First day at Beavers and shocked

[Lskz]

Hi all,
DS(7)finally got a space at local Beavers and today we had first trial session. Stayed with him and shocked by the children behaviour. 16 children in total, half of them do not listen, just run around, kicking each other, making animal sounds and etc. DS is active child but I think even he's shocked. They did the activity for 10 mins and 1hr trying to calm them down so they can do the activity. There were 4 volunteers which is good ratio I guess. I do understand there might be children with special needs and etc, but it looked most of them copy each other. Is this normal? Somehow I imagined this differently.

Beavers have always been pretty lively.
How well behaved or otherwise they are will be impacted by the skills of the Leader(s); by the planning and delivery of the activities; and, to some extent that particular cohort.
However
Since returning after covid, EVERY colony I have visited and EVERY Beaver Leader I have spoken too have noted that the dc are really poorly behaved. Well, that is the nicer reports - others have said they are feral.
Cubs Leaders are reporting it too.
The impact of not being in school, and not doing any activities out of school for a years or two years (depending on tiers and activities) is still affecting this age group hugely.
Add into that, that when a lot of Leaders found how much time thy had back, during covid, plenty of them decided not to come back. Then there was none of the new / younger Beavers having the older Beavers to 'model' to them what they are supposed to do. Same in cubs.

For a horrible moment I wondered if you were our new starter tonight - except we have 20 kids not 16...

Post-Covid, we have seen behaviour really decline. We do our best to manage it with lots of structure, plenty of games but not too much aimless running around, and a yellow/red card system for particularly poor behaviour. But it's so much worse than it used to be. The kids struggle to listen, follow simple instructions, take turns, sit for a couple of minutes without rolling around on the floor or wrestling each other, and know when to just stop talking. I'm losing my mojo for it, I have to confess.

This is just awful. How can that environment be good for anyone?! I had NO idea that Scouting was often seen as a place to run wild/ have no discipline. If they're like that I would argue whether they should be running.

Yep! I was delighted when my son got a space a couple of years ago. It was absolute f*ing chaos. Did one session and never went back.

It is quite difficult to suspend or exclude a young person permanently. There's a dismissal process, right of appeal to the District, etc. It's also supposed to be only for very serious misbehaviour, not just messing around.

If it's anything like what is happening to behaviour in schools at the moment I am not at all surprised.

Beavers is pointless. Its basically cheap childcare. The kids don't learn any meaningful skills, behaviour is feral. In lots of areas its still quietly dominated by people strongly associated with churches which can be off-putting.

@ArtichokeAardvark if your child is being feral surely it is down to you to tell him how he should behave

Completely depends on the leader running the sessions. We are extremely lucky and have an incredible leader who runs a tight ship with amazing activities. My DS has gained so much from being a part of the group

I loved Beavers, I enjoyed helping out.

We are very lucky to have a group with involved parents that organises activities and gives our boys opportunities that we couldn't. They learn life skills, self sufficiency and teamwork (not a contradiction) The male leaders are fantastic role models for my boys. The boys have boundless energy which they learn to harness in a productive way.

I have so much respect for the leaders that give their time and energy and help promote the idea of giving back something to the community you live in.

This is why I stepped down from being a cub leader. The children are mostly incredibly rude, won't do what they are asked, answer back and are generally obnoxious. After a session where I had to go and cry in another room I left. It wasn't worth giving up my Friday evenings for free for such ungrateful children. Beavers are a bit better but not much. They are bloody feral.

My DS is a cub. He loves the idea of it and really wants to listen and learn so gets quite despondent when it deteriorates into running around and screeching. The sessions where they go out and things are better.

@crumblingschools thank you for the that helpful comment. I spend 90% of my waking hours trying to tone down his behaviour, but tricky to do so at an after-school club where I wasn't actually present. However as I said, I pulled him out when it became clear he was being unmanageable, and I am actively seeking other activities that I hoped would channel his energy.

But yes, you're right, it's down to the parent. However as a parent to one of these 'wild' and 'feral' children it's a bloody endless battle and not helped by pointless comments.

😁chuck them a few logs and you're golden.

If their all new their probobly just seeing what buttons they can press trying the leaders patience etc. They have been sat down for a lot of the day at school. Just imagine the stress of teachers with 30 children in a class.

Beavers is pointless. Its basically cheap childcare.

