My children are like wild animals

[TiredYorkshireMam]

Don't really know what I'm after here, just having a moan. I know I'm being mardy but I'm having a bad day / week.

I have a 5 year old who is ok on his own, and a 2.5 year old who is hard work on his own, just because of his age. But together, omg they are like a pack of wild animals.

Just had a big shop delivered. They pounced all over it like a pack of hyenas. Toilet rolls and bread squashed to buggery. Packets ripped open, things dragged all over the house.

House is always a tip. Can never find anything. Just so much junk and toys. We moved 1.5 years ago to a bigger house but it's still too small because of all the crap. I keep trying to get rid of stuff but they run around at the back of me pulling stuff out bags and dragging it back into their rooms. Trying to do it when they are not here, but they are always here. I'm either working or I'm looking after them, I don't get time away from them.

5 year old started football club a while ago. Got him pair of secondhand boots about a month ago. Brought them home, put them on side - haven't seen them since. Just vanished. Will be under a mountain of crap somewhere no doubt but that's been a month now and no sign.

They are always screeching to do things and for me to set up games etc, but they lose interest almost as soon as it's set up, or they just start fighting.

They are having their dinner just now. 5 year old is a good eater but 2.5 yo won't sit on his arse. Constantly getting up and running about. Eventually I sat down to have my own dinner and he starts screaming and grabbing at the food in my mouth same food as is on his plate.

Had planned to take them swimming this afternoon as 5 yo has been asking for ages but can't find swim suits. Not where I put them.

It's my mams birthday on Monday and I'd put her present on the table ready to be wrapped. They were painting at the other end of the table yesterday and spilled the cup of water for their brushes but didn't tell me, so my mams present is sodden as the water has ran across the table and seeped under it.

They are always running about screeching and crying, but they won't just play together, they follow me room to room, grabbing at me and climbing on me, and I feel like I can't just get a minute alone with my thoughts.

They fight a lot and knock lumps out each other and I feel like I am constantly refereeing them. I feel like they feed off my stress and involvement so I think Im just going to have to leave them to it to fight it out amongst themselves.

They have me and my husband run ragged and I do feel they feed off it and we need to stop. It's just so unpleasant in our house, so much screaming and unhappiness (they have nothing to be unhappy about, they have pretty good lives).

2.5 yo screeching and whinging just goes through me like a dagger. If he sees something he wants, like an apple or something, he will immediately start screeching and screaming for it. Omg, you can have it, it's not an issue, just take it, have it, you don't have to screech at me!!!

I just feel so drained. I don't like the parent I am. Sometimes I put the tv on and end up shouting at them "just watch the tv!!!! Just sit down and zip it, for 5 minutes!" because I just cannot cope with them running around me, screeching and grabbing at me all day.

I find being at home impossible so we usually try to get up and out, but we are waiting on a plumber this morning so are stuck here until 2ish. And to be honest I find being out just as hard for other reasons. The 2.5 yo has no sense of danger and it is so stressful. They also never eat / drink when they are supposed to and they screech that they are hungry : thirsty or the 5 yo will need the loo, at the most inopportune moment, and I'm so physically tired of dragging myself around laden down with bags and snacks and bikes and scooters.

Sorry, that really was a moan. I'm just so bored of it all

*unchaotic

Thers some practical things you could do which will make your life easier

1. have a sort out, I know that seems overwhelming but if you just do it for an hour every so often you’ll achieve so much. Buy a load of storage boxes and rubbish bags, sort everything into 1.keep 2.Rubbish 3.charity/give a way. Label all boxes and do it in every single room.
2. Put the 2 year old in nursery on a Friday to give you some time for yourself.
3. Ignore the screeching
4. If they want to “help” with things like the shopping give them a job to do rather than letting them run riot. If they don’t listen, put them in front of the tv while you sort out the shopping
5. Lots of praise when they being nice and bribery always works, don’t underestimate it! “You can watch TV if you help me tidy the kitchen take”, “You can have a biscuit if you play nicely together for a few minutes”, We will go to the park if you….you get the picture!

