Is what my toddler said serious? (trigger warning - potential child abuse)

[TheNextFreakingThing]

Ds is 2 years old. He turns 3 in September. He joined a new childminder beginning of December. He has settled in well and goes there happily. Today evening when I changed his nappy he asked me if I'm using my finger. I said no, just a wet wipe. He asked me a couple of times more. Then I asked him if anyone uses their finger while changing his nappy and he said the name of his child minder. I asked what she does and he touched and pulled his penis and poked with his finger around his groin. He seemed to find it hilarious. I asked him very casually a couple more times and he did the same thing but then I stopped asking because i didn't want to implant thoughts or false memories in his head by asking leading questions.

Should I be concerned? I mean I am very concerned but I also think it's likely to be just random toddler talk. Ds isn't the most reliable narrator at the best of times.

The childminder is an elderly lady who has been working with children for decades. She works together with another young childminder. If I remember right the changing area is just in the passage and not anywhere private or secluded. There has been no change in ds' behaviour recently. He's a happy little boy.

I dont know what to do. I can't imagine anything sinister is going on but what if? Can i take that risk? I'd also hate to make such a serious allegation against a most probably completely innocent person but again...what if?

For now, I'm planning to just not send him anymore and try to get a nursery place for him but that's quite difficult in my area.

Am I overreacting? Or underreacting? What else can I do? Where do I get help?

Another one who has applied creams using my fingers, obviously only to my own children. With my son I would hold his penis back to apply around the sides of his scrotum/ into his groin where the nappy sits. Also holding it away gently meant I didn’t get pee’d on!

Could you have a conversation with her? I assume that’s not recommended if abuse is suspected, but I can’t think how else you might find out if there’s a completely innocent explanation.

I used to lift up my son's penis to clean it underneath and around his testicles with cotton wool. I'd then apply cream with my fingers.

Move him if you are unhappy - but how is anyone supposed to change a nappy and keep a child clean and apply cream without touching/lifting the penis??

My instinct is telling me it's nothing and I'm overreacting but he has never said anything like this and the way he asked me several times whether I'm using my finger was odd. I never use my finger. Dh never does. We always use wet wipes or cotton.

And I think after he showed me what apparently the childminder does he said 'you do it'. I just said no, I will always only want to use a wet wipe or cotton (or something like that).

I'm a cm and I use my hands to apply creams. I also wear gloves (as well as washing hands) so no risk of cross contamination (or poo on my hands!).

That's what I'm wondering too...my son is only 3mo so I'm sure it's a bit different but when he does a poo it goes everywhere, all over his bits, everything has to be lifted and cleaned around

I don't think it sounds sinister.

Hmm yes, disposable gloves I suppose would make sense and toddler wouldn’t know. At DD’s nursery there were two staff for changes, no idea how cream was applied. Check the policy OP.

As a parent I cleaned with wipes or cotton wool but applied cream with fingers.

As a child minder I used gloves and applied cream with cotton wool

I'd ask her and you could ask to see her personal care policy

Move him please ! It's the what if that would kill me! I would be on edge every single time he went to this childminder. There are way too many childminders around to risk this being true - find another one and move him op!

I think it's incredibly unlikely that anything is untoward but if this is going to make you worry, put your ds in a nursery where there are lots of staff members observing each other. Harder to hide abuse in that sort of setting, imo

Edit- its for that exact reason we chose a nursery not a cm

I'm pretty sure they don't apply cream around his penis. But it is possible that they are moving his penis out of the way to clean around it. However they must have been cleaning him in a similar way since he joined in December and he's only today mentioned the finger thing or demonstrated touching and pulling his penis.

I dont know what to do. I can't really afford to take indefinite leave till I can find a nursery. Bit if there's even a tiny chance that something dodgy is going on...how can I take that risk?

When I think of the childminder it seems ridiculous to suspect her of anything like this.

I always used my fingers to apply sudo.

If you have concerns that you need to report it.

The first thing that came to mind is she tickles him afterwards!

I don't really like to think of my dc being tickled in that area, is that really something that people do?! Tickling maybe in the chest/tummy region, maybe,but not on the private parts surely

I’ve only ever used my fingers for nappy cream! Wouldn’t occur to me to use cotton wool.

No one in their right nind is going to tickle a child in their groin area

@TheNextFreakingThing he is 3. He is probably at the stage of discovering himself and I am sure you are aware boys get erections from simple cold air from being babies.

Personally from what you have described I wouldn't think anything sinister. I would and have moved a boys penis out the way to clean fully, especially after poo. If it's been a bit sloppy or had gone unnoticed for a few minutes then it gets into every crease and short of bathing him how else do you expect her to clean his scrotum and penis if covered in poo?

However, if you feel uneasy then you need to report it. None of us know your child or the CM.

I assume the poster meant she's tickling his ribs. And indeed when I first asked him to show me what he meant by 'using finger' he poked his finger in my side. But then the second time I asked him he touched his penis. Why would he do that?

I know toddlers often touch themselves especially during nappy changes but I haven't seen him do it in months and it was definitely related to the finger conversation. He wanted to show me what she does. He found it very funny.

it's impossible to say any one person would do but she might tickle his tummy, legs or feet while she changes him or once she's finished?

our nanny used to be really animated during nappy changes she would sing and our eldest would be giggling. She loved her nappy changes.

again cleaning and moving the penis seems a normal part of changing a boys nappy.

it's positive he's talking happily about it but agree it would be good to tactfully raise. Asking the nappy changing procedure sounds like a good way?

But what did he show you she did?

Just moving his penis I’d actually expect surely from a nappy change? Actively tugging it - less so

He's 2. That's what makes it so hard to figure out what happened. I can trust neither his words, nor his comprehension nor his recollection of what happened.

He parrots everything that others say. Eg his sister painted a picture yesterday and later he kept saying 'I painted the picture'.

I don't think this sounds untoward. I have girls, but I would always apply cream with my hands. I would do with a boy, too (unless there was a policy saying otherwise). I was a nurse in a hospital and I would always have used my (gloved) hands to apply cream, too.

I would imagine that she has moved his penis out of the way when she was cleaning him and he noticed it. It could even have felt nice because he's 3 and they suddenly become aware of everything. The CM, especially if elderly, may not think of the safeguarding concern because changing a nappy is so natural to her.

I think you should ask what their procedure for changing nappies is and go from there.

Stroking, tugging and a bit of poking.

I assume it is harder to have 2 people present when changing a nappy if you are a childminder

It just seems so unlikely that it's anything sinister but at the same time I feel shitty about taking that small risk.