Seasoned parents - how to balance being firm vs enjoying your kids

[k80pie]

Just want to hear from parents who have raised kids, and who have thoughts on how to strike a good balance between being appropriately firm with your (young) kids, and just having fun and enjoying them.

I know everyone says time goes so fast and just enjoy your kids, have fun with them etc - but I also don't want to raise badly behaved brats!

At 5 our DS is constantly pushing boundaries and we are finding we are always at him to 'stop doing that', 'don't do this' - trying to make sure we bring him up well, to do what we ask and are appropriately firm. But I don't want to crush his little spirit and be nagging parents (which I think we are in danger of becoming) and want to be able to relax and laugh and have fun. I know kids behave better when they feel connected to their parents. But then I worry we will just become pushover permissive parents whose kids don't behave well in the outside world. Any words of wisdom?

It is very nuanced.

My absolute is health and safety though (without sounding like a drip!)

Anything that compromises that is an absolute no go and I'll be as firm as I like. It ranges from cleaning teeth to not listening in a busy place etc.

Also, manners. I insist upon them, table manners, please, thank you, excuse me etc.

Everything else I think is nuanced as you say. Depends on my mood, tiredness, his mood, tiredness, hunger!

However, I never promise anything I can't follow through on and equally I never make empty threats. Everything is followed through. When I say threat, I mean, things like we'll go home if you don't start listening (in an extreme case!)

I pick my battles. Consistency and routine is key. I believe firm boundaries make for happier kids. I also believe in respecting him as a little person, listening and acknowledging if I've got it wrong.

He's a very happy, smiley, easy going kid so I think we're doing ok!

Don’t sweat the small stuff but do decide what is important and be consistent.

if you say something is going to happen then make sure it does, same with consequences. If you say x will happen if you carry on doing y and you don’t follow through then you’re always going to be on the back foot when you try to give consequences (BIL I’m looking at you). Dc1 is an older teen now but still remembers me taking him home from an event for carrying on pushing his friend when I’d told him to stop at about age 6. I’d asked him, explained, told him if he did it one more time we’d be going home. He looked at me and pushed his friend again. We went home. Nearly 14 years later and it still has an impact!

Good bedtime routines are very important imo.

set a good example. If you don’t want phones at the table when they’re older don’t have phones at the table as they grow up for example.

Tell them what you want them to do rather than what you don’t e.g walk rather than don’t run. It’s more positive and clearer.

kids thrive on and feel safe having consistent boundaries and knowing what’s expected of them.

if you say something is going to happen then make sure it does, same with consequences. If you say x will happen if you carry on doing y and you don’t follow through then you’re always going to be on the back foot when you try to give consequences (BIL I’m looking at you). Dc1 is an older teen now but still remembers me taking him home from an event for carrying on pushing his friend when I’d told him to stop at about age 6. I’d asked him, explained, told him if he did it one more time we’d be going home. He looked at me and pushed his friend again. We went home. Nearly 14 years later and it still has an impact!

This there weren't many of these moments but DCs still remember them.

When children have adults individual time and feel valued, listened to, exercised enough, when they receive attention for positive behaviours, with parents role modelling how to best express emotions of upset and reflection, often there are fewer poor behaviours. Aim for fair, clear boundaries with huge doses of empathy. Long term you’re aiming to create a child who has a good moral compass with the ability to navigate relationships and responsibilities. I’ve seen some awful Victorian disciplining in different settings, over reactive punishments, loud shouting battles, pick picking away at at children’s self worth with their kids seeming emotionally crushed, eventually rebelling big time or becoming a delicate shadow of themselves.

I think kids feel more connected and happier when they feel like they have kind but firm parents.

Parents enjoy kids more and feel more connected to their kids when they feel they are in control in the way they should be.

Just because your son may not like being told no on the surface does not mean that he is deeply disturbed by it. If it's no with authority yet kindness, it will make him feel contained.

I think you're getting a bit confused about what a boundary is. It's essentially a rule that if broken carries a consequence. It's a boundary in society that we don't murder people, for example.

The rule can be broken, of course. People have free will. Your child will refuse to sit at the table nicely and people will murder each other. If the consequence is enforced then the boundary has been held.

Having a boundary doesn't mean having a rule that it's somehow impossible for your child to break/they'll be physically held down and forced to abide by. It just means having a consistent rule with a consistent consequence.

