Seasoned parents - how to balance being firm vs enjoying your kids

[k80pie]

Just want to hear from parents who have raised kids, and who have thoughts on how to strike a good balance between being appropriately firm with your (young) kids, and just having fun and enjoying them.

I know everyone says time goes so fast and just enjoy your kids, have fun with them etc - but I also don't want to raise badly behaved brats!

At 5 our DS is constantly pushing boundaries and we are finding we are always at him to 'stop doing that', 'don't do this' - trying to make sure we bring him up well, to do what we ask and are appropriately firm. But I don't want to crush his little spirit and be nagging parents (which I think we are in danger of becoming) and want to be able to relax and laugh and have fun. I know kids behave better when they feel connected to their parents. But then I worry we will just become pushover permissive parents whose kids don't behave well in the outside world. Any words of wisdom?

Clear boundaries and clear consequences work really well.
I am quite a fun mum and at 11 and 13 my kid's still want to spend time with me (very lucky).

But, I am the boss and there's no doubt about that, I have no qualms about being at the helm of this ship - wobbling on that just makes them feel insecure and inevitably you will have to put your foot down at some point, and if you have held back for fear of upset, you will have to come down harder and that's worse, than what I do which is a basically a no with a smile... no crossness, no judgement, just a calm 'that's not happening' attitude, job done, no drama, everyone content.
To achieve that I have never given a 'no' that I didn't totally stand by from day one (but anytime you start is better than never). So if my kids hear me say 'don't do that' or 'no' they pay attention and rarely challenge, the consequences have always been fair, proportionate and age appropriate, but I think the reason they accept my verdict is because it's nice to have someone you trust in charge.

Good leadership is always with consent of those being led - if you want to be authoritative and not authoritarian.
So it's a two way relationship, I have great power but I would never abuse it and that's why they listen.
What that looks like is:

• decisions are always fair and transparent
• No favouritism or flip flopping on what's allowed depending on your mood
• obstacles to what they want are applied consistently in line with our family priorities/values *I always say yes unless there is a good reason to say no, so actually my default answer to everything is yes... So if I say no... That's for very good reason so is serious.
• Similarly, If I can give them the choice on something I will, I only step in if it matters, so as a toddler that might mean letting them choose which colour cup to use, but I get to say no to having cola in it, at 13 that's what time he's coming home from friends but I get to say what's a safe limit on that.
• No double standards *Their voice and preferences are taken into account but don't weigh heavier than other important considerations *Me and DH are united, if we disagree about an approach it's not in front of the kids, though we do discuss some decisions so they have healthy disagreement resolution examples

That's working so far for me.

Also add, if you've got a really lively one, and part of him managing to behave well is to have enough outlets for all that energy ... then you need to give those outlets.
If you've set the rules and provided an environment which gives circumstances within which they can succeed in being good, then you can't go far wrong.

At age 5 we spent a lot of time outdoors running off energy. If we hadn't I would have had more challenging behaviour from frustration to deal with, which would have made expectations of his behaviour less fair.
So for instance, after an hour or two running round the woods and climbing trees, I can reasonably expect him to sit still in a restaurant... That kind of balance is necessary so you don't set them up to fail... And demanding good behaviour in certain situations is completely reasonable and doesn't crush anyone's spirit, it equips them to function happily in society without friction so it's setting them up to thrive not be crushed.
You are guiding, not crushing, but guiding does need to be crystal clear without moving goalposts or, for that matter, applied with trepidation.

There’s a bit of a myth on here that if you have a boundary the child will never cross it. They bloody do.

I feel the same as you OP and I lack confidence in my parenting probably as a result. So no answers here. DS has refused to get dressed this morning so missed a group I’ve paid for.

Pick your battles so is what he is doing an annoyance if so distract so he doesn't see it as a punishment or a way to push your buttons. Is it dangerous if so be firm but along the lines of DS don't do that's we don't want you getting hurt or X breaking.

DS is nearly 10 and other than a bit of attitude that gets the luck he's no bother. I can't remote the last time I actually told him off so it does get better.

More or less agree with ABeautifulThing - clear boundaries, united front with your DH/DP and make sure your own behaviour models what you expect from your DC. Ie; if you have a 'no swearing' rule then don't say ... 'but it's OK for grown ups to swear'.
And be the 'parent' not the 'friend' ... I always cringe a little when people say their parents are their 'best friends' ... you can have a great relationship with your parents without them being 'best friends'. I am close to my own mother but we are not 'enmeshed', likewise we have a great relationship with our adult DS and he enjoys spending time with us but we have our own friends and he has his.

