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Just slapped my daughter across the face..

102 replies

emilytankengine · 16/01/2008 20:51

..and I feel like the worlds worst mother. I just completely lost it with her because to be honest she's been a complete bitch for a few months now (she's 11 so probably teenage hormones).

But before we had a huge row over her treatment of her younger sister and she spat at me and shoved 2 fingers up to me . I know I was wrong to hit her but really don't see why I should put up with being spat at.

She has been awful towards her sister in particular. DD2 was diagnosed diabetic a few months ago and things have been hard enough for her without DD1 upsetting her as this affects her blood sugar levels and it's me who has to deal with that. I don't understand why she is so spiteful given what DD2 has to go through, she doesn't know she is born.

DD1 is in her bedroom banging round while DS (aged 2) is in bed! I'll be so if she wakes him!

At the end of my tether tonight

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Rhubarb · 16/01/2008 22:25

I wish I could hug your dd and tell her that you both do still love her and acknowledge that things have been hard for her too.

But I can't, so I'm sending your dd a virtual hug and hope she gets it.

emilytankengine · 16/01/2008 22:30

I have been back up and put my cards on the table. I have admitted that with all the upset with Danni's diabetes I have been rather preoccupied and that I haven't really been there for her. I didn't mention that I didn't agree with my husbands behaviour as I think that would be disloyal. Again she didn't shout and scream and we've agreed that we are going to talk tomorrow. I will take her to town after school. We were meant to be going to MIL's for tea but I will leave DD2 and DS with her while we go out. Maybe neutral ground will be better.

OP posts:
Rhubarb · 16/01/2008 22:31

Well done! And please do talk to your dh, show him this thread so he doesn't think it's just you nagging. His dd still needs him, now more than ever, don't let him turn his back on her.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

VeniVidiVickiQV · 16/01/2008 22:32

Good on you.

Now, switch the pc off, and go up and have a HUGE cuddle with her.

anorak · 16/01/2008 22:32

If I knew 20 years ago what I know now about the way children rule everything nowadays I probably wouldn't have had any . It's so hard, parents have virtually no right to insist on children behaving a certain way, and children are so full of concerns for their own rights without any responsibility for their own behaviour.

With many children this works okay because all our efforts bear fruit and we are able to cultivate a sense of responsibility in them. With some however, we get nowhere, because they realise they can have everything their own way and there isn't a thing we can realistically do about it. My elder daughter is a case in point. She had all the attention, one on one, talking, everything you care to mention and I never slapped her around the face in case you are wondering. I can't begin to tell you how she behaved, it would take all day to list the ways in which she tried to destroy my marriage and my other children.

I know she is an extreme case and most children are in between the two extremes I mention, but the problem exists, that's a fact. Children had virtually no rights when I was a child, now they have all the rights and parents have none - great progress has been made in the fight to prevent children being abused but we are riding on a pendulum that is away on one side at the moment - we are still far from that central position where the right answers lie.

paddyclamp · 16/01/2008 22:33

Well done emily let us know how you get on!

liath · 16/01/2008 22:34

Well done, hope it goes well. You have a hell of a lot on your plate at the moment.

Heathcliffscathy · 16/01/2008 22:35

anorak, you're a great mum, but she wasn't born like that. some circumstance engendered this in her. was anything happening in your family's life at crucial points in her development? 0-3....puberty....etc etc?

anorak · 16/01/2008 22:40

Her father happened to her. But I chose him

But I'm not the only person this has happened to. It happens to lots of parents. I was deeply unhappy as a child, but it wouldn't have occurred to me to spit at my mother and stick two fingers up at her. I just don't and can't "get it" the way teenagers' minds work in this day and age.

Heathcliffscathy · 16/01/2008 22:41

you know it is a marathon not a sprint and you may be best best friends when she is in her 30s. i know you won't believe me but i could be right anorak.

lucyellensmum · 16/01/2008 22:44

fwiw, i dont think you should have slapped her, but i bet you i would have done the same thing. That was such an awful thing to do to her mum. But i do think that she is feeling left out so to speak due to the diabetes. She probably doesnt understand it and resents the extra attention her sister is getting.

You will all get used to things with the diabetes and it will become something you all just deal with.