Don't just tell off.
Explain WHY you are telling off.
What is the purpose of being annoyed? Is it because it's for their safety, because the time / location is inappropriate, the behaviour isn't good
If appropriate explain how they could handle a situation better. Ask them what could they have done differently? What choices would be better?

That way you can be firm but fair and they understand why you are 'being mean' and have less reason to complain back.

I’m a teacher with nearly 11yo DS1 and 7yo DS2. I think teaching has helped me, especially with DS1 who is AuDHD.

I try/tried to:

• have unconditional positive regard and start each day afresh
• lots of outdoorsiness when they were tiny
• lots of positive reinforcement
• apologising when I get ratty
• firm boundaries but element of flexibility
• fun outings (Nando’s, museums etc)
• lots of laughter

Mistakes I’ve seen friends make:

• Not insisting on Ps & Qs. Children therefore appear sullen and rude.
• Believing every word their kids say. Kids talk shite fairly often
• Insisting on weird things and sweating the small stuff
• Making a big deal of food
• Ignoring additional needs

That only works if you have a consequence they care about @NuffSaidSam (and can make the correlation between undesired action and consequence.)

If you don’t, it’s tough going.

Of course. It needs to be appropriate to their level of development.

But the boundary has been held. Whether the child cares or not is another thing! You were arguing in the table example that the boundary hadn't been held because the child didn't care about the TV or got down from the table etc. This is not correct. It's you that holds the boundary not the child. You can hold a boundary regardless of your child's adherence to that boundary.

It's not going to work first time for every child. Parenting is a marathon not a sprint!

@NuffSaidSam ok, so you say ‘my boundary is you sit at the table and eat.’ The child does not sit at the table and does not eat. So the boundary hasn’t been held. Sorry - I know it seems I’m being deliberately argumentative and/or provocative here which I’m not, but it hasn’t been held at all.

You're not being argumentative, but you're misunderstanding.

The boundary is this:

You sit at the table at dinner time (I don't think making a child eat is a healthy boundary tbh, but encouraging joining in with meal times is good). If you don't sit at the table at dinner time then we can't play a board game after dinner.

The child does not sit at the table.

You do not play a board game with them after dinner.

The boundary is held.

Whether the child gives a shit about the board game is not relevant to whether or not the boundary has been held.

The boundary is YOUR behaviour, not theirs. You don't play the board game, you hold the boundary.

I think staying calm is a large part of the battle. We rush about so much and just expect kids to fall in, then if they don't we instantly go into panic mode. Slowing down and remembering what it's like to be a kid can help.

You need to lay down the line without being oppositional - so eg if they say they won't get dressed, say 'we need to go out and you can't go like that' but don't say 'yes you will get dressed' and get into a yes-no argument that gets entrenched.

Sometimes when they're defiant, it's a hormonal chemical thing and you need to sit with them while it subsides. You have to time it right, there's a point when they're too worked up to listen.

Yes unconditional positive regard, with each day a fresh start

Hmm but if they don’t have a clue why they aren’t having a game played with them then it seems performative for you rather than a meaningful sanction for them (I don’t mean you personally.)

Please don’t misunderstand me, I don’t let my DS run wild but I am conscious most of the time we only get anywhere with his cooperation.

Swap to focusing more on what he does well.ie;
Thank you for getting in the car so sensibly.
I'm so lucky you eat your dinner so well.
Wow great job tell me about your drawing.

Be child led in play and say something he's done well when he goes to bed (this could be a struggle with mine at times but I did it and it helps me feel more gratitude acknowledging what is good)

Say yes as much as you can but no means no.

Of course, as said before, it has to be developmentally appropriate. You can't say 'sit at the table or you can't play a board game' to a one year old! Sitting at the table/board game is just an example.

Another example might be: no throwing, if you throw something it gets taken away until tomorrow. This one is obviously suitable for a much younger audience. A two year old will get the jist of this one pretty quickly.

It's not performative, but you're right that it's about the parents behaviours not the child's, accepting that is key to parenting. You can only control your behaviour, not theirs. You hold a clear boundary, this is the best you can do. Like you say, sometimes their will be cooperation and sometimes their wont, but that isn't for you to control, that's your childs choice. You control your behaviour and holding a few, firm, fair, clear boundaries is good parenting.

