DS2 punched someone.

[Mumof2NDers]

DS2 is 16 and has ADHD. He is a black and white thinker. He hates what he perceives to be any form of injustice. A boy he knows made a shocking, cruel joke about DS1’s best friend who died in very tragic circumstances. DS1 saw red and punched him in the face. I had a long chat with him about it not being reasonable to solve things with his fists, one punch kills and the possibility of being spoken to by the police. He’s not sorry and doesn’t regret it at all. Not sure what else to do/say. He also got into trouble in college for threatening someone who had called an older student with autism a spastic. I’m really hoping he will learn to manage himself better as he matures but I do worry about repercussions or him getting into serious trouble. Aside from this he’s a caring and loving lad.

So what's your suggestion beyond reasonable conversation and education, exactly? We're all waiting...

Looking at it the other way - a young person makes what they think is a joke, which does not land well. Maybe they have their own shit going on (home life issues, neurodiversities) which means they say unpleasant things to get a reaction? They then get a punch in the face. Although its not exactly lovely behaviour the person who made the "joke" isn't a worse person than your thug of a DS.

If my child was punched for making a joke I'd be calling the police and making a statement. The replies on this thread suggesting the DS was some sort of victim and the joker had it coming are ridiculous.

You can't punch people because you don't like their idea of humour.

Funny enough I have had the opposite experience working in a school. There is nothing more humiliating than getting a punch in the gob for being an arsehole. Goes round like wildfire. Especially at that age.
Mocking the dead to someone who is grieving wouldn’t go down well either with most normal students.
Truth be known I would rather be the mother of the puncher than the mother of some dragged up little scrote who takes glee in willfully trying to antagonise someone in the worst possible way they can.

A joke about the tragic death of a young man? Not my idea of humour! But whatever. I’m not saying he deserved the punch either btw.

Or he'll get arrested and jailed.

Do you know if it was an issue of impulse control and regulation or an action he chose to make? If the later he needs to learn that we don't punch and threaten people. He doesn't need to accept it's wrong, you might not be able to convince him of that. I know with my Autistic DS it can be impossible to change his mind. He doesn't need to accept it's wrong, he needs to not do it again. So consequences, show him some new articles about single punch deaths, about people arrested for punching soemone. At 16 where I am the court can chose to try him as an adult. Maybe take him to talk to the police.

I’m really hoping he will learn to manage himself better as he matures but I do worry about repercussions or him getting into serious trouble.

If it's an issue of impulse control or emotional regulation he'll need help and support to work on those. It's harder being 16 as he can chose not to engage, would he go and see someone? If you can afford it or college has a psychologist he can see that's where I'd go, not for CBT or counselling, though counselling over his best friends death might help him if he hasn't had any so far. There are methods he can learn to help with emotional regulation, they need to be taught and practiced when calm for them to work when he's distressed or angry. If he'll work with you and you can't afford for him to see someone you can research and use techniques from online, there's a lot of information around this online..

I'm doing ongoing work around emotional regulation with my primary age Autistic boys.

Cop on! You don’t joke about people who have passed. Especially when the kid lost his friend in tragic circumstances. I don’t know what kind of a sense of humour you have if you think that is ok. If your mother died or someone you loved dearly and you were grieving, would you laugh it off with the “joker”?

My experience working in schools, has been a mixture of both.
And yes I would also prefer to be the parent of the puncher than the scrote.

My advice to parents has always been to make sure that the school is informed in writing of every incident that occurred before the violence takes place that way partial blame can be placed on the school for not preventing the initial bullying.

Absolutely bang on.

Unfortunate user name for someone who would call the police if their child was a nasty little shit snd got a punch for his trouble.

Definitely impulse control and lack of emotional regulation. He seems to act first ask questions late. The red mist descend before he replay thinks about what he’s going to do. All his emotions are the same. Always 10 fold. After Christmas ill
look into some of the things you’ve suggested. Thank you

'Your thug of a DS'? Seriously? I disagree with you entirely. The scrote that makes jokes like that is way worse.

Unfortunately this is what happens and the scrote gets their victimhood card endorsed.

As you can tell I hate the sort of bully that winds up their victim then gets away with it.

It's a joke is a BS excuse that gets pulled out by nasty minded people when their 'humor' ends in consequences.