Easy to say and hard to do but could you try to be more of a master strategist about things and manage the environment to give yourself the best chance of a calmer time?

So, the shoppings coming today at x time. So today we will go out at x time, then back for snack and tv to coincide with the shopping arriving?

In terms of letting them rip through the shopping I just wouldn't allow it. I would out the shopping up where they can't get it and I would divert and distract and be very firm. If they can't behave around the shopping I would out the frozen stuff away and then take them out of the kitchen and say we don't rip the shopping to pieces. If you can help mummy nicely we can all choose a biscuit at the end.

If this is not possible then you just need to remove them and say they may not be around the shopping unless they can behave.

All the time being very calm and very firm.

Easier said than done ... I know!

I think kids just come with a mountain of shit and it’s this chaos that’s making you feel unable to cope with the rest of it. I also have one room in the house that’s completely full of toys, actually the garage is pretty full too, and it’s a huge stress to me. If you could focus on this element I would bet you the rest of it would improve.

OP I think they’re (just) old enough to sit them down and explain that there are going to be some new rules so you can have a happy house. Pick two or three so you don’t overwhelm them and make them really simple and clear, eg.

“New rule number one: Mummy unloads the shopping and packs it away and you must stay in the living room until I have finished. Then you can have something nice from the shopping.”

”Everyone sits at the table when we eat and everyone is in charge of their own plate and food.”

”If you would like something to eat or drink you must say ‘Please can I have x Mummy’ and then I will give it to you.”

Personally I’d start with those and get them really ingrained. Then introduce a few more.

I’m also a fan of being really explicit with children about what they should do next time:

”Next time you must ask in a quiet voice.”
”Next time you need to put a cloth on the table.”

And then remind them, all the time.

Things can change, OP, I promise, and the effort you put in now will pay off in a very short space of time because they are still young.

The chaotic behaviour will be fed by living in a chaotic messy house - and vice Versa.

Dh takes them out for a day and you get rid of 50% of the stuff. It can go in the attic/ chairs shop/ bin/ garage/ . But you must be ruthless.

whatever is left has to be rotated. Once the crap has gone give your house a bloody good sort out and clean up. Find the missing items!

Then decide on your new behaviour rules and how you will achieve them. Consequences are going to have to be part of it, there’s a big lack of discipline by the sounds of things!

Finally put your foot down with family who keep dumping more crap in your house. Be clear and very firm with them.

*charity shop.

I have a DC with SEN (ADHD, ASD) and she was a nightmare in some of these ways between these ages. She's now 9 and quite reasonable some of the time.

I suggest:

Earplugs for the screaming and screeching. Honeywell are good.
Stop having stuff delivered. Get it from a shop. Leave DC with DH while you shop. Win win. Or have deliveries sent elsewhere - lots of corner shops accept them. This works very well with presents!
You and DH tag team, one DC each, for big chunks of the weekend.
Decide where each type of thing lives and be rigorous about returning it there. Stick labels up if forgetting where you've put things or DH is contributing to losing it.
Get a lock on one of the doors or cupboards. Keep stuff important to you in there, or at work.
Get a skip. Hippo skips will deliver one flat pack and you book a collection when ready.
Try to get enough sleep. Easier to be patient and problem solve.
Not for me, but my neighbour took up karate. She says it helps (I do meditation).
I only have the one DC, but I hear Siblings without Rivalry is good.
10 Days to a Less Defiant Child has a great chapter on stopping shouting.

Good luck.

Some DC are far more energetic than others, some are far more compliant than others. Some have far better impulse control than others.

Just want to encourage you that you may have more challenging DC than others it doesn't make you a poor parent or failing them. Some are just bloody exhausting.

When we just had out youngest on her own we were knackered as she didn't have her older siblings to bounce off. Turned out she has ADHD/ADD.

They don’t sound awful!

