AIBU for feeling weird about what I saw at my daughter’s nursery?

[Probablytired]

My 12 month old daughter has just finished her second week (mon-wed) at nursery. She’s adjusting okay but things could be better, like sleep. I know that’s to be expected though. Today she actually slept really well and came out super happy, but something I saw before that flagged up to me as strange.

Overall, we chose this nursery because of the play environment and how the staff came across as genuinely caring and kind during our visits, but as I was waiting to pick my daughter up today I heard one of the staff shout loudly at a little boy. It was in the slightly older toddlers room, I believe that’s from 17 months, and the little boy was climbing onto the food table (I could see this through the door window). She screamed from across the room ‘GET OFF RIGHT NOW’, stormed over, grabbed the little boy under the arms and roughly put him on the floor. He started crying and nobody comforted him. She then spotted me through the glass pane and I noticed that she went over to him then and calmly said ‘I asked you not to climb on the table’ and comforted him. The manager was sitting in her office with the door open next to us so she would’ve heard it too, and she didn’t bat an eyelid.

Something just isn’t sitting right with me. Did she really need to shout at him like that? They’re only very young still, and handling him like that felt very rough and unnecessary. Thinking back if I’d seen her doing it with my child I would have marched straight into the room and said something, and then I feel bad because that’s somebody else’s child and they might feel the same way but they don’t know about it.

how would you respond to this? Nursery is very new to me, so I don’t know if I’m being overly sensitive, all I know is that we don’t shout at our daughter because shouting gets nobody anywhere and is demeaning when she can’t defend herself. I don’t really expect the workers at a nursery I’m paying £95 a day for to be shouting at my child either. What’s your view? I think I need some perspective

Childminders are even worse!

Childminders concern me more because it’s just one person.

In nurseries, and certainly where my children go, I think if you have a strong room lead and management it will flow down to the rest of the staff.

The room leads at my nursery have been there a long time and are really passionate so the staff work with them. I’ve viewed some nurseries where there didn’t feel like there was a lead and it really shows.

But with a CM it’s just one person totally unsupervised. I’m sure there’s wonderful ones, but on the whole I think nurseries are likely to be a safer option.

Trust your gut, it's really important here. I've removed my child from nursery for exactly that reason and don't regret it for a second. I found a lovely childminder that I trusted instead.

The change in behaviour when she caught your eye tells you everything.

@YourMagicSwirlingShip it is absolutely 100 percent the truth what I saw on every nursery I worked in , I was saving money on a gap year after uni ( I like children , had loads of neices and nephews and all they did was police vet me , I had zero childcare qualifications) . I am definitely not saying that all ppl who work they are uneducated etc , absolutely not but no I never came across in the crèche /nursery (and some were considered v good ) workers with degrees in childcare (maybe management but they weren’t doing the main work there , the caregiving ) it was all mainly younger women who I’m sorry to say were far from ideal in that job, that was 100 percent my experience.
Everything I described I saw time and time again, it’s the truth . As a pp said preschools tend to be very different, much shorter shifts (far easier for staff) , older women who are also mothers. Where I live people who work in crèches are not paid during their holidays , they aren’t salaried , they can’t get made permanent; is this different where you are ?
This also caused huge turnover , resentment etc. I actually agree with your points , I don’t think they are glorified babysitters, I wish that they would be paid properly for very hard , important work (your language is a bit grim if you do work in childcare tbh)
Children’s brains do all their main growing in the early years , you can’t go back on the first three years , they are essentially the blueprint for the rest of your life. Unless absolutely necessary there’s no way I would have left my dcs in one of those places and yes it was really , really difficult for work and money but now all in school, working in my career etc so it’s worked out . I just feel crap for parents who don’t see the half of it and what im
talking about are crèches /nurseries not preschools. Incidentally what qualifications in the UK do you need to work in a crèche , qqi levels 5 /6?

@Nuevabegin I don't think we have crèches like that in the UK. I've never come across them.

@WantToBeHappyAndHealthy my above post was for you not @Morningcoffeeview

made a mistake in quoting @Morningcoffeeview

@NurseryNurse10 @Kanaloa this was exactly my experience also of working in several (it was years ago though as a student). Thing is and you see it in the responses people.don’t.want.to.hear.it.
In fairness if you have to work and have no other childcare options it’s extremely difficult. I know what I saw time and time again, even in the “ok” ones children were inside far , far too long , stuck in high hairs for too long , sometimes even forcefully fed. I hated every one of the places , awful.
Imagine how boring it must be hours in a stuffy , smelly, noisy room. They just aren’t good settings and I agree also childminders on their own risky also . It’s c difficult for working parents. I really believe if there was better pay and conditions this whole sector could be massively transformed. I have the upmost respect for decent childcare providers and just wish there were loads more. I just feel it’s important to talk about what I saw. It’s like anywhere were ppl are vulnerable and can’t talk (care homes etc.), most children in crèches/nurseries can’t speak so they are v v vulnerable. I think that was one of the things that stuck with me years ago , they couldn’t say how they felt all day at handover. I also know how incredibly difficult it is to work and have zero childcare, been juggling with dh for years.
BTW I would never, ever leave a child kicking a screaming in protest at one of these places , listen to them , listen to your gut.

