First day at Beavers and shocked

[Lskz]

Hi all,
DS(7)finally got a space at local Beavers and today we had first trial session. Stayed with him and shocked by the children behaviour. 16 children in total, half of them do not listen, just run around, kicking each other, making animal sounds and etc. DS is active child but I think even he's shocked. They did the activity for 10 mins and 1hr trying to calm them down so they can do the activity. There were 4 volunteers which is good ratio I guess. I do understand there might be children with special needs and etc, but it looked most of them copy each other. Is this normal? Somehow I imagined this differently.

Beaver leader here, I spend the majority of my time reinforcing manners kindness and not hitting each other. If they misbehave they sit out and have to explain what part of their beaver promise they’ve broken. If they cry / tantrum due to a firm word they have quiet time sat out.
We have quite a firm volunteer team and liberally tell off.
They are brilliant, feral but exhausting.

I got a shock when I helped out at my daughter’s Rainbows group. I imagined doing crafts with sweet little girls. How wrong was I. The girls were wild- running around the hall, not listening, being rude. I went to Rainbows as a child and it definitely wasn’t like that back then.

My mother worked in a library and she said that school groups were always much noisier when it was rainy.

My DS goes to Beavers and as far as I know they're pretty well behaved.

My friend's DS goes to a different group with someone else I know and says they are wild. I find her DC and the other child really badly behaved (she is very lenient) so if she's saying it's wild, it must be really, really awful.

I am not surprised to hear it tbh, I remember at toddler groups having silent seething rage at people letting their little darlings run absolute riot disrupting the class the whole time, demanding all the attention of the teacher, with indulgent smiling and no attempt to control their little treasure. I suspect those little darlings are now 6-8 years old.

Awards self perfect parent award 😂

My boys went to Beavers and the kids (mainly boys) were wild. My boys loved it though. When my daughter was younger I signed her up for Rainbows as I thought she might not enjoy the mayhem of Beavers. The first night at Rainbows I listened outside the door as the leader said 'ok girls, make a circle.' And they just did! Unlike at Beavers where they had to be asked half a dozen times at least before they would even vaguely comply. I know other posters have said they've found Rainbows groups just as bad as Beavers so it can't be universal but in our experience Rainbows groups are so much calmer!

It's very leader-dependent. There's a balance to be struck between being as strict as school and letting them be totally feral, it's not easy and many leaders have no teaching experience so lack sufficient authority. They're volunteers and totally heroic!

The elephant in the room is children with SEN, who will have a 121 or extra support at school but have no support beyond the basic at Beavers. I've seen some really shocking behaviour, but it really wasn't the kids' fault - nor the leader's! Ideally a parent would stay with them to make sure they cope and don't take up all the leader's time/prevent other kids from participating - however, it can be bloody hard being the parent of a child with additional needs, so they're probably desperate for the tiny break Beavers provides.

I don't know what the answer is, other than more, engaged volunteers who are good at crowd control, like being around kids, and have the patience of saints!

It all depends on the leaders.

I used to run a volunteer led after school care and holiday playscheme and the same children would be vastly different depending on which adults were in that day.

I couldn’t be more complimentary about our beaver group if I tried! I’m sure they all have their moments but the group is so organised, the leaders are all amazing and it appears to be such a well run group. I feel so lucky to have found such a brilliant group as others I know haven’t had such a good experience. Every week they do really engaging activities and at the recent camp they were all praised as to how well behaved they were. I really hope when we move up to cubs it remains the same.

Beavers is near-impossible to get a space at; surely they can just sack the nightmare kids? My parent was a beaver leader in the 90s and sacked at least 2 kids. Squirrel took absolutely no shite.

Like others have said, I think it probably depends on the leaders. I'm a Beaver leader and generally our Beavers are very well behaved. We're lucky to have 7 regular leaders for a colony of 18 Beavers though. Plus 3 of us are teachers and take no shit whatsoever.

We've taken part in events with other colonies where I've been horrified at the behaviour of other Beavers though (and so have our kids!).

Our Beavers had a school teacher and a charge nurse as leaders. It was fairly disciplined and calm. They did a lot of trips out too. I didn’t see much in the way of bad behaviour. However Ds had a whole class party, at soft play, for his 6th birthday. The boys were completely feral and the girls spent the entire time “telling” on the boys or each other or crying that someone had hurt their feelings. Never again!

Imagine being a teacher!

Not surprised in the least that the children are so badly behaved with the methods of parenting that seem to be fashionable these days.

Were they quite hairy children? Maybe you took your child to a club for actual beavers.

