First day at Beavers and shocked

[Lskz]

Hi all,
DS(7)finally got a space at local Beavers and today we had first trial session. Stayed with him and shocked by the children behaviour. 16 children in total, half of them do not listen, just run around, kicking each other, making animal sounds and etc. DS is active child but I think even he's shocked. They did the activity for 10 mins and 1hr trying to calm them down so they can do the activity. There were 4 volunteers which is good ratio I guess. I do understand there might be children with special needs and etc, but it looked most of them copy each other. Is this normal? Somehow I imagined this differently.

Yes it’s not universal it’s feral. I came across our village cubs at a local outdoor venue 2 weeks ago and they were behaving beautifully but I did notice how many volunteers they had - older male leader was explaining something and they were listening but there were several female volunteers too and a smaller group in another circle with several teenage leaders. So inc young leaders probably 1-3 ratio. That won’t be norm in many areas desperate for volunteers.

It's interesting that behaviour post covid has changed so much. This goes for adults too. Rudeness is prevalent everywhere (I see signs all the time now asking for customers to respect the staff), never used to see it before. Service is also crap in most places, opening hours of essential services are hugely reduced.

Anyway I'm giving my DS until half term to decide if he wants to continue with Cubs. No point him going if it stresses him out with the noise.

How long can we keep blaming COVID?

DS just moved up to Cubs, he missed the end of Reception in 2020 and then lots of Year 1 but he's been back in school now over two years.

DNeph is still in Beavers and is two years below so did Reception and Yr1, now in Yr2.

Son DID miss school, nephew mainly missed nursery. But they've had two years of LARGELY solid education where our schools still expect the kids to behave and our attendance is over 95%. That isn't parents deciding school doesn't matter like a previous poster said

The question of professional qualifications is an interesting one to dig into. Whether it would solve the problems is another matter - those of us in the workplace may well have experienced terrible bosses, despite such people presumably being "professional". Plus, it would stop the whole thing being staffed by volunteers - anyone being asked to do formal qualifications will want paying. That will instantly put the cost of Scouting up, and out of reach of many parents whose children would really benefit from it. I also wonder if it would end up being run by people who are only there because they're being paid, rather than people who do it because they love it and believe in the Scouting aims and ethos.

Ultimately, we're all volunteers who do our best to provide engaging and fulfilling activities and experiences for all the kids who come through our doors. Sometimes, we don't get it right. But there are continuously more kids wanting to do Scouting than adults who can offer it to them (nationally, over 100,000 young people on waiting lists who are old enough to join Scouting right now, but for the lack of spaces). That tells you something about how well it works and how good the volunteers are, the majority of the time. If it was universally crap, nobody would want to come.

Dixiechickonhols
I did try to tell brownies leader dd had sen but the leader then excluded her

Obviously issues with covid and much delayed diagnosis and referrals.
After referral feb just now late sep getting form to complete. Now that dd is in secondary what could they possibly say?

Scouts have been good actually better with than school
The rates of sen are rising and with 2 yr waits what would parents even say.
But sen kids are being failed worst as they can copy or join in on other kids bad behaviour.
Eg dd2 has always been ok at school. A classmate 7yo has been punching kids this week. Hit dd2 on the back in a q. She and other kid held him and dd2 pinched him! I said why didnt you go to the back of the q out of the way?
The teacher presumably knows none of this. The boy is likely being silly rather than aggressive but will he stop now? Also dd2 says he never has to go to HT

Sen kids can be less likely to tell a teacher. Dd1 was often in trouble but another kid had done something.

I think all the sen in mainstream is an issue as can normalize behaviour to other kids who copy it.
Eg friend at secondary (awaiting asd referral) kicked for no reason by another sen kid.

You cant even at activities separate the difficult kids as at scouts there were still 3 per group and they were say throwing mallet in air or hammering an ant hill!

We don’t need a diagnosis just a heads up that there’s issues so we can staff accordingly and put measures eg 1-1 in place.
If I’m taking your child on a trip then I need to know if they are violently travel sick, extreme anxiety in crowds, need epi pen etc. All real life experiences no heads up given and zero on health form.

That reminds me of one playscheme trip where we learned, by pure chance, that a child (who we’d had in all week by that point!) was allergic to loads of stuff.

The parents hadn’t put on anaphylactic reactions to strawberries, kiwi and various other fruits as they “weren’t on your snack menu”. And didn’t mention the allergy to penicillin and previous serious reaction to GA on the medical section as “the chances of needing to take her to hospital are tiny”.

Between that and trying to make people understand that the emergency contact that we use if we can’t get in touch with you cannot be you I grew to hate trips.

I've been helping out with Beavers and they are mental.

The cubs seem so much calmer. But their leader is a teacher by day. Me and another mum helper watched on awe as she worked some magic and managed to organise an activity with both Beavers & Cubs.

