I’ve reported my son to the police

[Ally190]

Long post so I apologise in advance.

My son will be 13 this year, has I’ve always believed a good life with his dad and I. Last year he got in trouble at school, then him and his friends beat a kid up. I cancelled his birthday (he beat the kid up the day before his birthday), no gifts or weekend away like planned. He stole money from his dad and bought sweets, I took his Xbox away and grounded him. He took scissors to school and a teacher got cut accidentally, I took away his privileges as a consequence. He never hands in homework and although the teachers say he is a nice kid he doesn’t do enough of the work but they think he is capable but choosing not to. He lies and is disrespectful all of the time. Yesterday we found out that he has taken £180 from his uncles wallet. His uncle passed away and was cremated only 3 weeks ago. He is buying junk food with the money. I’ve taken his TV, games etc and left him with little (except books, pen and paper) in his room to keep him busy. I’m giving him a packed lunch for school because I can’t trust him with money. He shows no remorse or behavioural change and was actually disrespectful to me last night - to the point I lost my temper, grabbed him by the collar and told him I hated him. I feel sick about it today and can’t believe I let my anger win but I did and I need to accept that. It’s not the first time he has stolen money so I’ve reported him to the police. I try so hard to be a good mum and I’ve spoken to the GP, the school, CAHMS etc and they all say they can’t help because he doesn’t meet their criteria. He seems remorseless and if I’m honest he seems blank behind the eyes at times. I know I’m a shit mum but feel free to remind me of it, I know I’ve posted so I will take what comes. I’m also doing my best, overwhelmed, without a support system and losing grip on myself, my son and who I am. I don’t know what to do next but hating myself is a foregone conclusion at this stage, I atleast hope I can do something to help him. Thanks if you got this far. X

My first reaction here is why does he needs the money. I suggest he's got into drugs and is either wanting it to pay or paying off a debtor hes done something silly and is being blackmailed

If you have squashed his other means of obtaining money then stealing is his only option

Does he and you have someone he can talk to and approach why he needs it?

He needs a calm non judgmental talk. Only rule is no raised voices only 1 talking at a time

Hes in trouble and trying to get out of ot

The problem you have OP is that you have a child who seems to be being very led by his friends for whatever reason and the more you punish him at home and tell him you hate him the more you push him towards those friends. He's stealing money by the sounds of it so that he can keep up with them, paying for junk food to all eat together. He's lost connection with you which is why he's blank eyed and doesn't care what you say and he is doing whatever he feels he needs to to keep connection with them.

My priority would be building back that bond with him so he actually cares what you think of him and listens to what you have to say. He needs to know that you don't hate him, you love him with all your heart but that you hate the way he is behaving and you're really worried about him. You need to try to get to the bottom of what's going on. Why does he feel he needs to steal the money and what's he using it for? This is only going to get worse the older he gets so I'd do everything you can to get him the help he needs OP. He's a bright boy you say - does he know what job he wants? Could you start looking into his interests and get him involved in things that will help him get into uni/work? He needs positive things to fill his time and keep him away from these friends. He needs a lot of time, effort and support I think to try to get him back on the right track.

My one other worry would be drugs OP and that that is where the money could be going - is that a possibility?

Sorry did I miss something... where is dad?

I’m currently 2 teenagers in, and both went through the “blank stare/ what’s your problem/ no remorse stage.” IME, it lasted 18 months to 2 years. Sounds to me like you’re parenting right- there are consequences, and even if he’s hardwired to see these as OTT right now, if he’s anything like my DS18 or DD16 in 2 years he’ll look back incredulously and say, “I can’t believe I thought that was ok.”
I know that’s little help now…
If he’s using the money for junk food with friends he may be insecure. No quick fix for that one, but keep praising when it’s possible, keep listening, and be there for him when he’s ready.
I’m not sure what you want from the GP or CAMHS? I used to do child and adolescent A&E mental health and don’t see anything clinical in what you posted ( not saying there isn’t more you haven’t mentioned).
Hang in there. You aren’t a bad mum.

