Feral two year old

[Understandtheconcept]

My two year old is just awful: I know terrible twos are a thing, but I honestly didn’t expect it to be this horrific.

I can’t believe I’m actually considering using physical chastisement, I’ve always been totally against any form of smacking but just nothing works and I’m absolutely at breaking point.

I don't think you're missing anything obvious. He sounds like he has very challenging behaviour, more than the usual toddler tantrums. Some of these responses are really simplistic. I'd probably want to be going to the health visitor or I don't know if nursery can do any referrals or assessments, just to see if they think there is anything else going on.

There is an online course by Yale called the ABCs of parenting which is suitable for all ages. It's free, it's on Coursera. I've decided to do it just to see what it says and whether it's helpful. It apparently has a section on when to seek professional help although I haven't got to that bit yet. Don't know what I think of it yet, but it is meant to be evidence based so probably not a bad one to look at. It is at least something to point at and say I'm doing the strategy as recommended in X course and it's still ineffective, when you're speaking to anyone who can offer you any kind of assessment.

I’m so sorry you’re having such a tough time OP. I have a child who’s pretty full on and can be challenging, but it’s nothing like you’re describing. The best advice I can give is to be really honest with HV /nursey staff and all professionals you come across about just how challenging he is and ask for whatever help is available - sometimes it’s the other people you meet or the whole body of information that can help most, so don’t be put off if something doesn’t seem a perfect fit.

A close friend of mine had a child like this - and of course she read all the books and tried all the techniques, and it was really hard because people would say “oh yes mine used to do x, y, z” but what their child was doing, the extent of it, the ferocity of it etc was actually nothing like what her child was doing. It really got her down because it made her feel as though she was failing when everyone else was succeeding.

It turned out that in fact her child had some pretty significant sensory issues/ADHD and (she is now waiting to hear from assessments) possible autism. The things others could reasonably expect from their children, her son just could NOT deliver. It wasn’t his fault or hers. She says she felt immense relief when she got a diagnosis because it made her realize she wasn’t getting it all wrong, she really was dealing with some additional challenges.

This, obviously, may not be the case for your son but if he does have challenges I hope you’ll keep you’re eye out for that and take any opportunity for/even push for assessments etc. Just understanding what’s going on can be helpful and freeing, even though it doesn’t mean the challenges stop!

There’s a book called “understanding your child’s sensory signals” by Angie Voss which my friend found really useful as a starting point. She also took some things out his diet which made a difference to his manageability when he was little, so might be worth googling around allergies/food dye etc. I’d also say that if you can stop screen time, and especially veto morning screen time, I would give that a try.

Parenting is so hard at the best of times - if you have a DP, friends or family you can off load on or vent to when you’re about to lose your shit that can be a massive help too. Good luck xx

I don’t find it reassuring at all to think that there might be additional needs at play. It horrifies me, because then rather than it being something that hopefully gets better at 3, 4, whenever, it’s something we both have for life. It makes the future seem a very bleak place indeed. But thank you both for your kindness.

Will also say I spent a fortnight full time with her and her son when he was around 2.5 and, although I thought he was exhausting, I didn’t think “gosh look at ALL these alarm bells” he wasn’t behind developmentally, he could be really sweet/good value (in small doses) and you could explain all of his behaviour with “he’s just a toddler/tired/hungry/finding it hard to manage his emotions” etc But as a pattern over time it became clear there was more to it. Just saying - it’s not always blindingly obvious.

Not necessarily true that children with additional needs are just as challenging for life. Many of them do get better, they are just different to their peers. If skills are delayed at 2 they may still be delayed at 3 or 4, but the 2yo techniques and needs specific approaches will likely work better (because they might be closer to an average 2yo level) and make things easier. You can also identify triggers in the environment, such as sensory triggers, which can make a difference.

Don't panic. There will be a way forward for you and him. And he's very little, so it's quite possible that there are just some specific delays which he will grow out of and aren't related to any diagnosis at all. For example speech and language difficulties can cause children to be frustrated which may spread into everything else.

You have my sympathies. My son is 2 and at times I want to rip my hair out. Fortunately it isn't all the time. Every child is different and to be honest all these "techniques" can be very overwhelming and from experience one day one thing works amazingly and you think you've cracked it and the next it doesn't even touch the sides of his behaviour! I'm finding that as he is nearing 3 we tend to have more good days then bad so that gives me hope.
If you have truly tried everything and are clearly at the end of your tether, it may be worth reaching out to see if he has any additional needs. I realise it will in no way bring any comfort if he does, but it could mean that you would be offered a lot more support.

