How do parents manage with toddlers/babies and no family support

[NC3435]

BG - my husband and I are both doctors. He works FT and I work 80% (one day off a week). We have a 1.5 year old DS who attends nursery 4 days a week. I am currently pregnant again. We live in a fairly expensive part of London due to shift work and difficulty managing nights, long days etc and commuting an hour but also because we pay for the nursery via the salary sacrifice scheme (the fees are taken from my salary prior to tax) as the nursery is run by the Trust. Our LL has given us notice for Jan and said if we'd like to stay on in our tiny flat it will be £900 more a month. It's a ridiculous amount to pay for such a small place but we can't afford to buy atm (not enough deposit and no family support financially). We are looking for cheaper flats. My parents live in another country and ILs live in another city so cannot help reduce the cost of child care. We are lucky in that we have stable jobs but we keep trying to save and it is just not possible. We go on one holiday a year usually to see my parents as that is the only way time I see them. I do not want to give up my job. I have worked very very hard to get to where I am with post graduate degrees etc and dropping more days will prolong my training even more. I just don't know what to do. There are no gym memberships to stop as we play outdoor sports or cycle. We don't eat out, go iut for movies etc as there is no childcare. I just want to know how other working professionals manage it all without family support?

We don't live in an expensive part of London. We make do with mess, no time to tidy . It's easier if one person has flexible hours. If our kid needs to be off I'll I put the TV on. As his screen time is usually restricted he will stars at the TV. I keep food healthyish but simple. I get online deliveries to avoid time shopping.

That's literally how we manage and are quite comfortable. In London we wouldn't be comfortable. I wonder if one of you can move jobs or plan for that so can live in a cheaper part, the outskirts of commute in. Don't give up your job though.

Could you both relocate? Lot of demand for medics.

Good luck

It sounds grim and for two doctors truly shocking that life should be so difficult, but that’s London. I would consider moving further out and dealing with a commute - even if it means taking an Uber every now and again - it won’t come to anywhere near paying an extra £900pm. Or move further out and work fewer shifts? Just a thought - I know it might not be possible.

I am a nurse and my husband works in public sector in a similar paying job. When pregnant with our older child we moved to a cheaper area (we were never in London but moved from a 'posh' town to somewhere more affordable.

We have no family support so our jobs have evolved over the years to accommodate the children, I reduced my hours and now work school hours and my husband works away a lot during term time and builds up a lot of flexi so he can take the majority of time off in the holidays.

Could your husband also reduce one day so you only need three days for nursery?

Once you have two children and once you're thinking about school for the older child you may need a nanny depending on hours worked/ shifts etc.

I do agree with pp though, two doctors would live a very comfortable life most other places in the UK.

You have jobs which allow you to work anywhere so it doesn’t really make sense for you to live in London

Hi, thank you both. Re moving - I am in the middle of my specialist training and to move would mean finding a national training number in another deanery. To do this, it has to be a direct swap - so another trainee would need to swap and move. Most people at our age are settled and not looking to move. To add to that, my training is in a very niche area of medicine and to find a similar job is very difficult. My husband has also very recently accepted a very competitive fellowship for 2 years. I love medicine, it's the only thing I've ever known and I'm good at it (I think?!) but I have started looking at other careers removed from the NHS. I cant move until I have this baby and return from mat leave though, so awhile yet.

We moved out of London - to the north west - when I was on Maternity leave with baby number 2.

Because of the much lower costs of housing, childcare (and everything else as well) we had more disposable income each month - even with me working 3 days a week instead of the 5 I did in London.

So it was a great move for us - more disposable income, a much bigger and cheaper house, less time spent working and more time with the kids 👍

I think the family thing is a red herring here- the issue is the cost of where you live.

Would it be worth considering living in a house outside of London using a nanny and you and your husband commuting in? Even if it might be tight for a couple of years you're both medics and your salaries will only increase.

Hi OP, it’s so difficult without family support. I wasn’t it in your situation exactly but w e both had good jobs and lived in London. When we had children we moved out and I took a few years out. I’m not saying that’s the answer to your situation. I just found it very difficult without any kind of family support. I have friends who commute into London and have a nanny share which works out well and cheaper.