Shopping, either get it delivered when they are in bed or give them set jobs, mine all had a cupboard that they put stuff away in so had to get the bits that go in their cupboard. Lots of praise for helping mummy and doing such a good job and a biscuit afterwards.

The mess, that’s not really their fault. Make sure you have adequate storage. I know it’s overwhelming but sorting it out one room at a time will help. At that age one of the adults take dc out and the other do a room.

Your mums present, again not their fault. Cups get knocked and there should have been an adult with eyes on them, I’m not sure how you wouldn’t notice split water when tidying away after
painting?. Keep important stuff out of the way.

Dinner, eat together, accept that two year olds generally don’t sit at the table and will be up and down, they learn.

I would suggest making house rules and then consequences for not following them. Use time outs and removing toys. Then a star chart for good behaviour with rewards like an extra story at bedtime (not new things)

Write the list of house rules together and put the list on the fridge with the star chart and list of consequences.

Make one of the house rules using an inside voice when in the house and another asking if they can help before touching ‘your things’ like shopping

Be rigidly consistent on the rules, consequences and rewards for a full month

My boys have exactly the same age gap as yours.
I absolutely feel your pain.
They are 18 and 16 now and things are so different, just hang on in there it does get easier as they get older.
I can remember one particularly bad day when they both kicked off majorly in the supermarket (because I wouldn't go
To the toy section!) and I lost my oldest boy when he ran off - he was about 4.
The security guard found him sitting in a freezer of all places!!!! So embarrassing!!!
I had had enough of them by then,
I packed them back in the car and drove to my husbands work and just sat in the car crying while he told them off.
They didn't listen to a thing I'd say but an angry dad soon had them sitting silently in the car (until I got them
Home and it all kicked off again)
I couldn't take them anywhere at that age without a row about car seats or shoes or who owns what toy or who has the blue cup etc etc....
I thought it would never end, they had me beat, my house was a war zone and they would never be friends but my god that's changed so much now.
They have grown into lovely calm, tidy boys, they are great friends and I couldn't be prouder of how they've turned out - we can look back now and laugh at all their crazy childhood antics but when you are in the thick of it it's soooooooo draining!!!
Things will get better I promise it doesn't last for ever. Hang on in there and maybe get some ear plugs ha ha xx

These ages are really tough, it's not just you. It is hard.

That said, I agree the clutter is making everything overwhelming and hard. That's a good starting point. I like the Dana K White stuff about decluttering. It seems to work with my brain. I felt very much like you when especially my eldest was little. Just everything all together is too much. It is better when you can improve even one part of it.

I read somewhere to only try and solve three problems at once. Otherwise you're not able to put your full focus into anything so nothing gets solved. So I'd probably start with 3 things to try and tackle, whether that's clutter, mealtimes, shopping, or shopping, fighting, clutter, or whatever. (You might also have something else that isn't children related that takes up one of the slots).

How to talk so kids will listen is a great book with lots of practical tips for various situations. What's great about it is there is also an app which I keep on my phone for emergencies.

Preparing for any situation helps a lot. So for example as someone else said about arranging the day around the shopping delivery, or someone else said about explaining before the shopping arrives what you expect of them and that they can have a treat at the end. Where is your DH when all this is going on as well? Can you divide and conquer - one person puts away shopping and other distracts the kids or takes them to another room etc. I find it so much better when DH and I can work together and either take one child each or one adult do adulting and one do child wrangling. Give each other breaks too.

It's normal that they don't have impulse control, so you kind of need to arrange the environment with this in mind. Yes ideally, a 5yo should have some impulse control, but if he's bouncing off the 2yo that doesn't, and he isn't used to being expected to exercise it/is being indirectly rewarded for being impulsive then it will take some time for him to learn more self control, and it wouldn't be fair IMO to penalise him for that. Control the environment to minimise destruction, keep communicating your expectations clearly, especially if they have changed, be patient and he will get there.

Could you get the shopping delivered while they are in bed perhaps or while the 5yo is at school on a Friday? Temporarily while you work on behaviour expectations if not permanently.

