Do you do things/activities as a family all together?

[staryeyed]

If so what do you do and how old are your children?

I agree with fivecandles, all parents should be able to say no sometimes. If an older child says they don't want to come shopping/swimming/walking/visiting boring Aunt Helen then that's fine they can stay at home on their own but a three year old can't stay home alone so they have to just fall in line. I have four children and life would be totally impossible if all four were barking out their orders.

It saddens me to think that anything I've said on this thread could possibly be considered to be 'extreme'. Again, it explains a lot about the world today if a parent is not allowed to establish and reinforce boudaries in their own house. I kind of thought that went with the territory. I think it's reasonable that my children should respect my and dp's values while they live in my house and are supported by me and my dp. I would not expect a friend or visitor to smoke in my house for example so I certainly would not allow my children to do this. But if you read back over my posts I have said many times that I AM patient, calm, respectful and loving with my children. I DO involve them in decision making if appropriate. I do communicate with them all the time and explain the reasons behind my decision. I don't think there's anybody here who would disagree with those principles. All I'm saying is any parent who allows their child to 'negotiate' everything and make all their own choices (regardless of how selfish and irrational these may be) is mad or stupid or naive and is not actually doing their child any favours. Is this really so 'extreme'?

Look Anna, I'm getting a bit fed up with your hypocrisy. YOur whole argument here rests on your saying that every decision made in your house is a consensus between you and your children and that you never make choices on your children's behalf but this is rubbish. You CHOSE to take your child to see Atonement. YOU CHOSE that she would eat foie gras. Not only are these uncaring and inapproriate choices IMHO but they are CHOICES you made on your dd's BEHALF.

What is extreme is making your mind up on an issue (for yourself) and then expecting your child to follow your example without being allowed to express his/her POV and you listening to it carefully and being prepared to review your own judgement in the light of your child's feelings.

One of the very best parts of parenthood, IMVHO, is the opportunity it provides to gain fresh insights on the world and to revise one's own ideas

And like you I make choices on behalf of my children. I try very, very hard to make sure that these choices are good ones and that they will make my dds happy and confident and successful and safe. And I explain these choices to my dds. It is very rare that my dds question my choices. They trust that I will make the right choices for them because I am their mother.

d'y know I bet you are both fab mums with lovely kids.

Anna HAVE YOU READ A WORD I HAVE SAID (yes, I am shouting). Where have I ever said or implied that I don't allow my kids to express their POV??????

And since when is it 'extreme' for a parent to decide when her children will go to bed, or what they eat, or what school they go to?

Certainly no more 'extreme' than deciding on your child's behalf that she will watch Atonement and eat foie gras at THREE YEARS OLD.

Anna took her 3 year old DD to see Atonement? Is that for real?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I echo fivecandles post. My DDs have grown up with rules, values and boundaries in my house - as far as I am concerned that gave them the security and confidence to grow and gain confidence to be on the verge of flying the nest. I know they wouldn't have had it any other way and nor would I.

There are certain things that are not allowed in this house and are not, and never would be open to negotiation, and there is nothing wrong with that.

My DD2 had a desire to have your tummy button pierced from, what I considered, was too young an age (can't remember... something like 13 or 14!) Someone earlier said with a tongue piercing, if her DD had the money and wanted to do it, it would be her decision and she could go and do it. I'm sorry... but why not say no? They may be too young to make a rational decision. Why can't Mum say No? BTW my DD2 DID have her tummy button pierced at age 15 with my approval. I took her somewhere safe and clean and it looks great. At age 13 I said No, No Way but I will think about it in the future but this is not open to negotiation at this point in time. What is wrong with that?

I think all this negotiation malarkey might work at age 3, as in Anna's case, but you are setting yourself up for a fall when they are older.

How dare you suggest that I do not listen to my kids or change my judgements in the light of their feelings????? I do this all the time. But listening and respecting my kids does not mean I need to allow them input into every decision or cannot have the final say. I listened to them when they wanted to stay in the park and build birdsnests last night and I listened to them when they asked for a second helping of ice cream. ANd then I said NO (very calmly, and politely FYI) What is the problem with this? You need to apologise for coming out with this stupid, patronising crap.