But OP these are the choices everyone has to make. That's not to say you have to move and give these things up, but everyone who has children (or just in general life in all honesty!) has to make decisions about what is most important to them. It's not that everyone else has it easy, or decisions are clear. We have spent hours, days, weeks and months debating about what we are willing to sacrifice. Should we move for DH to progress his career but which means I need to find new work and wait two years to have a child so I've got maternity pay in a new job? Should we follow a military career which affects the others' job? Should we stay where we are with good jobs but no family support or give up good jobs for worse paying ones for family life?
There are no answers and no right or wrong decisions, but don't fool yourself into thinking no-one who has family support or an easier family set up hasn't had to make the choices you have in front of you like giving up training or good careers. Because everyone will have had something they've sacrificed for something else in their life.

I think you are all probably right re living somewhere further out and commuting in. The plan was always to leave London once we both finished our specialist training and settle somewhere cheaper. Do nursery costs vary much between different areas of Lndon and greater London? We do save a lot from the salary sacrifice scheme and if there were two in nursery the saving would be close to £800 pcm

Just wanted to add - we essentially found that something (or a few things) had to give. For us it was working out what to compromise on.

Have you thought about moving to somewhere a commutable distance to London? Me and DH have no family support and live a 45 minute train journey into London and both work full time in London. We have 2 children under 5 and have been lucky to have found a good nursery. Most of our friends commute into London too, the train journey is actually my favourite part of the day! Actual me time!

We have only managed it by moving somewhere cheaper and life is still very tight although I reassure myself it won’t last forever. I panicked while pregnant with my second about how we’d afford everything but we’re now very close to him having 30 hours free childcare which will make things a lot easier and that time has flown by

Basically you pay for childcare, it's the only way to manage. It does get easier when they're past 3 and you get free hours, and then when they start school and you're only paying for a few hours a day. But whilst they're at nursery, it's not far off private school fees.

I think your real problem though is your land lord increasing your rent by £900/month. You probably just need to move a bit further out. We started off renting in zone 1, bought our first flat in zone 2 and sold it for a house in zone 3. Realise it's harder now with higher prices, but basically that's a ridiculous hike in rent.

In terms of your rent increase is what they’re asking for representative of what others are charging for the same type of place? I’ve challenged rent increases before saying if we move you won’t be able to rent it at that price and all the new tenant costs will cost you and managed to compromise on increases

Your nursery does sound like a good deal. Could you find somewhere more affordable to rent and still use the nursery until you’ve finished your training at least and then reevaluate. Once your return from Mat leave it’s not too too long before they get their 3 year funding.

Are you planning to keep your older DC at home whilst your on May leave, that could save on nursery fees.

The hardest part of this is when your children are very young, then perhaps lower fee private schools or state schools so you can save your deposit for a house.

A long term plan will help you to realise the wisdom in working hard now for later.

This isn't really to do with having children and no local family, this is to do with the fact your landlord is putting your rent up a ridiculous amount.

Longer term, as everyone has said, you could work anywhere in the country. Shorter term, it looks as if you will have to choose to not live in "an expensive part of London".

As @Olivetreebutter we all constantly make choices and compromises in our lives - you both chose to live and work in London and at some point decided to live in an expensive part of a very expensive city.

@Olivetreebutter is right. For us we started with the absolute couldn’t change, which was our location - we have a custody agreement so we can’t change where we live. Where we live is in a commuter belt, and in a house that is a smidge too small, but neither of us wants to extend the mortgage by £100k.

Once we’d accepted that fate, it became easier to put other things around it. Flexible working on both sides.

Childcare - we also have no family nearby, both kids in different schools, one with SEN.

We had to work out what’s the priority, what can’t change, and then what standards we were willing to drop - if I’m in an office I have a 2.5 hour commute and on those days if everyone is clean, fed and safe it’s enough. Even if they’ve had a party tea or a McDonald’s.

I really do believe you can have health, wealth or time but not all three at once. You’ve got to work out what’s worth the pain - it isn’t forever.

How much is your current rent and commute time? If you find the right area you might find your commute doesn't actually increase that much.

We relocated to a much cheaper region. Sold a 2 bed flat in Zone 4 and bought a 4 bed house with the money. We had no family nearby (closest 3hours drive) so very rarely had a night off parenting but we both kept pur careers going and DC are both at school now so its much cheaper.

I think something has to give OP. A sacrifice has to be made somewhere.

My friend recently became a SAHM after many years of training in her field. I can understand not wanting to do it though (and I don't think she really wanted to initially).

We couldn't have afforded two children in nursery in London. As it happens my son has severe sen so I've had to mostly stop my job anyway.

Would a nanny be cheaper than two in nursery?

Your new rent, is that comparable to other properties locally?