Doorstepped by angry mum

[mummymcphee]

Was at home yesterday afternoon enjoying some quiet time without the kids when I looked out to see one of the mums from school marching up my path with her DD 11 who was crying.

She wanted to confront my DD for excluding her DD f excluding her and not inviting her to a sleepover during half term.

Her DD looked very upset and the mum was demanding we got the girls together on the spot to discuss my DD bullying her daughter. She said a voicemail had been sent from my DD's phone from an older girl telling her not to join them for skateboarding as she wasn't welcome as she had sworn at them all the previous night.

I was aware that the DD of angry mum had sworn at the girls and tbh has said some awful things in the past and the school has dealt with it really well.

Anyway the mum told me I was pathetic and probably didn't even know where my DD was and that she was going to discuss it all with the head teacher ( for context mum is head of PTA) after half term. She mentioned I was shaking.... I was as I was feeling ambushed in my safe space. TBH I feel sorry for her DD as she seems very unhappy.

Any ideas how I should approach this should I email the school ? Everything that has happened took place in half term so I don't know why she is going to them.

Hi OP I’m sorry you got yelled at on your doorstep, she was not entitled to lash you with verbal aggression. I don’t think she should have come with her tearful DD in tow either, as this would just make the situation more inflamed and upsetting for her too. All I can think is that nothing is more personal than your own child’s well-being and happiness. If something happened and you think someone has hurt your child, well I can see how it could make a (usually sane parent) flip out and spin out of all reason and emotional control. I am not condoning her actions at all, but this seems like she temporarily lost her shiz, because her baby is hurting.

Possibly neither party are blameless here, but equally it could well be bullying and your DD is trying to cover up by reporting ill behaviour from this girl and using that as an excuse to exclude her. If the girl (DD of angry mum) did say mean things., it may be she’s acting out and something else is going on under the surface (11 is a tricky age, inbetweeny, huge melting pot of hormones and emotions going on, can be a v anxious time trying to fit in with peers etc) but also sounds like she cares very much about being liked/ accepted by your DD and friends, as she was very upset about being excluded from the sleepover.

To be honest, you can’t tell for certain that your own DD and friends haven’t been bullying this other girl (and that the DD of angry mum might not have been saying mean things, but just a cover reason for excluding her?) It does sound a bit unusual to say obnoxious stuff that would upset your DD and STILL be expecting to be on friendly terms and get invited for a sleep over?? Something doesn’t add up. And the phone message from a different girl on your DD phone, I’d want to know what happened here.

I would start by speaking to your DD and explain that this girl is very upset and try to get the bottom of what’s really going on.

Agree with point 2, keep an open mind. This girl sounds like a loner or someone who’s excluded because of her behaviour yes, but that’s still painful for her and may make her seek attention.

Check your daughter wasn’t the one in the background calling her a bitch in the voicemail and don’t underestimate how much your daughter could be influenced by her friends

@margesimpson40 calm down dear 🙄 massive overreaction to a harmless comment.

This discussion trying to figure out ‘which one of them is a bully?’ is pointless. It is impossible for anyone on here to know. I suspect though that if you ask either of them they both probably feel bullied by the other one and they are both entitled to their feelings.

The other mother mother was not entitled to come knocking on @mummymcphee door if she was going to behave aggressively particularly with her DD in toe. She needs to sort it with her own DDs and support her DD in dealing with her own issues. If she did want to speak to the OP calmly without her own daughter there that could have been productive but not what she did.

In the end of the day though the “friendship” is not a good or a healthy one for either girl so it is up to the mothers individually to tell them to focus elsewhere for better friendships.

Crikey @margesimpson40 what a total over-reaction to an amusing light-hearted comment. Can’t imagine @Crossthebridge is too bothered about what you think either!

There’s a hell of a lot of projection going on on this thread. There’s no evidence that OP’s DD is a bully. OP the other mum is batshit. Why in earth would your DD want to invite her nasty daughter to the sleepover? She’s completely justified in excluding her. Please don’t cancel it. If you do then the bullies have won.

She did ambush you at home and that is outrageously aggressive behavior. Sounds like her d is imitating her mother.

I think you are handling this well. She had no right to come onto your property uninvited and start an argument. The school needs to know as they’ve had to deal with her before. I agree she is picking on you because you are a single mother and therefore an easy target in her eyes.

Don’t cancel! Unless your dd was truly unkind to her dd, then you are in the right and your dd is right to not invite her if she is not a nice girl. Truly depends on how it all happened which we were not privy to.

My dd was low level bullied in year 7 by an older girl (will call her Sophie) months on end at the behest of one of dd’s friends (will call her Lisa). Lisa was quite controlling and didn’t like dd having a whole other group of friends and as a result got Sophie involved.

I would say your dd needs to be told categorically it is unacceptable for the older girl to gang up on the crying girl. It doesn’t matter what the crying girl is like. Or what issues she has. The girl is obviously struggling, getting zero support and being taught the wrong things at home as her mum sounds bonkers. However, none of this justifies a girl 3 years older siding against her. The age gap is huge and the girl, young for her age or not, will be far more sophisticated. My dd is year 10 btw and I cannot imagine her bullying a year 7, which is the same age gap and incidentally a similar age gap between my dd and Sophie.

