Is what my toddler said serious? (trigger warning - potential child abuse)

[TheNextFreakingThing]

Ds is 2 years old. He turns 3 in September. He joined a new childminder beginning of December. He has settled in well and goes there happily. Today evening when I changed his nappy he asked me if I'm using my finger. I said no, just a wet wipe. He asked me a couple of times more. Then I asked him if anyone uses their finger while changing his nappy and he said the name of his child minder. I asked what she does and he touched and pulled his penis and poked with his finger around his groin. He seemed to find it hilarious. I asked him very casually a couple more times and he did the same thing but then I stopped asking because i didn't want to implant thoughts or false memories in his head by asking leading questions.

Should I be concerned? I mean I am very concerned but I also think it's likely to be just random toddler talk. Ds isn't the most reliable narrator at the best of times.

The childminder is an elderly lady who has been working with children for decades. She works together with another young childminder. If I remember right the changing area is just in the passage and not anywhere private or secluded. There has been no change in ds' behaviour recently. He's a happy little boy.

I dont know what to do. I can't imagine anything sinister is going on but what if? Can i take that risk? I'd also hate to make such a serious allegation against a most probably completely innocent person but again...what if?

For now, I'm planning to just not send him anymore and try to get a nursery place for him but that's quite difficult in my area.

Am I overreacting? Or underreacting? What else can I do? Where do I get help?

What a terrible situation you're in. I'm so sorry!

Unfortunately, Vanessa George's victims parents would also have thought, "but she's a woman", sadly, although rare, there are still cases where women are sexually abusing children. We are biased about women child predators, but they exist.

We live in an age now that we're hyper aware of abuse to children and see time again that people who want to abuse children put themselves in situations to have access to children. And this is a very small percentage, however a percentage none the less.

Whilst it's a very slight chance there is anything at all here sinister, and it is so small, it's still not impossible.

I think once the idea of abuse is in your mind, you're never going to feel comfortable sending him. Even if it is extremely unlikely.

I think it's absolutely nothing to worry about, I have worked in care settings and cared for everyone from newborn baby's to people in their 100s, never used cotton wool to apply cream, always gloves. I have 3 DS also and I suspect the childminder is just cleaning your DS thoroughly and keeping him entertained during it. As you say, what 2 year old is a reliable narrator?

You're honestly in a terrible situation and no guarantee that your decisions you make forward are the correct ones.

There really isn't a solution of simplicity to this, you have my sympathy x

Another who uses finger to apply sudocreme- cotton ball ends up with fluffy bits. Sounds like she's applying it around his testicles with her finger. If you're using happy though, either have a conversation of find someone new.

Hmmmm… I think your instincts are right to keep him back…

If my daughter said that to me I’d be massively concerned, OP.

Could be nothing, but then again… why is he talking about it?

Because he asked you several times. Just because he finds it funny doesn’t mean it’s probably nothing. Not all abusers violently abuse you know? Not saying that’s what’s happening here, but, he is asking you.

How about asking to observe while she changes nappy? Either just outright and confidently or finding some reason I can't think of at 3 in the morning. Her reaction could give you the assurance you need. You could also see if she does use a finger, and if he brings it up again you will be able to see what she says about it, too.

If she won't do it that's enough for me to pull him out and report.

You could also then say, can I ask that you use cotton wool to apply cream as that's what we do at home.

Two thoughts
1
what you are describing raises absolutely no flags and sounds "totally standard" to me.

Applying sudocrem with cotton wool is just alien / weird to me. I didn't even know this was a thing! And it wouldn't occur to me... it just seems such a... prissy? Santised? Weird? way to do it. You do it the other way round so the " other way" prob seems super weird to you... I wonder if this is part of your question mark.

2
That said....Once the bell is rung you cant unring it.

You suspect something untoward....
even if it meant getting it wrong, i would HAVE to err on the side of caution and safe guard my children.
So even though I'd say nothing has happened I'd still have to move him.... because how can you not?

Nothing that your son said sounded untoward.

We had to lift my son's penis to clean the poo and we also had to clean his testicles.

We have always applied a thin layer of cram ON his testicles, because when he had nappy rash, sometimes his testicles were affected as well, so we wanted to protect the whole area.