@Nuevabegin . I have 20 years experience of childcare and a good few in nurseries. The only one I would leave my own kid in is the one which is small and a family feel. Part of a chain but not one of the larger ones. Instead they really focus on colleagues being what makes them work. Mix of ages in terms of workers and all qualified or on the way to being so. I have reported a ton of nurseries to ofsted. I have-
Been told not to cuddle babies as they will get spoilt.
Witnessed kids of all ages being yelled at.
Photos are mainly all 'staged'. Quick 5 minutes with a art and craft activity to make it look like the child was getting a lot of interaction.
Staff not interacting with kids but chatting about their social lives.
Parents being lied to about their kids behaviour or what they have done throughout the day.
So much more. Many of which other nursery workers have mentioned on here.
Childminders I agree can also be bad but they are usually out and about more so you get more of a sense of what is going on. In nurseries, a lot goes on behind closed doors.

Many CMS work with others....assistants and X minders.....lots of things happen in nurseries despite others seeing it. In a cm setting you get to see how your lo is with that person and the other children. In many nurseries it's a door handover to one of many including temp staff.
If you hand your child to the same person everyday and they are happy and excited it's a pretty good indication they are being treated well, if your child doesn't want to go home it's a good indication they are being treated well. You get a feel for the relationship.

@NurseryNurse10 that’s true re childminders as often out and about him public. Yes , I saw everything that you mentioned. One place I found really manipulative was a place were kids were on and off crying all day , the poor things were just bored silly and exhausted, toddlers spend hours going around pulling toys off each other and crying , understimulated etc , then just before pick up they would gather all the kids on a big table and give them a cookie and milk , all the kids would naturally be happy. The parents would all “awwww” “they don’t want to leave” etc when they collected. This was generally a bad place during the day and the vast majority of kids were unhappy, they were shouted at , I remember workers arguing over who had to change who , it was depressing and sad. I felt v bad for the parents and I did try and tell some when I was leaving but I was only early 20’s and prob not confident enough. Also the smell in these places and those poor kids are in their all day , kids have a sense of smell too ffs. And it’s obviously normal when you have that many toddlers in one room. Anyway it informed my choices and glad I had some experience in the past as otherwise how would ppl know..

Yes @Nuevabegin that all sounds familiar. Hate how so much of an act is put on for the parents benefit.

Show-rounds too. Can’t count how many times a deputy or manager came flying round going ‘show round, show round!’

Why does that matter? Surely we should go on exactly as we are so that the parents being shown the nursery can see the nursery as it is when their child will be there? But no, it’s a quick tidy up, big cuddles for any crying/whingey children, every member of staff out on the floor entertaining and playing on kids’ level… until the parents walk back out the door of course.

Oh yes @Kanaloa parent walks in, manager comes up 'Quick. Do an activity with this group, we have a show around.' Or if anyone other than the parent is collecting 'Archie'a aunt is collecting today, make sure that when she sees you, you are engaging in an activity with him.'

That's horrific and I would make my feelings clear to the Nursery Manager. Then take my child out of there. Simple as.

Nursery = trusting your most precious thing to a teenager with 1 grade 3 GSCE and an NVQ L2, on min wage.

Really? At ours almost all of them have a degree in early years education (plus they have qualified teachers in the preschool rooms) and they pay more than minimum wage (although pay is still low). It’s an absolutely lovely setting. They have a couple of apprentices but the majority of staff are over 30 and very well qualified.

I don’t recognise the mumsnet stereotype of nursery staff at all. Our nursery pays sick pay, has good holidays and staff work a 4 day week for full time. They have had almost no turnover in the time we were there. A few mat leaves but only 2 people left in 4 years and a fair few send their own kids (with a big discount).

If I could afford the pay cut I’d work there myself, they all seem to love what they do.

Legally there has to be a level 3 in each room with 50% of other workers at level 2. There are unqualified nursery workers but you have to have the minimum at the above qualifications.

Zombie thread

Honestly reading this thread has made me feel sick with anxiety.
I have to find new childcare for my son soon am and considering nurseries but this has really put me off, although I know the same can be true for a childminder.
I would not handle this well at all, and although I am usually quite rational, I would absolutely lose my shit at anyone who dared treat my child that way.

This is my experience too.

I've often found that those with pp's opinion have either worked in a poor quality nursery and assumes they are all the same or is a SAHM and it's just an additional judgement to working mothers.

I have as I said worked in many nurseries and would only leave my child in just one that I attended. It's a family style,small groups and staff are all qualified except one young girl. Honestly if I were a parent I would be looking more for childminders. Of course there are bad ones but they are usually out and about more, mix with other childminders etc. I couldn't in all good faith recommend a nursery, especially for very young babies. No judgement on those who do, I am just basing it on my extensive personal experience. I have never been in one where staff are all highly qualified either. Many are scrabbling around to find level 3's. I have been to around 15 in my lifetime and many are much and the same unfortunately. Many put on a good show for parents but it doesn't reflect the reality a lot of the time.