I agree. There might be something diagnosable but there might not be. I have had my own experience of dealing with a difficult teen and recognise the blank stare which I find unnerving, it really feels like there is a complete empathy bypass and they really don’t care.
I’ve also done some less than ideal parenting over the years in terms of losing my temper. I do always say sorry when I’ve shouted or said something I regret but I also cut myself some slack, I’m human, I’m trying my best, it’s really hard at times.
What seems to work with my DS is praise where you can - the shortest supermarket queue skill is a brilliant example of having to reach a bit at times - but it does help. I also have tried spending time with him, I insisted he spend an afternoon with me recently, he didn’t want to and moaned a lot but we ended up having a nice time, we went somewhere for lunch (where he wouldn’t be seen by any friends) and mostly drove around. He was actually lovely and we had a good chat.
I don’t want to minimise your problems and I don’t think there is a quick solution. It seems like you are doing everything right but I would try and get support where you can, school, social care, police/youth offending.
I would definitely cancel a birthday celebration if my son had beaten someone up the day before and I also think you are right to call the police. Good luck OP.

@Howmanysleepsnow i just feel like maybe there is something going on I don’t know about. He seems to act out and when caught will lie repeatedly, changing his story to the point it’s completely changed from the beginning but will be adamant it’s true. He has always had the blank stare and lack of remorse, since he was very little really but I just assumed it was how he was. He shows no empathy, no emotion or understanding. He will say things to me like “oh I should just be dead then” like he wants a reaction and is manipulating me to get it. Today he was at the door with his friends, I went to tell him to come in as he is grounded. Heard him say to his friend “I’m too tired to speak because I sha**ed your mum last night and she wasn’t complaining”. I just don’t recognise this version of my boy anymore.

@MrsGalloway thank you. I’ve got the police coming this Tuesday and I intend to phone the school tomorrow to request an appointment with the head teacher/guidance teacher. I have apologised and told him I don’t hate him but that I hate his behaviour and I need to take it seriously before he does something bad which I can’t protect him from.

@anniz91 dad and I are currently battling through this together as best we can. We are both devastated and feeling lost.

@itsmyp4rty i don’t think it’s drugs. He seems to spend the money on junk food, I’ve caught him eating pizza in his room with his friends recently but he told me his friends dad gave them money for a pizza and I just believed it. He’s had the same group of friends for years and often they are in his room playing on the Xbox so I don’t understand what’s changed. His behaviour seems to be escalating in such a scary way and more and more often it involves violence and stealing. He goes to a youth club twice a week and the boys brigade once a week so has things to do plus a couple of lunchtime clubs at school including homework and dungeons and dragons club. He has the same group of friends and they all seem the same but he doesn’t. I have apologised and told him I hate his behaviour but not him.

@Ally190

Please ignore the comments made by MrsTerryPratchett. This poster mentions working or volunteering in youth offending and seems to imagine this makes her 'one size fits all' style of parenting correct across the board, (as well as making a rather strange claim in support of her views).

This may be a bit confusing to some, and perhaps unconventional, but this comment is written by our son's father! (Me). I have just read through all of the replies so far (Just pretend for a few minutes that this is dadsnet?), as my wife told me a few hours ago that she had posted on here, and I thank you all for your concerns, suggestions and comments, most of which are positive and helpful. Now for a bit of background and context. My wife (Ally190) and I have been together continuously for almost 14 years now and we are married, have always lived together and are very much still in love. I was "amused" at some of the assumptions that I was estranged or absent! Neither of us have any social issues or addictions. We are cash poor most of the time (not significant to the issue here) even though we both work extremely hard, but we have a relationship which is the envy of most who know us, and that includes the relationship that each of us has with our son. He never sees us fight or argue, as we don't! I would also like to take this opportunity to state, without question, that my wife is one of the best mothers that I have ever known or witnessed. Her relationship with our (currently) troublesome son, and mine with him, are very strong indeed and we come as a three person family package. He is of well above average intelligence and is extremely engaging and charming, such that you would never sense any of this trouble should you meet him. There is no way that he is engaged in drugs or debt. He spends as much time with me as with his mum, and lots of time with us both together. Our home is filled with laughter, and mutual sarcasm, all of the time. He is essentially the perfect kid, then he does things like this behind our backs. Nothing is for "attention" as he never thinks that he will be caught out, and he lies when he is. Thank you for your suggestions that we might want to keep him busy, but he already engages in so many things besides his games (which we try to limit) and his friends.........all of whom he has known since nursery school and who all live very locally. Not one is a "bad influence" and he does not see any of his new friends in P1 out of school as they live in different catchment areas. He does not have a mobile phone and does not really ask for one. He is a very popular and well liked kid and has strong bonds with his close friends. He bakes and cooks a lot with both of us, he loves reading and always has books, he draws and builds models and is a bit of a talented young car mechanic. I parent equally during the week with my wife (Yes, I may be a bit "soft" at times, but I am a bit older) but he and I spend at least every Sunday together rebuilding and restoring an old classic car, which was bought for him and it is intended to be his first car when he learns to drive. He loves doing this. He has been brought up in adult company too and can engage with anyone, young or old. So you see, he has plenty to do and to look forward to, he has travelled round the world with us all his life and has seen places that few kids get to see, he has the BEST mum in the world and has looks, friends and intelligence. Even I can't understand what is going on here and I share my wife's frustration. I fully support the decision to call in the police in the hope that it is the scare that he needs, and our decision to remove treats has always been correct too. Keep the suggestions coming, and thank you all. I love you and will always support you Ally190. xxx