I have a teen and one just in double digits. They are typically good children and have given me very little trouble. For families who use consistent rules there should be the same outcome. But there is a huge secret 😜. Luck, pure and simple.

I thought it was me, I had very few rules, clear set out consequences and always made sure they had a lot of physical activity and fresh air daily. I caught myself as much as possible in the "stop XYZ" and ask them to do "ABC" instead etc.

I have watched my friend apply very similar approach and unfortunately her child just isn't on board. So by all means parent th child you have but remember there is an element of luck it isn't always personal.

Just to add to the above that threads like this always attract the all you need a boundaries crowd but on other threads which are more of a general discussion plenty of people admit to struggling with their child’s behaviour. So I do think a lot of us are trying to find the magic solution!

Children cross boundaries, but the way you parent can make that more or less likely, and the way you respond when they do can make it more or less likely...
The bit in the middle is where the nuance is and is down to their personality, yours, peer influence etc... No one has a sure answer, all you can do is tip the odds... But if you have a clear plan and your leadership is clear then your making the best of what you've got.
My DD is pretty tricky in that she is neuro diverse and is quite demand avoidant, so I have to tweak my approach to get the best out of her, but still consistent leadership/parenting is your friend because everyone needs to know where they stand in the first place for anything else that could go wrong to be limited in its impact.

That is a very good point .. a lot of it is down to 'luck', DH and I were strict parents with firm boundaries but our DS never actually challenged any of the boundaries .. how would we have coped if he did? He never tried drugs, smoking, inappropriate relationships, stealing, staying out all night etc etc (to our knowledge). So I suppose I am looking back (he's now early 20s) and feeling a bit righteous about my parenting when it was probably just sheer good luck ...

How old is your DS? Could he have gone in a onesie? Why couldn't you dress him?

I always wondered why people posted advice like ‘tell him firmly not to’ - now I know, @Ragwort !

I also think it's telling them what you do want them to do and preventing what they shouldn't do at a young age. Having a box of chocolates on a low table and saying 'don't eat the chocolates' has an inevitable conclusion. Move the chocolates.

I'm a fun mum OP and have never really had to tell DD off or use any sort of consequence but I'm certain it's just personality not parenting.

So I reckon stick with what you're doing and he'll get it soon and then you can focus more on fun. Some kids just seem to be more lively and need more sanctions than others and I don't see how you can have fun if they're bouncing off the walls and being silly / annoying people.

@Lougle where did the onesie come from? Sorry - I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m just honestly confused as to where the onesie came from!

Dressing him - yes, I could have pinned him down, been kicked numerous times and dressed him BUT that’s giving him attention and it’s bringing in more conflict and tellings off that will be ignored as I do enforce no kicking as much as I can. As a very general rule, I try to avoid physically forcing DS to do things as much as I can - obviously there are times when I’ve had to but if I can avoid it I do. So I made the decision to ‘okay well you won’t get dressed, that’s a shame because blah blah blah’ but since I don’t have much confidence in my parenting I do question whether it’s right. So I am not saying it was right or wrong, it’s just what happened it that makes sense.

I think I'm similar to @ABeautifulThing in my parenting style.
Always been firm, but fair. If I've said no, there's no whinging as they know it wouldn't work. Mine are teens now (13,16,17) and my middle child actually told me recently he thinks I've been a really good parent, which meant a lot. I was stricter than many when they were small and gradually gave them more freedom. I'm probably a lot more permissive than most parents now they're teens, but the upside to that is know exactly what they've been up to and where they are as they're honest with me. I draw the line at 'being friends', as they still respect me and know there are boundaries.
I think a LOT of it must be luck though. We've never had arguments, even between them (and the older 2 share a room), no slammed doors, no serious issues. This could still all change with DD (13), especially as we're relocating next year!

All I ever aimed for was a safer, more stable childhood than I had (chaos and no rules) without going too far the other way.

@Summermeadowflowers I'm asking if he could have worn something over the top of his pyjamas that would have been 'good enough' to get you out to the group. You haven't said how old he is.

