Is what my toddler said serious? (trigger warning - potential child abuse)

[TheNextFreakingThing]

Ds is 2 years old. He turns 3 in September. He joined a new childminder beginning of December. He has settled in well and goes there happily. Today evening when I changed his nappy he asked me if I'm using my finger. I said no, just a wet wipe. He asked me a couple of times more. Then I asked him if anyone uses their finger while changing his nappy and he said the name of his child minder. I asked what she does and he touched and pulled his penis and poked with his finger around his groin. He seemed to find it hilarious. I asked him very casually a couple more times and he did the same thing but then I stopped asking because i didn't want to implant thoughts or false memories in his head by asking leading questions.

Should I be concerned? I mean I am very concerned but I also think it's likely to be just random toddler talk. Ds isn't the most reliable narrator at the best of times.

The childminder is an elderly lady who has been working with children for decades. She works together with another young childminder. If I remember right the changing area is just in the passage and not anywhere private or secluded. There has been no change in ds' behaviour recently. He's a happy little boy.

I dont know what to do. I can't imagine anything sinister is going on but what if? Can i take that risk? I'd also hate to make such a serious allegation against a most probably completely innocent person but again...what if?

For now, I'm planning to just not send him anymore and try to get a nursery place for him but that's quite difficult in my area.

Am I overreacting? Or underreacting? What else can I do? Where do I get help?

I would speak to your childminder and tell her exactly what he said, hopefully she will be able to reassure you. If not then maybe you would feel more comfortable with him in a Nursery environment- you could possibly request 2 adults always present directly during changing.

By that age they have often found their genitals and discovered what feels nice to poke/pull/rub.

Never occurred to me to use anything other than fingers

I'm a CM. never used cotton wool to apply cream. A clean finger or more recently with gloves. If she's been childminding for years I expect it's just she put the cream on with her finger. And with the changing area in a hall and with an assistant about it's probably nothing sinister.

But if it is sinister you won't know from raising it with her. If the trust is gone the trust is gone.

Just be sure to pay your notice period if you move him.

Reading your OP I assumed he was describing applying cream.

I have 20 years experience working in childcare and have never considered using cotton wool to apply sudocrem to be honest!

I've also moved many penises to clean poo.

If you are worried I would definitely tell the childminder what he said and see what she says though.

I expect he's noticed it feels different if she isn't using cotton wool like you do, and he probably fiddled more once his hand was on his penis because.. well, because his hand was on his penis!

But I can completely understand being concerned about that slight chance. I would probably tell her that he kept saying she poked him "..do you know what he is referring to? I think it might have helped if I could have explained what you were doing"

I wouldnt feel comfortable leaving him there.I dont like the sound of that at all.
Personally think gauze or cotton balls should be used as well as gloves in a professional setting to create a barrier and a little more dignity and less intrusion for the recipient,whether a child or adult.
Completely different when its your own baby of course.
I know I wouldnt want to feel someones hands directly on my private areas if I ever needed intimate care.

Off course you can use finger every staff member in the nursery I work in use there finger wearing gloves off course.

I'd just change, it's not worth the risk. It may not be anything, but just change childminder

I always apply cream with a finger. Does he have cream there when you pick him up? There's usually some residue left

I never use my finger. Dh never does. We always use wet wipes or cotton.

So he noticed the difference because it was something he’d not experienced before. That’s why he asked you specifically if you were using your finger - because he’s also asked the CM I expect, when he felt the difference. It is entirely possible he quite liked the sensation of skin on skin (finger) vs wet wipe/cotton ball for cream. That’s not sinister in itself.

I bet if you mentioned it to the CM
they’d say he’s also asked them - and she might have found it an odd question if she’s never considered applying cream with a cotton wool ball. I’d never considered that as an application method before reading this thread, and it seems I’m not alone.

I could have asked the CM I used this sort of thing. If you feel you can’t, then that’s good enough reason to move him.

I always use my finger to apply cream (so do any family members I’ve ever seen apply it), I presumed everyone did. I’d also be expecting them to move his penis to clean under/ around it which is what I do. It could just be this he is describing.

Sometimes on his bum. Never around his penis. I don't think they apply cream there but they might move his penis or pull it to clean if his poo has gone up.

The more I think about it the less likely it seems that anything sinister is going on. Mainly because what are the chances? I'm biased of course because it's a woman but according to the statistics that does make her less likely, doesn't it? Or highly unlikely. And the changing area is in a very public place and there's always at least two childminders.

Or maybe I don't want to believe it because I can't afford to take so much leave again and I don't want to move him again when he's finally happy and I don't really want to send him to nursery.

I dont know what to do. If we continue I'll definitely ask about how they change him exactly. But can we continue? The risk of him being abused is miniscule. But if he is then the impact and damage will be massive won't it?

Whst would you do?

None of that is normal. At all. Even if you are applying creams to the willy tip having pulled the foreskin back which isn’t happening as you have said only cream for the bum.