The HonEnid
I think you are right.
I think it has been said on here several times ( at least once by me) that actually we all parent very similarly. The only difference is how much negotiation and what are the non-negotiables.
The only reason I can see that this has reached the umpty hundreth post is that Anna persists in trying to take the moral high ground and accuses everyone else of being brutish.
I think that has also caused some of the posts to become more 'definite' when it is of course a movable feast dependent on the child and the circumstances.

Five candles. There is a thread about virtual boxing if you feel the need I'll see you there. If you are going to repeatedly beat you head against a dull object it may as well be fun !

Yes Swedes anna took her 3 year old to see Atonement and then is saying I am 'extreme' because I tell my kids when to go to bed!!!

Good advice pagwatch.

fivecandles - it's quite boring rehashing old threads (that you weren't on, as far as I remember) but of course my daughter chooses to eat foie gras (you think I force feed her?), of course she chooses to go to the cinema (she was desperate to go, btw). And had she hated the film/b we would have got up and gone (all this is on the old thread which I am bored to tears with btw).

As I have also said, foie gras is bog standard food in this country and Atonement was a film with a U/PG rating (open to all). So my daughter was only having normal experiences that her peers would/could have - and that I think are enriching.

It is stupid beyond belief to suggest that the choices you have made for your daughter are actually her own.

Whereas obviously the choices I have made for my children are 'extreme', 'bossy', 'brutal' and so on.

At least the choices I make on behalf of my children are good ones and ones in their interests.

Atonement... what a ridiculous idea to take a 3 year old to see it.. Are you saying she was desperate to go to the cinema, or desperate to see Atonement? It honestly sounds like your DD rules your house... if she wants to go to the cinema, she goes. She decides whether she is catching the bus, train or metro every morning before school. She chooses what she eats (and when probably) and what time she goes to bed. The world has gone mad....

And I am ROFL at the idea that your dd WHO CANNOT READ said to you one day, 'Oh mummy please take me to see Atonement. I am so interested in watching a story about child rape and warfare and afterwards please can we have some foie gras because I love to eat extended goose's liver'.

fivecandles - why do you get so emotional if you are so sure of your choices?

When I say that I involve my children in decision making when it is appopriate what I mean is that they I let them have their say in things that they understand and can make a genuine choice about. When they are too young to understand (i.e. when they are too young to understand e.g. a film about child rape and atonement or about the contents of their dinner then I make those choices for them in the sense that I choose that they will not see or eat these things until they are old enough to understand what they are).

When you say you involve your children in every decision that affect them you are actually a hypocrite.

Atonement is not a film about child rape and warfare. It is a film about the impact of a child's incomplete understanding of the adult world, the failure of the adults around that child to understand that child's emotional life and the resulting tragic consequences.

Anna I am admittedly quite emotional not because of my choices (which I am confident about) but because you have suggested that I am amongst other things as a parent 'extreme' 'brutal' that I don't listen to my kids or respect their POV etc.

I am emotional about this because it is incredibly offensive

I am also emotional that you have taken your child to see a film like Atonement and get her to eat foie gras then suggest that I have got my parenting wrong.

rofl

so waaayyy more appropriate for a three years old then

But, Anna, your DD would not understand the film... all that claptrap about the failure of adults to understand a child's emotional life etc... your DD can't comprehend that. Did you explain it to her in those terms?

Your DD can only take in the images the film portrays and those images are war images and sexuality. Why on earth would you expose your 3yo to that?

Atonement, a three year old, desperate to go to the cinema? I can't bear to look away from this thread now.

It is a film which hinges on child rape and also involves images of sex, warfare, death, imprisonment and suffering which IMHO are not appropriate for a 3 year old child.

Really that would be none of my business (though I am forced to feel sorry for your child) except that you are on here lecturing everyone else about their parenting and in fact telling them that they should not be making decisions on behalf of their children when YOU are actually doing this except you are clearly making some CRAP decisions on behalf of yours.