I agree that Beavers can be chaotic. It depends so much on the combination of the cohort, the number of beavers, the number of leaders, and the experience of the leaders.

We have two Beaver colonies at our scout group. One colony is calm, organised, capped at 16 Beavers, and the leaders are quite strict (although they are also a lot of fun). The beavers are not allowed to misbehave, and there is a 'time out' system for disruptive behaviour. The other colony is more chaotic, has 24 beavers, and the leaders are less strict. It's much noisier in there, and the beavers always seem to be running around.

I'm a cub leader, and I can usually tell which colony the beaver has moved up from, depending on how they fit in with the pack when they arrive.

The worst of all though is the scouts - they are incredibly noisy, and not very likely to listen at all !

Thanks everyone, it was great to hear different opinions but looks like the behaviour I witnessed is very common. DS wants to continue and I will give it a month or so. Maybe we should wait for cubs and it will be better, DS should he moving to cubs in a few months.
The leaders are heroes, special thank you for giving your free time and energy.

Cubs are worse

Scouts are even worser 😂

Again not all are equal and the one my husband runs are definitely not like that. What would help if parents are told that their child misbehaves that the child is spoken to. Some of my husbands parents just laugh when told. The way children behave now is disgusting and accountability

It’s very hard to have a word. Logistically we run groups one after each other so speaking privately to parent is hard (next group not in ratio and late starting activity) and it’s not always parent who collects.
Email to have a chat on phone - leaders work ft.
Lots of parents are oblivious or dismissive - oh they are all like that.
Some then reveal needs or issues it would have been gone to know in advance.
I try to be factual with examples and couch in safety terms.
Some mums get it and are fine but there’s always the worry it goes the other way and they kick off.
We are just volunteers.
I helped with 7 year olds on an all day trip at weekend. Most were well behaved but a couple in small group it was clear that do as you are told was optional concept.

@moggerhanger so true

Most were well behaved but a couple in small group it was clear that do as you are told was optional concept

There's always one or two that seem to think that the rules don't apply to them. But, as a leader, if you put clear expectations in place, and consequences for not following those expectations, then the vast majority of kids will behave. It takes practice, and it takes time, but most get there in the end.

I know it's easier said than done, but I found when running a cub pack, that clear, consistent rules with time out of activities for those that don't behave, works wonders. We also get the cubs to write their own rules, and ask for suggested consequences of breaking those rules. The cubs are much harsher than I am !

We also get the cubs to write their own rules, and ask for suggested consequences of breaking those rules. The cubs are much harsher than I am !

That always worked so well with our playscheme as well. They like their own rules and it’s easier to follow I think.

At our last one they came up with no flossing at the snack table and apparently the bridge club in the evening (the rules were up on the wall) were quite amused as they briefly had the vision of 40 kids sat around with dental floss at the snack table before clicking what was meant.

The only thing you have to watch with it is that you don’t get one or two kids who spend their constantly picking at another child about the rules. We had to speak to two girls once as they were constantly on the back of another child who frequently got in trouble at school.

Love the idea of them setting their own rules / consequences.

Our session was so tiring last night; I set out clear expectations on behaviour at the beginning, but they just don’t listen. My own 8 year old son (who knows exactly how to push my buttons at home) kept whispering to me “I feel SO bad for you.” 😂

Then you need to sit down with your GSL and write a behaviour policy.
Then ask all the parents to come in at the beginning of the meeting the following week, and go through it all with them.
Make it clear that no Beaver can attend until the parents have signed to agree to the behaviour policy.
However you set it up, set it up so there is some sort of warning system, and then a 'suspension' so any child who is no responding to your requests and instructions can't come the next week.
This usually works well as it sends a clear signal that you mean what you say.

Ultimately though, if it makes no difference, then the child will have to leave the group. It rarely happens once parents understand that it is their child spoiling things for the rest, and once the children see that you mean what you say.

If need be, ask the GSL to come and support you for a couple of weeks.

I'm a Beaver Leader and finding that this current age cohort are the most profoundly affected by the pandemic.

These are the kids who spent their nursery years in and out of luck down, socially distancing and learning from adults wearing face masks.

They are unused to following basic instructions, socialising in groups, the word 'no'.

We are going to be dealing with the impact for years.

Poor kids.

The more we can get them into groups like beavers the better.

@DinnaeFashYersel there are so many people saying the year 3s have major issues post Covid. It can’t just be coincidence but I do wonder how much they are being properly tracked and monitored? It does seem like missing out on nursery/reception has really had some profound impacts on behaviour. I think my youngest (just starting school) has been largely cushioned from covid. The parties I’ve been to with her year have been so much easier re behaviour for example despite the kids all being younger. I refused to ever do a whole class party for my eldest as the behaviour from a lot of the boys was quite frankly feral but I think I can already see a difference in the younger kids being easier.