Sadly there are some parents that treat it like that.

The kids don't learn any meaningful skills

Sorry if that was your experience in the one colony. It certainly isn't the experience of thousands of Beavers up and down the Country.
It isn't the experience of all the Beavers that achieve their Challenge awards, Staged awards, activity badges and the thousands that get their Chief Scout's Bronze Award every year.

Behaviour is feral

Which is being discussed on this thread, and how badly society has been affected by covid. How discipline is now seen as a bad thing by so many. How an increasing minority of parents have a massive entitlement without taking any responsibility themselves. It is indeed in too many places, but I would not suggest that is the fault of the Beavers. You have to look at the families.

In lots of areas its still quietly dominated by people strongly associated with churches which can be off-putting

I would agree that there are a higher % of folk who have a faith (not just Christianity) who do feel as part of their beliefs that they should generously offer their time for free, to serve the community. There are also swathes of Churches across the Country that make their premises available for Community use (often at a very subsidised cost) . I would consider that is something we should be appreciative of, myself, rather than off putting.

Beavers are lively but we always play 20/30 mins of active games first to take the edge off before doing any activities. Its does take at least a month if there is large intake of newbies to get into the swing

I’m girl guiding not scouts. Covid pandemic has had a big impact on children, parents and volunteers.
Rainbows (girls age 4-6) leader gave up as she said they were feral, no concept of sitting in circle, taking turns, listen to adult.

Parents not grasping its volunteer run.
Lots of additional needs but often parents don’t advise leaders making it hard to manage.
We don’t want to be too strict as it’s fun not school but are no nonsense and have a really active programme. We also build in free time to chat. But I’m guides age 10-13 which is easier.
Overall demands of role (its hours unpaid a week) some children’s behaviour and some parents behaviour leads to less volunteers which then makes it harder for those left.

The fact you've spent time with the leaders sets you apart as clearly NOT the problem.

The problem ones for us are those who clearly have additional needs / emotional regulation issues yet the parents say nothing, put nothing on the medical forms & refuse to talk to you at pick up.

I’m a scout leader and helped at Beavers on Monday, I didn’t know what hit me. I’m a former teacher too.
Something happened after covid, it’s gone from lively and noisy to feral and unstructured. Nothing could get done.
It wasn’t just the children. A number of parents were early to collect and were having loud conversations as a further problem to contend with. One little boy left the circle and then did a running jump, two feet, into another boy’s back before slamming both fists onto his head. I was first shocked at the lack of reaction to the unprovoked behaviour, child or adult, but then I was really shocked when his mum stood up a few minutes later to collect him. She witnessed him run around, scream then hurt another child and she didn’t even change her facial expression like she saw it.

The trouble with Scouts is that any Tom Dick or Harry can just decide they want to be a leader. Of course they go through the checks and a bit of training, but some of the adults involved with Scouts have dreadful behaviour.

I have said before that anyone wanting to be a leader needs to have a professional qualification of some description.

One of the leaders I know is not of a professional job and all she wants to do is have water balloon fights. So which badge does this work towards???

This thread has depressed me - my nearly-six year old is waitlisted for Beavers and is very very high energy, to the extent that I've pulled him out of the school's afterschool club where he was indeed running feral (the useless gap year student running it had zero control). I thought Beavers would be more structured and direct his energy into actual activities, but maybe it's a busted flush before we even start.

I'd sign him up for a proper sports club, where he'll actually exercise, learn some skills and be expected to abide by rules.

Beavers is cheap because its run by other parents as volunteers. Occasionally you'll get one with experience with groups of kids but often not - how would you do with 10 of the less well behaved 6 year old boys, limited budget?

It's an inclusive movement. We can't just kick out the annoying ones.

Exactly this.
ive been a leader over 12 years.
Since Covid they’re a nightmare. They run riot, do not listen, don’t know how to line up, how to sit with folded legs.. are rude, aggressive, and to top of off the majority of their parents are massive pains in the butt too. The parents are very entitled, and don’t seem to understand we’re volunteers and not there to answer questions 24/7.
I think you should sign up as a colony assistant @Lskz and see if you can do better running the colony with the children you described.
i can’t see myself staying much longer unfortunately.

We meet in church hall but have no affiliation to church and no church parade etc it’s the only big enough hall in village.
Groups differ a lot depending on leaders and mix of children. I prefer a mix from different schools.