Maybe it would be an idea to ask the diabetic nurse to recommend some literature that might help your DD understand WHY her sister is suddenly getting so much more attention. It must be so tough for her too, she might be worried and this is the only way it manifests, she might be worried that she will get diabetes too.

I hope things work out for you

Domesticgodless · 16/01/2008 22:47

agree with anorak. I hated my mother but the worst I ever did was to throw a book at her aiming to miss (not good I know)- spitting, omg. Where the hell are they learning this stuff, at 11?

I think a popular culture of 'cool' disrespect is some but not all of it. I think that post-60s liberality with children is often unhelpful, because it assumes that the godlike child basically knows what is good for it and will demand this, but that just isn't true. Violence is no solution to bad behaviour but I am a bit perturbed by some of the responses on this thread which focus totally on the daughter's perspective and ignore on the OP's understandable shock and hurt (and guilt).

cory · 17/01/2008 09:48

It seems to me that this incident is dusted and done with. She knows she behaved badly, OP has calmed down and they are now communicating.

What you do need to think about now, Emily, is arranging some support for your dd in her situation as the sibling of a child with health problems. In fact, it sounds like you are already providing support by talking to her about your new family situation- well done you!!!

I'm somebody who has been dealing with this situation for the last 4 years, as my dd has a painful chronic disorder. It is not the case that siblings feel grateful when something like this happens to the other one. If you think about it, your daughter would have to be an inhuman little monster to react that way. What she is more likely to feel is:
guilt (why little sister and not me?)
fear (will she be ok?, will we be ok as a family? will anyone still have the strength to care for me if I need it?)
anger (why us????).
In fact, very much the same emotions as you've probably been feeling as a mother over this situation. And you would probably not have felt at all comforted if somebody had expected you to be grateful because it was your child who was ill and not you.

I totally think you should clamp down on bad behaviour- and I'm sure other Mumsnetters feel the same (noone is condoning the spitting, anorak and domesticgodess!).

But in between you will also want to recognise her pain, and maybe look for some outside support for her. Your dd is not just a normal preteen behaving badly because of hormones or society or whatever- she is a member of a family under great stress. When my dd was in hospital before Christmas, they were very aware of the situation of siblings; there was a poster on the front door to remind parents of the needs of other family members. There are special support groups for Young Carers, which includes people in your dd's position. It gives them a chance to meet other young people in the same position and let out steam in a safe place. You can find them online or ask a healthcare professional. The school may also be able to offer counselling.

emilytankengine · 17/01/2008 20:04

Well that was a revelation. I can see now that from DD1's point of view she has been completely ignored over the past few months.

DD2 was very ill due to a delay in her diagnosis so understandably she got a lot of attention. Then she took the diabetes badly so again got a lot of tlc. I was so upset and concerned for her that the other kids suffered.

Anyway it came out one of the things that really gets her is a while ago DD2 did a speech in assembly about her diabetes where she showed how she checked her blood sugar etc. Then DD1 had all these teachers and other kids going up to her saying how cool her little sister is and how brave etc.

As she put it, how can she compete with cute little diabetic sister now. How do I deal with this one?

OP posts:
Weegle · 17/01/2008 20:24

When I was 11 my sister (older in my case) was very very ill. Reading this thread has brought back many of the feelings of unfairness and bitterness and confusion that I felt at the time and I hope maybe I can shed some light?

At 11 you aren't capable of thinking and rationalising things like an adult. She won't understand what diabetes means, she won't understand what it means for a parent to be worried about a child, she won't understand why it means her sister gets more attention from EVERYONE. What she sees is a pretty ok looking sister being talked about, given lee-way on things, being given gifts, being talked about, being worried about etc etc. The simple one thing you can do is acknowledge to her how you understand how SHE feels (well done for tonight's talk that's a great start) and no matter how much you need to focus on Danni right now please assure her that you will also be focusing on her and her needs. It's not a case that she should be thanking her lucky stars - an eleven year old CAN'T think like that. Can you spend time just the two of you on a regular basis doing things for HER, talking about HER life not mentioning her sister. Can you tell her that you are grateful Danni has such a wonderful older sister who she trusts to help look out for her? My sister's condition turned out to be lifelong. As teens it drove me nuts that she got special treatment (her also involved diet) and I felt it was unfair if she was bought something when out because she needed something different from the rest of us - in these cases make sure your older daughter is offered the same e.g. Danni needs some toast, also offer to make some for your older one. In time you won't need to do this but for the moment it will help alleviate the jealousy. And you definitely need to put a stop to the material gifts heading to your younger one - in fact it probably wouldn't do any harm but help build bridges if you DH takes your eldest out for a spot of shopping.