I wish I could believe that, but I doubt it! From what i can see it seems a very bleak road and one I’d rather remain in denial about for a very long time. It’s so hard knowing, and I am more inclined to think it’s probably my parenting to be honest. I just genuinely don’t know what else I can do.

As you’ve said, something may work one day but not the next. and it’s very difficult gauging where his understanding is. I sense he understands but chooses not to, if that makes sense. For instance nursery say he knows his colours but he just says everything is red to me.

Do you have a partner? Do you work? How many days is he in nursery? What do you do on days one to one with him?

It seems like you've had a bit of a tough time with him recently and forgive me for suggesting but maybe you are stuck in a bit of a rut? Are you able to have a bit of a break (eg taking a day's annual leave while he's at nursery and doing something for you? Or he spends time with a family member at the weekend?) And then plan a day with him that is really focused on doing what he enjoys. Really engage with him and praise good behaviour. What is his routine like in terms of sleep/naps/food?

I work two days a week. I honestly don’t think we’re in a rut, I really do try hard - maybe too hard - to keep him occupied and interested in things. This week our usual toddler groups haven’t been open since it’s the Easter holidays, but we have still been to one running an Easter special, we’ve been swimming, visited the library, the park, soft play. Yesterday DH and I hired a little boat and went round the park, fed ducks. Then soft play today. He’s also spent a couple of days in nursery as normal.

Routine wise we’re not bad although naps are a struggle. I generally try to time things so he’ll fall asleep in the car.

He's likely getting to the end of needing daily naps which can be a hellish time.

How do you think his hearing is? Glue ear can contribute massively to "poor" behaviour as they can't understand as well what is being said nor communicate to others.

I don't have any helpful advice, OP, but just wanted to send you a hug and I hope it gets better My son has challenging behaviour too, though in different ways, and it's really hard when they just seem different from the others.

How’s his speech and communication OP? My now 4 year old was a nightmare two year old, he’s got better and better from 3 onwards and is a pleasure (mostly) now. His speech was a little delayed and once he caught up the worst of it stopped.

Thanks for these kind replies. I do appreciate them.

Speech … tricky, tricky. He’s both completely normal and way behind, and if that’s contradictory then that’s how I feel as well. No concerns flagged at nursery (although I do wonder) and he seems to be following a normal ish pattern. But even so when I’m with other toddlers they seem to have much better speech than him.

My son was like this at 2 (and 3, and 4). He's now 8 and has calmed down loads, but it was really rough for a long time. My older and younger sons (he's in the middle) aren't anything like it, so whilst I think there's lots about my parenting which didn't help, I'm sure it's not all down to that.

At 2 we would have hour long screaming meltdowns, where he relentlessly tried to destroy anything in reach (furniture, toys etc). He would kick, bite and hit me if I was close by, and would follow me to do so, many times I would be doing my best to hold him at arms length like a pissed off cat whilst he tried to hurt me. "Firm no" or "give him a cuddle till he calms down" were so far away from being useful. We couldn't even leave him in a quiet, safe space to calm down as he would do anything he could to destroy the space (so violently I always worried he'd hurt himself), get out of the space, and follow me to try and hurt me.

We never really found a way to manage it in the moment, but we did get much, much better at learning what would trigger it. So we micromanaged every second of every day to try and avoid a meltdown, though still had at least one tantrum a day.

It was a pretty bleak time to be honest. Not helped by no-one else really getting it, he often behaved much better when we were around other people, saving the really testing times for home or when we were out on our own. So no-one really saw it.

By 5 he was much easier, at 6 and 7 he felt calmer still.

It's a million times better now at 8, though he's still very reactive and impulsive. We are very good at managing him now, though I'm finding the last few years have completely worn me down and my temper is very short these days. I'm quick to shout, which never helps. Generally at school he's an angel, but they're starting to see glimmers of what we see. He's extremely bright. Possible ASD or ADHD have been talked about.

This isn't helpful really as I have no useful tips, just weary solidarity.

Hello OP, you have my sympathies, I have a v difficult one, now 7. A few thoughts. Have you thought about making the day more predictable? So rather than lots of different activities just go to the same places over and over. Eg, go to park, feed ducks, come home. Every Friday go swimming. Try and avoid over stimulating places like soft play - it's the worst place for a highly strung child, noisy, busy and full of strangers. The reason all the other kids are well behaved is that the parents of challenging kids have learnt not to bother!!

You could also try "now and next" to communicate what's happening, you can look it up. Using count downs to give him warning of change so that it isn't a shock.

Parents of easy kids won't ever get it.

I'd also suggest speaking to your health visitor. They will probably tell you it's too early to know if it's just a phase or additional needs but they can give support even if it's just confirming that you are doing the right things.