Would he engage with a psychologist or work with you to learn some emotional regulation techniques? CALMS really should have taught him some. It's a process learning and practicing techniques for emotional regulation until they become something he can access quickly to de-escalate a solution. He'd also need to learn what cues to look out for as the techniques need to be applied before he reaches the meltdown/lashout stage. It's something you can research and help him with if he will engage. I know that's a big if at 16.

OP, I'm sure this doesn't need saying but just in case... you're doing good.

This is shit, and I really feel for both you and your DS, and you're clearly doing what you can in both supporting him and seeking help.

You must be feeling so worried and lost – any of us would be (including the gung-ho punch-police on this thread, who somehow don't seem to have anything practical to suggest) – and we're rooting for both of you.

EXACTLY!

OK OP medication doesn't work but have you tried any sort of therapy?
Also are there patterns does this happen when he's hungry, sleep etc. I have ADHD too and while my impulse control isn't great at the best of times its WAY worse when I'm hungry and/or sleepy.

ADDITUDE magazine (https://www.additudemag.com/impulse-control-strategies-adhd-students/) has some great strategies. Some that have helped me are breathing exercises and 'replaying' scenarios. E.g. I know in certain situations I tend to get angry so I just imagine myself in them, practice controlling myself etc so I'm now used to monitoring my reaction.

As usual this thread has descended into people taking sides (your son/the 'jokers') and it's really not helpful. The issue is that, if he firmly believes he's right he's just going to dig his heels whether you use the carrot or the stick.

R.e. 'violence isn't the answer' ... if he is that impulsive, he himself must've put his foot in it sometimes. How would he feel if he got punched in the face. Equally, violence is how wars start... escalation... etc.

Ask him what good has his punching done. He has felt he 'defended' his friend. What does the autistic friend think about it? Is he happy, or horrified at what he's done? Has the 'bully' changed their ways?

Not the point of the thread but I'm confused about how many DSs there are and who did what?
Either way, punching is not acceptable.

This.

This is so hard, you have to teach things that most kids pick up on their own automatically. You have to teach the skills that maturity would usually bring, because it won't necessarily for them. You have to support and care and manage far more than someone with an equivalent age NT child would. You have to find a way to teach and explain things so they can be taken in by a brain that thinks very differently to yours if your neurotypical. This is really hard stuff. You care and you are searching for solutions that professionals should have already given to you. You've got the groundwork there. It might not feel like it but you're doing the things you need to and you are doing good.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/nov/23/one-killer-punch-review-random-violence

this is the documentary mentioned upthread. It was very interesting and powerful, if you can find it anywhere. Good luck op.

It's a diagnosis, not a label.

There is information online too about recognising emotions, the signs in his body. One of my boys finds emotion really overwhelming and shuts down or lashes out. He feels everything so much.

It might not be the answer for your DS but zones of regulation is used a lot where I live for kids with ADHD and Autistic kids, might be worth checking out. Good luck with it all.

That seems unlikely.

You could also talk to him about how habits form. That if he teaches his brain it's ok to react aggressively (threats of violence) where he thinks the reaction is deserved than over time his brain could start automatically reacting to anger with aggression and he might hit out at someone he cares about or loves. Make it about him, whatever he thinks about these people he himself deserves better then to justify and learn aggression as a reaction to strong emotions.

Alternative point of view on fighting sports : it made my behaviour worse. With training I lost all the remaining inhibitions to hit/kick, I learned the moves and became very strong & supple, I was getting a lot of praise for what essentially was fighting and my anger/seeing red was rewarded by some amazing physical feats.
My number one reaction to conflict became physical when it hadn't been that way before. I kicked and punched a boy to the ground at school and there were other similar incidents of that ilk. Obviously, I always had a shiny good reason for my outbursts of violence...

I changed to a non-violent sport, then dancing and my fight mode switched to flight very soon with it.

I still enjoy physically taxing hobbies but I actively have to avoid aggressive competitive sports and aggressive, challenging people. I don't need anything or anyone bringing out my "red mist" side.

I wasn't diagnosed until my mid thirties but looking back, withdrawing from combat sports was one of the best decisions for my future. There are many more wholesome ways to get a physical challenge whilst not feeding the beast....

Thank you so much for that. I am taking on board all of the advice I’ve been given and I’m really grateful for it. There are lots of things I can look into now that I hadn’t thought about.