I hope you can sort it all out and get everyone back on track. It must be a really worrying time for you and your DH but please try and stop the situation from getting out of hand.

bobbysmum07 · 17/01/2008 20:50

If I were you, I wouldn't look for reasons to turn something like this into such a big deal. It was a slap for God's sake, and by the sound of it, pretty well deserved. She'll get over it.

Don't over-analyse and don't go begging her forgiveness whatever you do. You can't let an 11 year old act like that. If you do, where will it end? What will she be like in three years time?

Provided it was a one-off thing, you probably did the kid a world of good. Sometimes you have to be a little less understanding.

cory · 17/01/2008 21:35

Just adding a few thoughts:

Jealousy of somebody who is seriously ill is a particularly horrible feeling to have, because it makes you feel so guilty, much more so than any other jealousy. Make it clear to her that it is still all right to feel as cross and normal-sister-like towards her sister as ever (short of descending into violence, obviously). You don't have to think lovey dovey thoughts about someone every moment of the day just because they're ill- they're not going to suddenly turn into little Beth or some other ghastly story book character. (She may feel that people around her are trying to turn her sister into some saintly stranger).

It is also possible that deep down she is frightened by her sister's condition, the more so because she does not fully understand it. It must have been a very frightening experience for all of you. Ask if she would like to talk to an outsider.

I recently discovered that my ds was talking in the summer to his aunt by marriage about his fears of having the same condition that has crippled his sister. And yesterday he was diagnosed with it. I strongly suspect that one of his main fears was that I would not be able to cope with another disabled child. Not suggesting that your dd is fearing to become a diabetic herself, but every child knows instinctively that there will be times when they have a specially strong need of their mum- and the preteens is such a time.

emilytankengine · 17/01/2008 21:54

Thanks for the advice. I will make an effort to address Stephi's needs as much as Danni's.

Trouble is I was so proud when Danni did that assembly and now I feel it was a big mistake as Stephi has suffered. I think people putting Danni on a pedestal has been a big cause.

Danni was so gutted at diagnosis though that I feel if I give up encouraging and praising I'll be back to square 1 with her.

I haven't even begun to find reasons for Stephi's behaviour other than Danni as this all seems to have hit the nail on the head.

OP posts:
Janni · 17/01/2008 22:22

She should not be trying to 'compete' with her 'cute little diabetic sister'. Make the reality of diabetes clear to her. Make her understand that she is LUCKY to have her health and that you do not love her sister more than her, but that, perhaps, you seem more worried about her sister, for good reason.

Anorak made some interesting points. I REALLY agree that we should not accept appalling behaviour from our children just so that they can 'express themselves'.

cory · 18/01/2008 09:13

No, Janni, we are not talking about accepting horrible behaviour! Nobody has suggested that! But how would you feel if you had been gutted by a sister's illness and you were then told you should feel grateful because it wasn't you? Happy? The only person who could feel grateful under the circumstances would be a selfish little monster! Any normal person would feel guilty- and very angry with the person who made the suggestion. I've noticed that you don't tell Emily that she should be grateful because it's her child being ill and not her. Why not?

Unless you have lived through the reality of having a disaster like this strike your family, I do think it is very difficult to understand quite how much it affects everybody. (a bit like childless people having pronounced views on parenting).

Believe me- I have lived with a similar situation for 4 years. And I can assure I do not encourage my children to behave badly. But I do understand that there are times when they behave more badly (more angrily) than they otherwise would because they are upset and frightened. And you know what? They also have to put up with me being more angry than before because I am frightened. It cuts both ways! We ask more of siblings of sick children, they have to put with things that normal children don't. And seeing the way the situation affects their parents is not the least of it. I know there have been lots of times when I have lost it with my children, not because their behaviour was especially bad at the time, but because I was frustrated with all the fear and pain. I also have close friends where the mum has terminal cancer, and they are having the same issues with anger and resentment, despite being an incredibly close and loving family. Should I trot round and tell the children how lucky they are that it's their mum dying and not them?