I've what's applied nappy with my fingers to both boy and girl children with my fingers. Both my own children, nieces and nephew and the many children i have looked after in the past. Putting it on with cotton wool is both wasteful and means it just doesn't spread our properly. I've never known anyone who regularly changes napped to do that tbh.
I would mice a little boys willy to clean around it ( ie point it upwards or to the sides) particularly if they had got either really wet through or poo had squashed all around and I wanted to ensure they were properly clean.

If be cautious. I might get a doll for him and nappy equipment (ime little boys seen to really like a doll and one of those cheap fold up buggies until they are about 4 years is anyway) and he can play nappy changing. It will be obvious if he's found anything Betty strange. He can tie play a day at childminders house maybe. Just a thought. Won't hurt looking for nursery but if he's happy and it's innocent might be a shame to disrupt.
Kids do day tamasha is/ unbreakable things too my 6 year old advised me of tickilng her nunny((vulva area). I was actually stroking her stomach by her belly button while she was in bed going to sleep too try and soothe her off to sleep so commentary can definitely be a bit off too and children don't realise the consequences if certain things being said inaccurately..
Very stressful for you. How you name to resolve things.

@TheNextFreakingThing PLEASE don't assume abuse can't happen because the person is "nice" or "old" or whatever. Abusers come in various guises and are usually not what you'd expect them to be.

You must do whatever you think best with the information, just don't fall into that trap ⬆️

Speaking from personal childhood abuse.

This is tough, but from everything you've said I think you should just ask her. Ask her if she has a "nappy change policy"; until fairly recently, childminders had written policies on everything so it's likely she'll have something even if it's from a few years ago. I'm sure she would prefer to have a conversation with you about what happens and what equipment/gloves/cream etc she uses. Hopefully it'll put your mind at ease, and prevent you from having to change settings/upset things if everything is otherwise well. I'm sure you'll get a gut feeling as to her reaction and how prepared she is to discuss it with you. The child's wellbeing is priority no 1, but being a childminder is a very vulnerable role, and I would always say trust your instincts in the first instance. It sounds to me like you're curious that she is obviously doing something very different to how you deal with nappy changes, and it could be that simple. Hopefully her reaction will reassure you. If anything feels "off", even slightly, about her reaction then I would absolutely report it, but do give her a chance first.

Edit: spelling

I've had a few poonami situations where it has gone literally everywhere and have had to move their penis or smooth out the scrotum to clean poo from the wrinkles. Possibly would account for him finding it so funny too as I would usually amuse them by dramatically proclaiming it the biggest poo EVER, yuck, its gone everywhere etc etc.

Do they realistically have the opportunity to behave inappropriately with him? You say the changing area is quite open so no real privacy. Hard to judge on the word of a toddler really. I'd just keep an eye out for anything else suspicious.

Oh OP, I really feel for you, it’s sounds like such a tricky situation to be in. You’ve handled it so well infront of your son, despite hearing something quite troubling.

Do you speak with any of the other parents who use this childminder? I too would be reluctant to send my child back after hearing that but perhaps the other parents may beable to give you some further insight if they’ve heard this from their children too.

Try not to worry, but you’re right to take this seriously. I know you’re already mentioned it a few times to your son, however, perhaps tomorrow if you can bring this up gently again, instead of talking about him directly, perhaps create a game where he changes a nappy on a toy. Children usually reenact situations during roleplay/drawing etc. Also have the sudocream etc there too so he can show you, but it less personalised way.

If it helps, when my daughter was 2 she told me her keyworker ‘hit her hand’. Nursery had a full investigation (sounds more dramatic than it is) only to turn out that her keyworker high-fived my daughter 😫.

I haven't read full thread, but she might be using ppe for nappy changes

You could ask whether child minder has had any trouble with his nappy changes and applying cream. Say DS talks about being tickled, ask if he is too squirmy for her?

Sometimes children do instigate silliness themselves so I really hope that is what is going on.
For me, I would speak non threateningly to child minder, as above, and I would monitor closely. Stay alert but not alarmed.

This. I've cared for 5 boys and also never used cotton wool. Not on my own dd either. I think you need to ask her you will know from her reaction if it is innocent or not. If you really feel this could be sinister and you just move him without bringing it up I think that says a lot.

If I truly thought my childminder was doing something how could I move my child not question it or report it possibly putting other children in danger. If I really thought there was a chance I wouldn't be able to live with myself possibly letting others be in harms way.

Why do you use cotton wool or such on your own child OP? It's quite unusual. You bathe them etc, surely with your hands?

I didn't think you were supposed to use cotton wool on intimate areas as it xan break up and leave traces, I could well be mistaken on that though. All areas will need to be cleaned (especially after a poo) which will involve touching them briefly in order to do so. It doesn't sound overly concerning to me, but I think you should feel free to ask about the process and where it happens. Let them know he's noticing things and see what their response is.

I imagine he’s now at an age where he can feel the warmth of the childminders’s fingers when she applies and possibly rubs in the cream whereas he’s used to feeling cold cream only? I imagine warm hands on his skin feel nicer?

I only ever used my fingers to apply creams.