTV. The chances are small but the implications are huge. I do put on Sudocrem with my fingers, but not around his willy, and if it had been around his willy yesterday, there would have been residue for you to see. I'd also expect that, given the childminder will be doing more than one nappy, they'd have gloves on at least; and probably use a cloth?

It could so easily be nothing, but you have to advocate for him.

Nurseries should have two people in the nappy room, I believe. All the ones we looked at did, as did the ones I worked in way back when. They will be tighter on gloves/aprons/processes. They should absolutely make sure your little boy is fully clean! But so should the childminder.

@YouveGotAFastCar I've worked in several nurseries and done agency work in many more, and never been in one that has CCTV or two people in a nappy changing area.
Also as a childminder I never used gloves unless the child had d&v.

Can't imagine there will be CCTV on nappy changing area and not sure a childminder would have CCTV anyway

Ask her but not in a confrontational way

Maybe say ds is being tricky to chnage nappies and how does cm do it /is he good /lies still for her

And see what her reaction is

Fwiw as a nanny and mn and I have always used finger to put cream on and not wipes /cotton wool

So he had fiddled before?

I would get your point if he had mimicked putting a finger in his bottom or something but he merely mimicked a fairly normal cream application process