I think Emily is doing a brilliant job parenting under very difficult circumstances, and it's totally unhelpful to try to discuss it as if it were a normal case of modern parenting.

Emily, I wouldn't feel guilty about having let Danni have her moment of glory. Just explain to Stephi what the reasoning was behind it: that Danni needed a bit of encouragement at that particular moment of time. Say what you said to us, that she took it badly. Point out that the novelty of her condition will soon die down. Danni won't be having an assembly every week about how brave she: eventually this will all
become normality. Tell Stephi that you are still struggling to get to grips with this, but that that won't last forever, either; that eventually you'll all get used to it, including Danni. The time will come when she doesn't need constant propping up.

I know the first time my dd turned up at school in a wheelchair, she got a lot of attention, but now the chair is just part of the furniture, nobody thinks about it. The children who were only interested in her as an invalid have lost interest long ago and she has to make friends in the usual way, by being one. Now, diabetes, though scary at first, is much less visible than a wheelchair.

saltire · 18/01/2008 09:42

I'm probably going to end up going off on a tangent here, but hey ho. When i was 11, and DB1 was10 our younger brother, who was 5 was diagnosed as Diabetic. it was only a matter of time before one us got the illness, my dad and 3 cousins had it at the time. I was trying to cope with starting my periods, having a very ill dad and now this with my younger brother. From then on everything changed. Our whole days were structrued round my dad and my brother. This was in the days when diabetics were allowed so many carbohydrates a day (i.e a banana would count as 2). if we went anywhere we "have to be back at 5pm for X's injection", I was always being told to be nice to him, to take him with me when I went out with my friends etc. When i was 16 my dad died, sadly through diabetes related illnesses. We all had to pussyfoot round my brother becasue "he's young, he's lost his dad and he ahs diabetes". He even altered my wedding - the day was structured round him and his injections!
I guess what I'm trying to say is that it perfectly normal for an 11 year old to feel left out, i did. I didn't go to the extremes of behaviour that your DD did, my dad wouldn't have put up with it. End of story!
My mum never discussed how I, or indeed my other brother, felt about it, although she will now admit that she spoilt DB2 a lot and is regretting it now. She never spoke about how we felt, or how she felt etc. I guess you've made a start by lsitening to her

Notyummy · 18/01/2008 09:51

Some really interesting and useful posts here. I think it sounds like balance is what is needed i.e acknowledging her feeling left out and paying her attention, but instigating some punishments that really hit home when swearing/sticking fingers up/direspectful behaviour rears its head. One warning and then a pre-specified much loved item is confiscated. I bet there are quite few things an 11 year old would really miss...tv/mobile/favourite books or items of clothing/pocket money??

Good luck. Although I am nowhere near that stage yet with my dd, i have a short phase and will have to work hard at it.

Janni · 18/01/2008 14:51

Cory - in an earlier post I mentioned that I have a daughter with cystic fibrosis. I also have two sons. I know about the compteting emotions where a sick sibling is involved. I just do not agree that it is ever acceptable for a child to spit at their mum, just as I do not agree with a mum slapping her child round the face.

cory · 18/01/2008 20:46

Sorry, Janni, I had missed that. I take that part of my post back then, as far as you are concerned.

The point I am trying to make is that noone here has agreed with a child spitting at her mother. Certainly not me! In fact, personally I don't think slapping her as a once-off was such a dreadful thing either; frankly, I think I could have lived with myself if that had been me .

What I was trying to suggest is that it sounds like a good time to move away from this isolated incident and concentrate on the wider picture. And as part of that wider picture, telling a child that she should consider herself lucky because her sister and not her is ill sounds to me a good deal more upsetting than slapping her in the face. I am surprised to have found people seriously suggesting that.

Emily seems to have done a great job of talking to her dd after the incident, so big round of applause to her.

Janni · 18/01/2008 20:50

Thanks, Cory. I hope Emily works this one out and that some things in this thread have been helpful to her.

Personally, I find the juggling of my children's needs and demands EXTREMELY challenging which, I suppose, is why this OP got me so worked up!

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