Signs of a teenage sociopath

A sociopath, clinically known as a person diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder (ASPD), is characterized by a long-term pattern of exploiting, manipulating, violating, and/ or overtly disregarding the rights of others without any remorse. Antisocial personality disorder is one of ten mental health disorders listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5) that is categorized under personality disorder. Young people with antisocial personality disorder often engage in unlawful activity, behave cruelly towards others as they lack empathy and often struggle with substance and/ or alcohol abuse. This can greatly inhibit a young person’s ability to properly functioning in his or her daily life. Although it can surface at any point in one’s life, according to the Mayo Clinic, antisocial personality disorder most commonly manifests before reaching age fifteen.

Risk FactorsThe precise reason behind why a young person develops antisocial personality disorder remains unknown. However, the Encyclopedia of Children’s Health note the following to be contributing risk factors that could increase one’s susceptibility for developing ASPD:

• Genetics and family history
• Negative and/ or negligent parenting practices
• Unstable, violent and/ or tumultuous home life
• School and neighborhood environment

Interestingly this article also mentioned ADHD as it can sometimes contribute to antisocial behaviour

An article published in the National Library of Medicine (NIH) indicates that neurological problems and hyperactivity could also contribute to antisocial behavior, as it asserts that young people with ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) were found to be at greater risk of developing antisocial behavior.

Signs and SymptomsEvery teenager is different and has the propensity to exhibit a wide range of symptoms in relation to antisocial personality disorder. A young person that exhibits three or more of the following signs could be struggling with antisocial personality disorder, as provided by Medical News Today:

• Deceitfulness
• Theft
• Abusive and/ or harmful aggression towards animals and/ or people
• Destruction of property
• Serious violation of rules

He seems to tick a lot of boxes.
It appears that both of you are trying your best to* *provide a stable and loving family for him but sometimes genetic factors can be very strong. The family history seem to indicate that he might have some genetic predisposition for delinquent? behaviour.

There is also a case of a generational trauma and you might not be aware that you are repeating some mistakes of your parents/ or your own trauma may impact child

He is going to be ok. He appears to have two parents who care deeply in not only nurturing his physical needs but his life long needs too.

I agree that you are addressing fairly his actions with consequences and following through. I think it's appropriate to call the police as his behaviour is stepping up.

I think the next step is to understand why he is making so many bad choices currently.

My SS is going through a phase of terrible decision making and we have determined most of it is because he is motivated by self interest. He wants to play Xbox until midnight so he will etc.

We have had to go back to the drawing board and come up with family values which each fortnight we talk about how we used them in our lives. Sometimes there is reward other times not, but it's all about trying to rewire his instinct to make a decision based on selfishness and think of others. We have been doing this for two years and he has improved, it's helped the family bond and question our own decision making!

You seem like a formidable team, I doubt very much he will fall through the cracks. I hope this helps!

I'm going to go against the grain and hazard a guess that he's just going through an especially rebelious phase. Sometimes kids strike harder when their family life is very secure. My mam and dad were so liberal and right on that at 12 I also became quite ridiculous in my behaviour - I set fire to a phone box, stole small things like nail varnish from woolworths/ truanted, stole alcohol, and generally was an uncommunicative, rude and mouthy pain in the arse, 12-14 yrs I'd say.
They never found out about any of this, but if they had I imagine they would be going spare just like you are.
I didn't go off the rails - I continued to be a risk taker and overly confident but it hasn't actually done me any harm and I have had a great and close relationship with my parents my whole life. If only they knew the things I used to get up to!