Feral two year old

[Understandtheconcept]

My two year old is just awful: I know terrible twos are a thing, but I honestly didn’t expect it to be this horrific.

I can’t believe I’m actually considering using physical chastisement, I’ve always been totally against any form of smacking but just nothing works and I’m absolutely at breaking point.

I'm with you OP.
This age is the WORST! Can't wait for the terrible 2's to end. He just completely changed overnight once he turned 2. I am smacked, kicked, screamed at every day. He throws himself on the floor screaming when we're out at the shops. He's a monster honestly.
But I also have the most loveliest cuddles and kisses now, especially at home on an evening when he's winding down for bed. It actually makes me forget about the troubles during the day.
It's a phase. It'll pass soon..... I keep telling myself 🤞

@Understandtheconcept
in terms of parenting classes your local health visiting service can signpost to ones geared towards your child’s age.

No two kids are the same. There will always be someone telling you that their kid did this after you said no.

His behaviour does sound extreme but it's difficult to tell how far outside the norm it is.

I would actually focus on how he is at nursery - arrange a meeting with the key person or room manager and get their view on whether his behaviour is within normal or not.
They will have known 100s of 2 year olds and will have a good sense of whether his behaviour is typical but on the challenging side, or if there is something else going on.

Audiology appointment is definitely a good start.

A parenting course (through your health visitor or children's centre) is a great idea if he is a normal but challenging toddler, but if there is something else like autism underlying the behaviour then he will need a different approach.

Stop thinking of him as being unkind or a bully though. He's not, he's just two! He is impulsive and only sees the world in terms of his own wants and needs, because his brain still has a lot of developing to do.

I am neurodiverse and I had a long and interesting career, OP.
You don't need to fear such a diagnosis.
Three of my four children have ASD and they're all well-adjusted adults now.

Hi OP. I have read your posts but not the full thread.

I am a child psychologist.

First off, he is a pandemic baby. We know many only and oldest children who were born or babies in lockdowns have delayed interactive and social skills. They have missed out on socialisation very early on. They need more opportunities for peer based play, not less, because they struggle. Play is where children learn skills of sharing, negotiation, turn taking etc - these are not innate.

Second, having delayed language skills does make toddlers more frustrated and harder to manage. He should be able, at 2.5, to speak in short sentences such as "me want biscuit" or "mummy do it", and he should be able to follow short instructions such as "go get your shoes and your coat" or "would you like an apple or banana?". If not, use visuals to support you - hold up the apple and banana as you offer them, ask him if he wants the blue cup or red cup whilst holding both, that sort of thing.

Play lots of turn taking games - initially rolling a ball back and forth between you, or blowing bubbles and asking if he wants more - getting him to say "more" - plus rhymes and songs with actions that he can anticipate as familiar rituals - Humpty Dumpty with him sat on your lap, while you hold his hands, when you say "fall" open your knees so he slips between them. Row your boat. Round and round the garden. Hide and seek where you hide in an easy place and leave "clues" such as giggling when he's near or have your feet sticking out from behind a curtain. Cover him up and wonder aloud where he's gone. These types of games are so simple but really effective for turn taking, cause and effect, anticipation.

Mostly, don't worry. Kids aren't two forever. Even if he does turn out to have a developmental issue, he will grow change and develop. My eldest as an autistic 20 year old is very different from when he was an autistic 12 year old, or an autistic 6 year old, or an autistic toddler. This too shall pass.

Really sorry to read what is going on for you and your son, OP.
My son had a really challenging phase involving biting and hurting others that resulted in nursery asking us to remove him - if you search for me you will
find the thread. I was at the end of my tether with his behaviour, and ended up with very poor mental health as a result.
He is just 3 now and his behaviour has hugely improved I am pleased to say.

Things that helped us (everyone is different of course - so this may or may not have resonance for you)

1. improved sleep - he was rubbish at sleep since birth. We took the Batelle programme which is all about having clear respectfully held boundaries, and besting absolutely consistent in your responses around sleep - but this also improved our parenting
2. super consistent parenting and nursery strategy. This was facilitated by a 1on1 in nursery for 6 months (you could be eligible for ECHP - I didn’t realise this and it cost me a lot of £ so might be worth checking). On the challenging violent behaviours, our strategy was to (1) prevent the behaviour- eg with biting we would look for signs that it was about to happen and do a number of things to stop him making contact with skin (2) positive redirect- “teeth are for smiling” (3) name the emotion and empathise “you’re feeling angry because you wanted the blue cup, not the green cup. It can be really frustrating to not get things the way you pictured them. It can make us feel angry. It’s ok to feel angry”
3. Occupational Therapy- we went to Petra’s Place in London- it was really amazing. We found out that our DS was having a lot of frustration from poor motor planning, sensory issues with sound and a vestibular system that was more than usually sensitive. They helped him grow his comfort zone, and helped us with a lot of “regulation” strategies
4. we came to understand that his behaviour was a sign of disregulation, not being naughty or defiant- we changed our language in describing him between and approach to parenting him - sensory diet approach - which yes meant less stimulation at times. We had to be more deliberate than parents with “easy kids”
5. Considered some possibility that he might be on the autism spectrum - that’s still very unclear but it’s something that for us is worth exploring- from my perspective it’s just more information about our child and better ways forward come with more information.
6. I’m in therapy myself- it’s been so helpful to figure out why I found his behaviour so triggering, and I’ve found that since doing inner family systems therapy, I’m kinder to myself and I’m on a more even keel as a parent
7. time - sounds so glib but things do change so massively between the age of 2 to 3.

things aren’t perfect all day every day - certainly not. He’s still a full on kid compared to most. He still has outbursts occasionally. But his behaviour is transformed from where it was when he was 2y5m. From being asked to leave to being a very popular boy in the nursery with lots of friends and a healthy and generally happy demeanour.