Beaver leader here, yes some children can be challenging. Some parents don't help the matter by not disclosing SEN to us. We are in a much better position to support the children if we have the knowledge of their needs. Parents are the experts in their children and really need to help the leaders help their children.
To those posters that say Scouting is useless with SEN thats not necessarily the case. Yes leaders are unpaid volunteers just trying their best and it won't ever be perfect as we can't get to know your child as well as you do when we only spend "one hour a week" with them and some leaders just don't have the skillset but it is frustrating to be tarnished with the same broad statement that we dont care about kids with SEN. We in my local group try to be inclusive as possible and have been encouraging leaders to attend courses provided by our county on how to support neurodivergent members

Absolutely this. All 3 of my boys have been through Beavers (and Cubs& Scouts, eldest to Explorers) & their pack is fantastic. It's run with strong discipline & respect but plenty of fun because of structured activities & badge work. There's also an ASN teacher.

For a PP who said that there's no info about kids with ASN & leaders are left to work it out- that's totally poor planning. Our one has very detailed forms to fill out before a child even starts. My DS3 has just moved up to Scouts & they've communicated with us constantly over the years as he has ASD, ADHD & Epilepsy- always keen to know about meds & effects & ways they can stimulate him/ his likes & dislikes & they bend over to include him.

OP you've jusy stumbled upon a poorly run one.

Stereotyping is my favourite.

My 3 DC have all been through Beavers/Cubs/Scouts and would agree that it's very leader but also cohort dependent. I am not a leader but volunteer for our group in a support role and attend various meetings, we have definitely had more challenging periods than others and that can be very much dependent on an individual group. Things have definitely got worse since Covid too (as they have in schools tbf).

As others have said, it is a very tricky balance because the Scout/Guide Associations are not supposed to have the discipline of school but at the same time kids need to be taught to be respectful. Leaders who are prepared to get a bit tough (and have a good shout when they need to!) are essential.

I agree too that one of the (many) challenges is that Beavers/Cubs often attracts DC who wouldn't cope with any kind of skills or sports based club, and very often that does mean a high level of SEN. Which is fine - my eldest has quite significant SEN and I am so grateful for the experiences he was able to have at Beavers, Cubs and Scouts - but parents do need to be honest with leaders about a child's challenges and the support they may need. I'll never forget the email I received from the leader when DS1 started Scouts - I had sent her a very brief 'this is how best to support DS' type note and she was so grateful, saying how useful that was and that so many parents of DC with SEN never told her anything and just left her to work out that their DC couldn't cope with X or really struggled with Y. Which does no-one any favours in the long term.

Interestingly, I've also been horrified by other Beavers. DS2 once did a huge overnight camp out in the Science Centre, with something like 200 Beavers- loads of cool, night-time avtivities, planetarium etc. He loved it, but I remember collecting him in the morning & being absolutely appalled by some of the behaviour I witnessed & DS's leaders being equally appalled & swearing never again!

Just got in from scouts. They were hyper tonight as it was their first session since July. After a lot of sweaty games, they settled and worked towards a badge. It isn't school, though, so usual class rules are more relaxed.

My DS Beavers group was brilliant as the main leader was a primary school teacher and she had total control over the kids, but my DS absolutely loved it. He's now gone up to Cubs and really struggling with the chaos and noise (he said one of the boys just hides under a table the whole time).

BTW I use ASN for additional support needs, in case anyone wondered. I see many still use SEN on here. It's an expression that's been out of use for a long time here in Scotland. A lot of kids with additional needs may not have educational needs.

I don't understand how lockdown has affected Beavers behaviour to that extent - surely the current Beavers were before school age during Covid so its not as though they knew what they were missing? Plus nurseries were open so lots will still have had socialisation.

This thread has depressed me - my nearly-six year old is waitlisted for Beavers and is very very high energy, to the extent that I've pulled him out of the school's afterschool club where he was indeed running feral (the useless gap year student running it had zero control). I thought Beavers would be more structured and direct his energy into actual activities, but maybe it's a busted flush before we even start.

Beaver Leader here. Tuesday was week 2. We had 10 new kids, 5 new the week before, 22 in total plus 2 cubs who were sitting in. I do not recognise what you describe.
We did the circle and yes, took a few minutes to calm them. Then broke into four groups and rotated round. One group ran across the road and got a raised voice telling off but that was the worst of it. Did the circle at the end and again, took a few attempts at calming them, getting everyone to stand etc. but really just a few minutes.
No way would we tolerate that sort of behaviour.

Oh wow. My 7 yo had her first brownies session recently and it seemed very civilised. Definitely no reports of feral behaviour.