As for the sleepover, I would let it go ahead but warn your dd if you discover she is encouraging the older girl to bully the excluded girl, you will cancel. Lisa and Sophie used to call my dd up just to be nasty. It’s actually something pretty common in this age group. Lisa and a mutual friend (will call her Katie) regularly used to contact dd on a play date or sleepover and my dd wasn’t to try to make her jealous. Lisa’s mum is similarly bonkers and knew nothing of what her dd put my dd through until the friendship dissolved. I let Katie’s mum know about the calls as it kept happening so she spoke to Katie and is better at guiding her. Dd is still friends with Katie but not Lisa.

Just to say I would keep an eye on this. Unless one of the girls needs their phone, eg type 1 diabetic monitoring, I would also have a no phones in the bedroom. The phones can be somewhere within easy reach, perhaps just outside the bedroom door for if one of girls needs to phone home. That way the girls won’t be tempted to contact anyone to make them jealous.

Your child sounds like the bully here. Having had to deal with a crying distressed DD I can quite understand the other mothers reaction. Have really had to try hard not to react like that.
You seem very unwilling to even look at your daughters role in this.

I wonder who taught this isolated girl these horribly hurtful things to say to your daughter in the first place? The same bully who showed up at your house today. The reason this child is isolated is because she is parroting the same incredibly biased and inappropriate bullshit she is subjected to in her home. I wouldn’t be surprised if her mother is so utterly lacking in empathy that also bullies her daughter at home, blaming her for her “stupidity”, etc. rather than accepting responsibility for role modeling better behaviour and working on her self-esteem. She has absolutely no concept of boundaries when it comes to OP’s daughter.
BTW, @mummymcphee … I think you should tell your daughter that she is absolutely allowed to say no to this woman if she is being compared to the bully child in any way. Or if she is being asked to do anything at all. Maybe just have a chat with the teacher and come up with something that your daughter can say to this woman if she is ordered around like “I’ve been told to stay away from you and your daughter.” Then it removes the power trip and your DD can get on with her day without being put down by an adult.

Is your daughter a bully or not? Being 100% sure i knew the answer to that is where I would focus . The rest is irrelevant.

It’s obvious from this reply that you’re in denial regarding the role your daughter has played in this. Yes, you’ve commented on the likelihood she’s up to her ears in what’s going on but it’s been very wispy washy.

Cancel the sleepover and start looking at your daughter and her friendship groups differently. Tell the girls you need time out from the situation as you think there are lots of lies being told, that you doubt they’re innocents, and going forward things will be different. This business about your daughter not knowing her phone was being used to send nasty messages is the same as another child saying ‘but they made me do it’.

As For the other mother - if she appears at your door again just don’t open it then report it to the school given she’s the head of the PTA.

@mummymcphee I'm not sure it's useful to go down the "who's the bully?" route. Even the nicest child can be horrible, when in the wrong company. You presumably have no choice but to work, but I suspect some of the problems are related to the time you are not spending with your daughter after school. I think I'd be trying to find an alternative, as this is not going to get any better once she goes to secondary school.

Gosh. So much drama about girls being nasty. 12 yo girls often are. I know I was.
I wouldn't answer the door to angry mum again.
I would also take the phone off your daughter for a week or 2. Let things calm down.

I find it best to apply a light touch when it comes to friendship issues- it's all he said she said stuff. The other mum sounds like a bonkers helicopter parent. She'll probably still be doing this when they are 24. I'd just have a talk with my daughter about it, about kindness but also about sticking up for yourself when someone is rude to you.

I'd ask the mum what she thought this was going to achieve?

This 💯

Sorry @mummymcphee but teachers aren't the font of all knowledge on this, they are human too and can just as easily miss things snd play favourites.

One thing that still shocks me is that teachers continue to go after the outcasts and the ones who react and never look at who was provoking them.

It is extremely difficult for an individual to bully a group. The power dynamic isn't right, there is strength in numbers. This girl may have sworn and said unpleasant things to your DDs group, but why? What has been said or done first? Trying to point fingers at who's the bully is academic at this point, it's become a cycle. Your DD and her friends don't like this girl so exclude her and sent nasty voice notes, the girl retaliates by swearing and saying nasty things and so it goes around again.

The best thing is to stop the dynamic by splitting the group. I too am concerned about this older girl. Your DD didn't stop her using her phone, so she is compliant in this. Standing by when someone else is bullying is still bullying because she's complicit in it. Why on earth isn't there a passcode or some sort of security on your DDs phone?! That's basic safety and they're taught never to share their passwords in Internet safety lessons.

Even if your DD isn't directly responsible, you need to take steps to stop her involvement as the other girl clearly feels she is an instigator. Other Mum might have overstepped and been aggressive but that doesn't absolve your DDs involvement. Being part of a group who is bullying and doing nothing about it makes you just as much of a bully. Please make that clear to your DD.