I really feel for you OP, and I wish you all the very best in this journey. It’s a tough road, but the fact that you are seeking support here tells me you can do this. that You’re a great mum.

feel free to DM me if that’s helpful

@wherethewaterisdarker Cool ok and you’re welcome for the time I took to share my thoughts 👍

Was that really fucking necessary? Such a cheap ass nasty poke at a mum at the end of her tether. A really shitty thing to say. So much for you being "empathetic"

Agreed, there are other kids out there like this. It's just you can't see it at the time because you're so absorbed in your own and they're unlikely to happen when you'd see them. Even when mine was regularly having absolutely biblical tantrums the odds of someone we saw for an hour a week seeing one of the maybe 3 unusual strops a day in that hour we saw them were low because 90% of his waking hours were tantrum recovery or mediocre levels of bad. It just felt totally relentless. Then say you're in the hardest 1% of children - how long is it going to take you to see that other child in 200 that acts like that at the exact point they're doing it? Just because you don't see them doesn't mean they are not there.

How you’re imagining the 3 strikes and you’re out strategy would go down and how parents with difficult toddlers actually manage these situations are really quite different. One of my kids went through a stage of hitting other children. The verbal warning probably happened before he managed to make contact with the other child. It would often make him hesitate but not stop the behavior. And it wouldn’t be a gentle ´no darling, hitting is not very nice, could you stop that please.´ It would be ´NO! WE DON’T HIT!’ At a volume and tone that would make him turn around. Often I got there before he actually hit the other child and was able to grab hold of his arms. Then time out would happen. And we’d try again with me watching like a hawk from an arms length away. If he went to hit the child again he would be whisked out of there tucked under my arm like a parcel, probably screaming his head off. So no, parents in this situation generally don’t allow their child to hit another 3 times before leaving.

There are a lot of very kind posts on here and in particular I want to thank @LazJaz and @DrRuthGalloway for their time, they were long and helpful posts. Normally I am a bit more positive and patient but I am unwell myself and combined with ds at soft play - where I did lose my rag, which in turn made me feel awful - I was as someone rightly said at the absolute end of my tether.

@DrRuthGalloway to expand a bit more on ds development, he has quite a lot of words, so can communicate needs eg ‘milk’ and ‘more’ and ‘poo’ (lovely!) he can ask for certain songs and so on. He has started to add a ‘please’ voluntarily (sometimes.) He always does when I prompt him. If you ask him what he wants he often says no, eg would you like an orange or a banana ‘no’ but then a moment later will ask for the orange. I assumed this was general awkwardness for this age?

In the last few weeks two word sentences have become more the norm. Three words aren’t quite there yet, we have had some, what doing mummy, what is it, no my bike, but basic and as I say very simplistic compared to a lot of kids his age.

Behaviour wise it’s hard to explain, as toddlers do have tantrums, mostly it is aggression towards others that is a worry. And no, he is not a bully but it is very upsetting to see and very isolating for me if I can’t see friends. Often I can manage behaviour with distraction, praise (sort of preempting an issue and exclaiming that wow, I’m so happy you’re going straight into your car seat …) and so on, but when he’s in the moment of going for another kid it’s difficult to stop him. What DOES work is ‘woah gentle hands’ and miming a stroke, but it’s easier said than done in that moment. If I can see he’s about to push or hit and I say gentle hands it does halt him but if he’s not right next to me or it happens too fast then that’s hard. But that’s good as it does show he listens to me. I just find it very upsetting on a personal level, just being honest about that here. People are not kind about aggressive children, in some ways I’m lucky as ds still looks small and cute so people still respond to him more as a baby than a child, but that window is getting smaller every day and I am worried he’s going to be ‘that’ child, we’ll both lose friends.

There are many positives about him, don’t think these posts are just how it is. But yesterday was just one of those really awful days where I needed a rock to hide under.

Hope today is a better day OP.

It definitely wasn't necessary, but was your (far ruder and more personally insulting) response to me really necessary either? It feels a bit disproportionate for a snarky remark. We are not always our 'best' selves online, or IRL for that matter. (Isn't that kind of what this whole post is about?) You cut the second half of my post too, which doesn't really feel like playing fair, where I explain why I was being a bit snappy - I too am an exhausted mum of a 2 year old. (I do get snippy when posters don't say thanks for considered responses, but suspect this means I am just not made for the slightly brutal waters of mumsnet at this stage of my knackered life.)

Sorry for derailing. Good luck OP and sorry for being sarcastic - I really do know how tough it is and understand that desperate end-of-tether feeling.

@Morningcoffeeview he had language delay and the paediatrician asked for a routine hearing check before ASD diagnosis. He has been on a waiting list for grommets since he was three but will now point to his ears when they hurt (this generally coincides with his deafness being worse). I’d guess the pain is due to pressure in his ears???
I now give Calpol and Nurofen and he’s a different child.

Hi is he any better now ? ☺️

Zombie thread.

The OP hasn't posted since they started this thread 18 months ago so unlikely to be back.