How do parents manage with toddlers/babies and no family support

[NC3435]

BG - my husband and I are both doctors. He works FT and I work 80% (one day off a week). We have a 1.5 year old DS who attends nursery 4 days a week. I am currently pregnant again. We live in a fairly expensive part of London due to shift work and difficulty managing nights, long days etc and commuting an hour but also because we pay for the nursery via the salary sacrifice scheme (the fees are taken from my salary prior to tax) as the nursery is run by the Trust. Our LL has given us notice for Jan and said if we'd like to stay on in our tiny flat it will be £900 more a month. It's a ridiculous amount to pay for such a small place but we can't afford to buy atm (not enough deposit and no family support financially). We are looking for cheaper flats. My parents live in another country and ILs live in another city so cannot help reduce the cost of child care. We are lucky in that we have stable jobs but we keep trying to save and it is just not possible. We go on one holiday a year usually to see my parents as that is the only way time I see them. I do not want to give up my job. I have worked very very hard to get to where I am with post graduate degrees etc and dropping more days will prolong my training even more. I just don't know what to do. There are no gym memberships to stop as we play outdoor sports or cycle. We don't eat out, go iut for movies etc as there is no childcare. I just want to know how other working professionals manage it all without family support?

It does seem like very few families can afford to live in affluent parts of central london. So you’re not on your own here having to make these decisions. As PP have said it all depends where your priorities lie as something needs to give. A matter of which sacrifice feels lesser to you and your partner.

things you could consider : Would a nanny be cheaper than a nursery once you have 2 children? Sometimes nannys can offer more flexibility too. Either you or DH could reduce your hours at work to avoid childcare. Do you have any control over your shifts to help reduce the childcare bill? Definitely look for a cheaper flat. Something smaller or in a less affluent area or further out of london. If it’s just until you finish your training could you cope in a smaller flat with a view to move further afield and get more space when your training finishes?

I've always found living in London can take longer (everything seems to take an hour) than living further out and commuting in.

We manage but for these reasons: we live in the North so nursery is cheaper, i WFH, left enough age gap so we are not paying full price nursery for two at the same time. That’s probably not helpful to your situation but I would consider moving?

Sorry was typing and my battery died. We have always lived in cheaper parts of London and travelled to work - usually an hour by tube (our training numbers are for West London due to the specialties we chose and the best opportunities etc). During COVID, everyone ended up doing general medicine so there was change in the shift patterns with more on calls and longer stretches PLUS rents dropped significantly and we were able to find a 2 bed closer to work for £2000. This was a fixed two year contract. The LL has now told us he is raising it to 2900 because of mortgage costs and we will be moving. I've looked on right move and he is definitely charging atleast £400 more than similar properties

Solidarity, I have a lot of the exact same circumstances as you (2 kids, decent jobs but can only rent, not a lot of flexibility with work - demanding careers outside of the home, no family help, London, minimal holidays and luxuries) and I don't have any answers. We are using savings (that I realise we very very fortunate to have) to get by until my oldest starts school.

Also, remember the nursery fees are temporary. When your oldest hits 3 you’ll get 30 free hours which significantly reduces the bill (it did for us anyway)

I am a retired doctor, and I had to wait until I finished my specialist training before having my children - I was 33 and 35 when they were born.
If you have chosen to have yours while still training, and in the most expensive city in the country, which strikes me as unwise in the extreme, you may have to run up debts in the short term until you can move somewhere more affordable. Your financial situation will improve dramatically once you are a consultant, particularly if you change location.

Unfortunately @Babdoc we don't own a time machine. I did a PhD so I absolutely cant wait until I finish my training or I'd be closer to 40 and I'm sure you are aware that fertility declines significantly with increasing maternal age. I am aware that once we are consultants things will improve - my question was how to manage in the interim and I've received some very good suggestions.

What are your salaries? 2 drs must earn ok / you must be living somewhere very expensive even for London?

Leave London. Definitely. 900 extra is ridiculous. Change the plan. Live in the north for a bit, it's great!

We moved away from London 30 years ago as we could see how unaffordable it is to live there. Your issue is more to do with housing than childcare. This will happen more and more due to interest rate rises. I can't think why this wasn't anticipated when the BOE raised rates.

It is incredible that 2 well trained professionals cannot afford a flat in the capital but sadly this is a reflection of a poorly managed economy. I would be looking to escape London asap.