I'm a bit boring with activities and they need to be easy to get out and put away. 2.5yo is too young to do anything properly and you need enormous amounts of patience so for that age I wouldn't even do them, except for really easy things like water pouring in the bath, magic painting, colouring with a small set of pens you can count in at the end, easy jigsaws or simple board games. Anything like crafts, play dough, baking, science kits or whatever you could do with the 5yo if the 2yo is sleeping or out of the house AND you have a clear discrete space to do it in e.g. clean dining table. If you can't do both of those things, then don't worry about it. Try the simple activities instead, and don't stress too much if he moves on quickly. I also prefer stuff that's open ended because it means I'm not trying to control the activity to get the "perfect" result. Because that can just feel like another failure in a string of failures and it's so honestly not! If it entertains one of them for a bit it's a win.

Have you tried bins or containers for every type of toy makes it easier to organise and shelves help or maybe a lovely book case for the children's books. Ikea is very good for this You can label the bins with pictures so the children can help put their own toys away. You can schedule a tidy away before each meal, at bedtime and before they leave the house. Just keep at it until they get used to putting their own toys away. The screeching, tell them to stop nicely at first , if they don't listen tell them again and give them a warning next time they don't listen give them a consequence. This only works if you're really consistent. Maybe you could also try something creative so that they can donate their old toys willingly. You can turn it into a game. You could make a tick box for toys they can donate and if they fill all the tick boxes they can play a game with you or get to pick a movie for you all to watch. It might not work with the 2 year old but with the 5 year old you can explain that the toys are going to needy children who have no toys to play with and explain that they have so much. Parenting does become boring and tiring at times it helps if you can schedule some alone time or time with friends. Maybe you and your husband could team up for some alone time he can have the kids sometimes in the weekend so you can go out and you can do the same for him. Do you also have any willing babysitters? Things will get better and hopefully they will get to an age where they will be able to play together.

Has the house always been messy and full of junk or has that only happened since you had the kids.
I don't live in a spotless hat by far but I'd find that level of mess and disorganisation very stressful.

The more boisterous the kids the more you need to be organised and calm. They need consistency and boundaries. I used to excessive mine a lot. Not going swimming because you can't find their suits is a really shame.
Can you and your husband take turns taking them out alone then the other one can get on top of the tidying.

Screeching: "I can't understand you when you screech like that and I have to cover my ears. If you ask me in a normal voice I will respond."

Pre empt.
You knew shopping was coming
Tv on while shopping is delivered
Sit nice and reward with some nice snack

PraCtice rewarding pleasant behaviour

Shouting at bad does nothing
Show and tell what you expect and reward
Think puppy training

I would get them out the house as much as possible.

Divide and conquer - so one parent takes a child each to do something.

Get rid of toys - in the end DS wasn't ever interested in toys except for trampoline, scooter, football. So eventually I packed away all stuff like Lego. You could get some big storage boxes from IKEA & put into categories. Rotate round.

Don't let them get at the shopping.

With older one organise play date - you take friend out with you (outdoors) and then hopefully it will be reciprocated?

TV never worked with DS - just not interested. Got him an old Xbox when he was about 5 & he did like that.

I saw on here that boys are like Labradors - they need lots of exercise and outside as much as possible to keep them under control.

I could have written this.
I have 3. They are 7, 5 and almost 3.
The youngest one is absolutely no bother. She’s the most chilled toddler I’ve ever come across.
The other two however? I genuinely feel like I can’t cope with them. If they aren’t trying to kill eachother, fighting over every possible thing imaginable, they are running riot. They do not care about any form of punishment or consequence. They ignore every single word that comes out of my mouth, and I spend every waking moment either telling them off for stupid shit that they know they shouldn’t be doing, or repeating myself until I’m blue in the face to absolutely no avail. They have zero respect for me, their own stuff, anyone else’s stuff, or their home. Their behaviour is disgusting 99.9% of the time, and I feel like I’ve failed spectacularly as a parent. Not for lack of trying. I’ve tried reward charts, the naughty step, removal of privileges, removal of favourite toys/treats/devices. They don’t give a fuck. Within minutes of the punishment being doled out, they are back to behaving the exact same way again.
I’m a single parent, so have no escape from it.