So yes with the no throwing but then if they just keep finding more and more things to throw (I don’t have a thrower personally thank god but one of my friends does) you can’t remove everything!

I suppose there are just some things that are easier to enforce than others.

You can certainly remove everything that they throw (the only exception I'd make is a dummy/favourite teddy).

The consequences are your choice (something you can control) so pick consequences that a) your child understands and cares about and b) are easy for you to enforce.

Another example is: you hold my hand when we walk along the pavement, if you don't you get strapped in the buggy.

We probably do something similar to ABeautifulThing.
Because there's consistent and developmentally appropriate expectations and we try to prioritise situations where they can be successful with their behaviour, we're freed up to do more fun things.
The firmness leads to more fun because in general we aren't having to waste half an hour over trivial things.

It's natural for children to push at boundaries and test them. I'd be worried if any parent said that their DC hasn't because either:

• they're lying and the child has
• they don't have proper boundaries so it doesn't seem like their child has pushed boundaries
• they're in best mate mode and when the time comes to get into Mum/Dad mode it's a huge shock to the child

Of course you can remove stuff again and again. That’s what holding the boundary means. And that’s why it is a long haul.

For example if you want me to get you something and you don’t say please you don’t get it. Now maybe the child goes and gets it himself. That’s fine. But I did not do it for them. You have to do it again and again.

The food one (I also don’t like food examples) as simple as ‘you sit down and eat nicely. Otherwise no dessert.’ Then there is no dessert. As I said not a very good example per se but you get the gist. The best consequences are clear and immediate.

Also I find expectation setting is very important. Before we head to the grocery store, or a friend’s house or even to school we always have a quick recap of what is going to happen and what is expected. On the school run we might have a chat about which bits might be tricky and how he might negotiate that.

I also find a routine (or having a cadence to the day) works well. This is especially true in the holidays.

I also don’t seek to entertain my children or constantly keep them engaged. Being bored is fine. We are very low screen family. When I am standing in a queue I am happy to chat to the boys but I won’t hand them a phone. And sometimes I will say, Mummy is very tired today. Can we just stand quietly for a couple of minutes and then we’ll chat? My kids are NT so this is possible for them. It means that over time they have both become very good at playing independently. Again it’s taken years.

On the flip side sometimes I am far too strict and with a pre teen in the house I am trying to navigate this phase.

But then if they are (thinking of my friend) throwing food, cutlery, anything they can find … I mean yes, you can take the food away but you can’t starve them indefinitely 😅 or remove absolutely everything from the home!

And sometimes the more tightly you enforce a boundary the worse it makes a situation. Anyway - I’m droning on. DS is delightful but at a challenging stage shall we say!

It’s fine to let them occasionally feel discomfort. It’s fine for them to have an almighty tantrum. I never try to reason during one. I just stay nearby and say, ‘if you need a hug let me know.’ But I usually ride it out or if it’s public, pick him up (can now only pick up one of my kids) and take him home where he can continue to rage.

I also don’t get into cyclical arguments with my kids. If they say something unreasonable, I’ll give them my point of view once and then leave them to it.

But the main thing is that parents when faced with a child who is angry/upset want to make the situation better, placate the child. Rather than holding that boundary and accepting that children have big emotions and it’s fine to work through them (but I won’t let him hit me or smash things). But if he, in his own room, wants to yell the place down, he is welcome. Or like my pre teen when asked to do chores walk around with a thunderous face and stomp about- sure go ahead. As long as he’s doing the chores, I am not going to police his emotions or try any fake cheering up tactics.

Very seasoned, OP.

I could never work out if I was too strict or not strict enough.

But a few useful tips are:

Say yes unless you have a good reason not to.

Following on from that, no means no. It doesn't mean you're going to negotiate.

Pick your battles. Anything regarding tidy bedrooms, going out in unsuitable clothing (flip flops in the rain etc) are not battles worth picking. The battles worth picking are the ones that involve safety.

Food only at the table, all together. If you don't want to eat, there's no pressure. If you leave the table, your meal is over.

Bedtimes are not negotiable (younger children, obviously). Everyone goes to sleep in their own bed. If they are not asleep, they are quietly in their room. You need to start this at the outset.

Get them outside as much as possible.

Laugh when stuff goes wrong.

Praise all the good stuff.

Every day ends with cuddles and stories.

Tomorrow is a clean slate, whatever has happened on the day before.