You are me, only we both work full time and live up north. We muddle through, a lot of organising and on call coordinating. Taking time off when little one/ones is sick is tricky and always comes down to whose day will be buggered up less by cancelling at the last moment. We were lucky to get a place in NHS nursery for DS (although I had to put application in when I was 20 weeks pregnant with him to get that place..) but the fees are a tiny bit more humane (think £1200/month Vs £1600).
Sounds like both/one of you is still in a training post, and it's almost impossible to move during the contract, but I would strongly advise moving out of London. I lived and worked in London, and I am now delighted I moved out, although I was apprehensive at first. PM me if you want to chat 😊

I was a single parent with a 40 mile commute each way and no support, no maintenance to help with nursery fees etc. I actually loved the house and location I had, but the commute was a killer so I moved closer to where I work. Either something has to give or you need to accept how that is for the period in your life until things get easier.

We basically just survive. We have no family nearby and we both work full time. We had 2 under 2. Now they're 4 and 2. It's rubbish but it's a choice we made and it does get easier. No way was I giving up my career.

Thank you @UsernameNotPresent - we are both still in training but my husband is closer to finishing due to not doing research and being a couple of years older (also no mat leave!). Yes my son had been off nursery a day a week for the last 4 weeks for some illness or another so we've been having to alternate who stays home. I actually did my core training up north and loved it but got a number in London and moved. I just want to add that we are extremely lucky to have stable jobs and money to pay bills etc so I hope I dont come across as ungrateful. I think a nanny share will be the best option and obv moving somewhere cheaper. Saving enoigh for a deposit will just have to wait. Re where we live - it's not a great area but it's not as bad as certain places I've lived in East London which reflects the rental market.

😱 £2900 a month for a 2 bed flat! I'm sure you can find cheaper than that - even in London if you need to stay there for a while to finish training.

Then - as Drs can work anywhere- look at moving out of London to somewhere accommodation and childcare is cheaper!

A big one bed will be cheaper than a small 2 bed.

That's a compromise you could make.

Just to clarify we are not paying £2900 - that is the new rent. We are moving as soon as our current contract ends!

@NC3435 We're another family of 2 healthcare professional parents and no local family support. It's tough but do-able. For us, it's all about the scheduling - including night-time on-calls for DC and having a rota for who takes parental leave for childcare emergencies. 2 days per week nursery helps keep us both able to work (60-80% plus on-calls).

Where we're sacrificing at the moment: chronic sleep deprivation; time together is a rare occasion; accepting the need to drop hours at work just now; unlikely to be buying a house or having holidays away any time soon; my car is reaching the point where the tape holding it together needs more tape to hold it together...

But DCs are only little once. Any competent clinician in your field can do your jobs but only you and your DH can be your DC's parents. I'd suggest, take the small hit of either dropping your hours or doing compressed hours if that's an option. Depending on your contract, you might be able to make up the drop in income through locum or private work at weekends.

I think in this position I'd be looking to move after the training. From what I can tell at this point you can have more choice of location. I think it's good you both have meaningful careers with long term earning potential and I wouldn't give this up for an easier life or bigger house.

In the meantime I think your opinions are a. Cheaper area, b. Longer commute. Neither are easy but I suggest you look at both of these options until you can eventually move out of London or you may find one of these works in the longer term.

Sorry I meant to add that your rent in colossal even for London. Looking on the bright side it must be possible to find something cheaper, save up and buy. Your mortgage will be lower.

It’s really not about family support. Most people manage their adult lives independently.

we managed by delaying having a child, having only one, and moving somewhere with a better cost of living.

you will find a way to manage that works for your family. Given your situation, it’s likely to be moving into a flat that is inconveniently located or otherwise inferior, but cheaper and lets you keep your jobs for now.

if anyone drops a day of work, I would suggest it be your husband, not you. You are already making sacrifices to your career.

When we had 2 under 2 we managed by:

1. Not living in London

1. Me taking full 12mo maternity leave each time and stopping work entirely for 2 years until the youngest got his 30 free hours

1. Once I went back to work, taking a job somewhat below my capabilities in order to leave enough headspace to manage everything else.

1. Outsourcing everything possible apart from the children - so used my wage to pay for cleaner, gardener, meal delivery service. Always, always do online shopping. Never set foot in a supermarket.

1. Husband has to do half of all sick days/holidays/inset days. Has to pull his weight around the house.

Once they were both at school it was honestly fine, but then I'm not a doctor. No nights or weekends.

I know a few women who are doctors, friends from school/uni etc. and tbh the ones with children are working as GPS or they stopped at one child.

We aren't doctors, we live in the NE so have a 4 bed detached house for £680 a month each work FT in a 9-5 and don't work over much - and have a 4 year age gap between the kids on purpose.
FT childcare fees for us are £250 a week nursery + £50 a week after school childminder.

Relocate plenty of GP jobs around you really aren't in a position to complain EVER