I would have shopping delivered when daddy was around, after bedtime or when ds1 is around but ds2 is at nursery. I recognise that dynamic where kids behave much worse when their siblings are around.

I think that you need to break down the problem into what can be changed and what can't.

There will inevitably be lots of clutter when you have kids. Is there a better place to hide toys ? Eg car boot If they are broken rather than being sent to a charity shop, would your kids leave the bag alone if the contents had someone gross in it like a dirty nappy?

The eating and drinking- sadly common. You will just have to offer food (even if it's reheated dinner) more often in the hopes that he will start eating when everyone else does.

Is the 5 year old well behaved at school? You might want to go down the route of being like school and having a timetable. Mealtimes, tv time etc

The screeching - you need to train him out of this. You do this by saying that you can only hear him if he talks normally in the hope that he calms himself down and asks for what he wants.

Is tidying part of their routine ? Start small with loading dishwasher, dirty clothes in laundry basket when getting into the bath etc

As pp said you need a system of consequences. They need to know the consequence of a particular action in advance and it needs to be reliable, same each time, you always enforce it.

DS(6) operates on a points system (since age 4). It's an app called privilege points. He gets points for specific things (e.g. helping with a task) and loses them for bad behavior (e.g, not doing/ stopping doing something when asked. He can spend them on a variety of things but he mostly uses them to buy extra iPad sessions. If he gets to minus 10, he loses iPad for 24 hours. We didn't deliberately set it up to be all about iPad but it's what he cares about.

DD(2.5) is mostly much better behaved. Like yours she won't sit still at table. I remind her about 50 times each meal. Sometimes she says no, so I take her food away until she sits correctly. Again this happens lots of times. Repetition is key for toddlers! For other things I threaten to put her favorite toy on a shelf for 5 minutes. I have only had to actually do so about 3 times so far (DS was much harder work).

It's exhausting but you do need to set boundaries and fight for them, for the sake of your sanity. You (and they) need to know what happens next when you tell them something and they ignore you.

Also if you threaten a fairly big consequence (e.g. no TV for a month), be prepared to follow through with it even if it is painful for you as well.

I have done a few of these for extreme situations, DS believes my threats now!

It’s interesting one or two PPs have mentioned ADHD; my DCs were often separated and put in their rooms to calm down when they were that age and I was putting the shopping away. I could not engage them in putting-away games or reward-based behaviour systems no matter how I tried. The only thing that worked with them was sharply reducing external stimuli. DD has since been diagnosed with ADHD (she is now 20 and about to start her second year at uni).

If ADHD is a factor, then standard discipline measures very often don’t work. ADHD runs in families too, so if you have some level of it yourself it’s almost impossible to stay organised. My DD describes it as ‘like having a nightmare classroom of kids constantly making noise in your head.’

I don’t know why some people are insisting that most 2 year olds can’t sit at the table for a meal 🤔
I work with 2 year olds, they have to sit at the table for lunch and snack time. Getting up and wandering isn’t an option. Sure some might try, they are immediately encouraged/helped back onto their chair at the table. I once had to do this 15 times in a row with one child. There doesn’t need to be drama, just redirecting back to the chair with a brief explanation “We sit at the table to eat”. Within 2 days he just got it.
They don’t automatically know about rules or expectations, they have to be taught.
Ok sure it takes commitment and energy, but short term pain for long term gain as they say!

Rest assured we have all been there. My children are older than yours, but are very bouncy full on children. My daughter just never stops talking, I'm by my self with them and often find it overwhelming.mainly the noise and constant questioning by tea time I've had enough. I brought these "loop" ear plugs, they reduce the noise down. I have to say there amazing. They would work really well with screeching. Have a look on Amazon.