They vary massively at this age so the bar for intervention is quite high. It was recognised my son had a delay but the “treatment” was watch and wait. Which I did and it was fine. They get really frustrated if they can’t communicate.

How do you find you manage the behaviour? I know as soon as I lost patience my son was 100X worse and I couldn’t be anything other than Mary Poppins as he just knew and that would make him worse.

I found wireless headphones and something calm helped me to stay calm and so better manage him.

My son could not be reasoned with when he was having a tantrum, I was sure he didn’t listen to me at all but now he recites all my lectures about kindness etc to his younger brother so it wasn’t wasted and was going in on a deeper level. I’d say he took longer to be receptive to gentle parenting techniques than the books would have you believe and that was quite frustrating, but I know now I was laying foundations even if at the time it all felt pointless and repetitive.

My son dropped his naps at 2 aswell and that was difficult.

It helped me to recognise his behaviours as big feelings he couldn’t make sense of himself and just plough on ignoring a lot of it. If you can’t think of anything constructive to do doing nothing and staying calm is absolutely fine. Sometimes they’re too “far gone” to listen to reason. So if you can just sit and wait for it to pass.

I would look at techniques for ASD pre-schoolers and use those, they will probably work better than anything else.

Routine routine routine.

I echo just not bothering with over stimulating environments. My son would never leave soft play without a fight so I parked it, he came round and is fine now. Same for things like eating in a cafe etc.

Well if it helps, my 14yo has ADHD. He was fairly OK at 2 but a real challenge between 3-5, violent, angry, hyper, argumentative, I was tearing my hair out and could have posted same as you.

He is 14 now and totally chilled. It got slightly easier when he was six and so much easier when he was 7. I think his frustration tolerance and ability to cope with demands being placed on him was really lagging at those ages compared with the environment around him, and as he grew it caught up and things got much easier. We are only just looking into medication now as he's starting to need it for school, didn't need it earlier.

And if the cause is something medical, like glue ear as PP said, or enlarged adenoids affecting his sleep for example, or some issue meaning he needs a specific diet etc then there might even be a total fix.

Remember that the posts you see on MN of posters struggling with older kids with SN are probably the severe cases. Many many people have kids with SN and bumble along in fairly ordinary lives, having found ways to live and manage the conditions. At the moment it's like you're trying to navigate in a wood with lots of tripping hazards and it's totally dark and you can't see anything. So investigating potential medical/developmental causes of this behaviour is kind of like giving you a lantern. If there are big rocks and brambles and fallen trees to climb through then it will be easier if you can see them. But it might also be that there is a clear path out, but you couldn't see it before because it was dark.

Do you have support from family/in-laws etc? That can make things a lot easier as well.

Are you sure he doesn’t have hearing problems?? He sounds exactly like my son who has glue ear. My son didn’t speak until he was four years old and then it became obvious he had been in pain for some years before. He can now point at photos and says head hurty…. He remembers the pain and it’s so shit no one realised and helped. I was repeatedly told he had ASD and nursery kept putting it down to bad parenting. I had a nervous breakdown (for this and other reasons) I ended up on antidepressants.
He is 6 and so gorgeous now he can tell me how he feels. He was really violent as a toddler and in all honesty I was scared of him. There was no reasoning with him and I was an exhausted mess. Now he’s unbelievably gentle and kind.

How did you find out? I didn’t realise glue ear was painful.

Sounds like my ds who has adhd and autism.

He was such hard work between 2 and 5. Some things got easier and some got harder. Everything settled now he's 11 and medicated.

I think this a bit too nuanced for a 2yr old. All they’ll hear is ‘ice-cream’ or ‘feed the ducks’, and then have a tantrum when it doesn’t happen immediately!

I really feel for you OP. It's hard work. I'm sorry that you are feeling so hopeless.

At this point I would try to lower my expectations for his behaviour. Try to second guess the trigger points for him getting frustrated and minimise them as much as possible.

You mentioned bullying...so could you do things that he's not surrounded by other kids as much. Or simply just choose the quieter corner or the play group? Little tweaks in response to how his behaviour is now.

When he has the secondary reaction after giving him a bit of space to kick etc I would try to distract him...with anything like look theirs a bird. Or have a little toy on your pocket which you only get out to distract with. And change it each day.

Is there anything at all you can do to make your life easier to deal with all the tantrums? Do you need more sleep? Is it possible to ask for more support from partner or family or friends?

Is your schedule working for you and him? Do you need to do less? Can you delegate anything at all to anyone?

I really hope you feel supported here. Please ignore any unhelpful comments.

💐💐💐💐

What's his communication like? Can he speak and communicate his needs well?