I’ve never applied cream with cotton wool and would think that would leave small fibres behind. The finger comment is most likely because they’re applying cream with their fingers. I would be checking though.

I would raise it with her under the guise of checking about the cream application and ask her out of interest how does she apply it, as he seems to notice the difference. You will know from her answer.

Nothing you have said would concern me in the slightest, I think your toddler is experiencing the first signs of body autonomy and this is normal. He is comparing and recognising differences.

You are right to take this seriously, and to be certain. To be so careful. If you are both happy and comfortable with your CM I would be reluctant to change her immediately.

I have never used cotton wool or tissue either. Just clean hands.

I use my finger to apply cream to my own children. I would never, and registered childminders/school/professionals are never supposed to use their finger. It's a huge safeguarding issue.

I'd be concerned.

For those who use cotton wool, don’t you find you lose half the tub to the cotton wool itself? I recall sudocreme as one where it was really hard to transfer it from the cotton to the skin, and in order to do so you had to get a really really thick layer of it on the cotton to transfer the required amount to the skin - and the other half remained firmly stuck to the cotton!

But does a 2-3yo have the fine motor skills to replicate those distinct actions? Or did he just put his hand down there and just do whatever?

My 2.5 year old DS giggles sometimes when I apply his yellow nappy cream,
when he gets a rash sometimes around his scrotum. I always use clean fingers. I think it’s likely the difference he is feeling if you always use cotton balls but you are right be to concerned. I would maybe bring it up casually with her and judge the reaction.

It doesn’t sound wierd to me. I also use fingers to apply sudoctem to anywhere that requires it!

I'd say it's because it feels different to use a (gloved?) finger when changing, putting cream etc than if you use cotton. It maybe tickles more or something? So he's just mentioning it that way. He seems happy so that's positive. I guess speak to them and just ask them how they do changes, apply cream etc. Little boys often find talking about, poking, pulling their penises hilarious so that might just be him joking about when he did that?

Most people use their finger to apply creams. Putting Sudocrem on with a cotton wool ball is bizarre!!

I believe the NSPCC have a helpline that parents can ring to talk through any concerns about potential abuse. They will be able to give you advice as to what steps you need to take. I feel that may be the best thing to do as they will have far more knowledge on this subject than any posters could offer.

I'd call NSPCC for advice. I wouldn't want to risk something happening to another child. You are removing your child from their care just in case so you don't trust your gut enough to leave him there. I therefore wouldn't trust my gut enough to say nothing.

If he acted out stroking his penis then yep I’d have him out of there quickly and in to a nursery. It may just be a misunderstanding and it may be just how they do the nappy change (I used fingers to apply cream to mine). However it’s not worth the risk is it? I used nurseries because I didn’t like this, then when mine were older moved childminder because my son didn’t like her husband. I think we have to be so careful as parents.

Another one that has always used fingers. Three boys myself and as a former nanny.

Could the "tugging" be that he wriggles whilst she's touching his penis to clean round it (as it feels different to what he's used to) so it pulls a little? Although I wouldn't use her age/experience to rule out any wrongdoing, I would assume this might account for her being extra thorough and 'hands on'.

NSPCC can give you some advice without forcing you to report anything.

You can contact the NSPCC Helpline by calling 0808 800 5000 or emailing [email protected].

Yea I'm similar to this, I use fingers to sort of make sure I'm getting in the creases and skin folds with the wipe and lift up the penis to clear underneath as it seems to get sort squished in with the bit underneath and gets a rash under if I don't, maybe a toddler would show that as poking and prodding? It's concerning it was notable enough to a toddler to mention it. Mine have never commented on nursery changing then unless I specifically ask " did you do a poo at nursery" and even then it's just "yea, Sarah took my poo poo away mummy"'

My daughter started finding it really ticklish around this age when I would put cream on or wash her bum in the bath. I agree it's likely cream, especially as he's finding it funny and not distressing.

If I were you then I would ask her how she applies cream so it's clear. If it's bothering you then you could say to her that you are starting to teach him about body boundaries and to don't want to give mixed messages about touching of private parts, so could she please start using cotton wool to apply cream.