"So I made the decision to ‘okay well you won’t get dressed, that’s a shame because blah blah blah’"

The only trouble with that is that it relies on your DS being able to remember what the activity is, realise that he enjoys it, realise that he is missing out on it, and realise that it was him not getting dressed that stopped the activity. Again, dependent on his age, he may well have experienced: "Blah, blah, blah, blah".....no more hassle to get dressed.

Different things work for different children, but in this situation it was really you that lost out on the activity that you had paid for.

@Summermeadowflowers Some kids just make it so much harder than it needs to be. I swear I never did the kind of things he does, so Mum never really had to tell me off!

His cousin (our nephew) is a few years older and is incredibly annoying, and poorly behaved, so I really really don't want our DS ending up like that - that's partly what motivates me to try to keep on top of his behaviour but I realise I may have to pick my battles as a PP suggested...

I completely understand where you're coming from. I only have one child, but she is very strong-willed and stubborn. I've been struggling with her since I separated from my stbxh. A friend recommended the book "how to talk so little kids will listen". I've been a a game changer for me. There's also books in the same series for children of different ages. Could be worth a try, as so far, it's really helped me engage dd's co-operation and I don't feel exhausted from nagging all the time.

OK @Lougle . He wasn’t in his pyjamas. Like I say, I’m not claiming it was right or wrong, I just didn’t really have it in me for a physical fight. (He is 3 in December.)

@k80pie I know. I don’t even think DS is that bad but the problem is the things recommended for dealing with behaviour never seem to work for us! But I endlessly stress about him being ‘that child.’ Probably more than I should.

Anyway off topic but we’ve got severe flood warnings with danger to life alerts here so probably couldn’t have gone anyway!

Clear rules and consequences that you stick to.
We are going to get something for you, but you have a tantrum as the left lift came before the right lift. I'll watch you tantrum and then we'll go right back home.
You won't get dressed fine you go to school in your PJs. I did take the uniform that she put on immediately she got to school.
So and so has X and it's not fair that you don't have X - fine I'm not their parent.
We really had her moments as her Dad who I separated from who was either throwing money at her or not seeing her at all as she had displeased him. I remained constant being there loving her, but having consistent rules. She always knew exactly where she stood with me.
DD is an independent strong willed 19 year old now who is able to function nicely in a shared house. We are very close and have formed a good adult relationship.

Thanks @StEtienne93 - I actually have that book, but I guess I need to properly read it! Thanks for the reminder, I heard a radio item the other day by those women and they are so great.

But yeah it's really hard to find the strategy that will work for your kid. So far, nagging isn't working for me...just makes me feel like a crap parent.

Can you give us examples of things you are struggling with ?
I have a functional 19yo and 17yo, I agree with "firm but fair".
You are not their friend you are their parent. Some DCs just need more parenting than others (DS I am looking at you).

The other issue is that as good as the whole ‘firm boundary’ thing can be sometimes the firmer you are the more the child will fight you - I don’t mean physically but I mean in the sense they won’t back down and then you end up in an awful standoff. I’ve had this when working with children with complex behavioural problems. DS isn’t in that category and hopefully won’t be but he is very, very stubborn. (I do not know where he gets it from …)

Sometimes a bit of flexibility can be helpful. I know MN will faint in horror at that though.

I was very strict with DS when he was little, he pushed boundaries a lot and in some respects I wish I had just had a laugh and not sweated the small stuff. But then, by the time he got to his teenage years I didn’t have to do much, the work was done and he was no bother at all, bar usual moodiness and experimentation. He is 21 now and we are incredibly close and he says we had the discipline just right.

DD however is a totally different kettle of fish and she has been quite difficult to parent since she was a toddler with things getting worse now as she enters her teens. We battled with her for years to parent her how we parented DS: firm, fair, fun, rewards and consequences and generally take no shit. It just doesn’t work. She is extremely demand avoidant and a tricky combination of anxious and extremely gobby at home and I suspect PDA/ASD but the school aren’t having it. She is in a great school that she worked really hard to get into, she has lots of friends, so we are going with basic expectations at home and leave her to mess up sometimes and I disengage and add consequences when she is horrible to us or won’t do as we ask when we actually need her to. This is both for our sanity and to teach her that if you are very rude people won’t want to go out of their way for you.

So to answer your question, I think you parent the child you have rather than the one you wanted, with red lines that can’t be crossed and life is much easier when you have one that submits!