Don’t know what I’m doing and feel very low :-(

[WorryMcGee]

I have a 4 week old daughter. Initially I thought I was coping okay but now I’m not sure I am, and my husband is about to go back to work.

She was born via elective c section and some milk did come in but we have had so many issues (I started another thread on this) and after spending a fortune on lactation consultants, shields, supplements, you name it I have almost made peace with the fact bf is not going to happen. I have hired a pump but now have mastitis, ducts on one side that won’t unblock and severely cracked nipples on the other side (and a sinus infection yippee) I’m managing to get about 200-250ml a day so she has that and Aptimil formula for the rest.

I mention the feeding because I’m worried it’s why she’s so unsettled at night/around feeds. She shows no hunger cues at all - I really do look for them - until it’s too late and she’s screaming. We pace feed her and she screams and strains and writhes around whenever the bottle is not in her mouth. She screams when trying to wind her as I thought it might be that. She stops screaming completely when she’s not hungry but feeding her is a total stressful nightmare as it’s a fight until she’s full (she was like this on the breast as well, another one of the many reasons it didn’t work out for us - she would whack the nipple shields off or if I finally managed an okay latch she’d move). She possets a bit but it’s not projectile. When she’s not hungry she’s very calm, happy to lie in her bassinet and look at everything, naps fine and only cries when her nappy is being changed. If it was reflux she’d be uncomfortable afterwards right? Not screaming during the feed but then totally fine afterwards?

At night - and only at night - she grunts and writhes around and won’t settle. She also sounds snotty and kind of gurgly? This has gotten worse over the last week and last night was impossible - she woke up at 2:30, I fed her, and she wouldn’t settle at all - eyes like saucers and grunting/writhing/whinging whenever I put her down. This went on until my husband fed her again at 5:30 when she started screaming, and then we just got up as she wouldn’t settle again. She’s bloody well asleep now though. In her pram bassinet. Silently with no fuss whatsoever.

I was worried it was wind so tried infacol which doesn’t seem to do anything. Cycling legs, tummy massage, all the burping tricks - don’t work, just upset her. Saline drops and tilting the crib doesn’t do anything - but she doesn’t need any of this in the day anyway so I don’t understand why we have problems at night.

In the back of my mind a voice is telling me that all of this is because I’m not breastfeeding her. I‘ve gone from dreading breastfeeding her to dreading feeding her at all because of the screaming. I spoke to my GP when I saw her for the mastitis and she said it’s normal and they grow out of it? I feel so tired and ill and low 😞 sorry for the long post.

[RandomQuest]

Slightly different as I didn’t breastfeed but my first didn’t show any hunger cues either, then it would be too late and she’d be raging. Same with sleep, didn’t show any obvious signs of being sleepy then would suddenly be overtired and in a state. A strict routine with regimented feed and nap times was a game changer. We did Gina Ford which I know is not everyone’s cup of tea but it was honestly amazing for us.

[Squiblet]

Sorry you're going through this OP 💐

If it makes you feel any better, my DS was exactly the same and he was exclusively BF. Lots of screaming, scrunching up his face, scrunching up his legs, etc. Nothing seemed to help. We put it down to colic and the general growing pains of developing a digestive system from scratch.

By the time he was about 8 weeks, he was so much better, so hang in there...

[Motherl0de]

Is there a reason why you're pace feeding her? My 4 week old just drinks until she naturally lets go of the bottle teat (generally about 60ml) and then she needs 10 minutes to just relax. She'll then either fuss for a little bit more milk, go back to sleep or lay awake staring at the ceiling.

Are you giving her formula at night or breast milk? We used to do a mixture but found sticking to just one overnight was better - a combination just gave her stomach ache.

[Hiddenvoice]

I feel like I could have written parts of your post. I have a 4 week old daughter born via elective c section. Breast feeding was incredibly difficult for me and the stress of it all just became too much. After speaking to my midwife and my dh I decided to solely formula feed. I’ve felt so guilty doing this but it’s a massive help having my dh able to do some of the feeds. There is such a pressure around bf so please don’t feel guilty about stopping!
My baby thrashes around her bed when we first put her down. She can sleep so soundly on myself and my dh but she fairly moves around her bed when she sleeps. The midwife and health visitor said this is completely normal as it’s active sleep and she’s just settling down. I’ve found though, that a Muslin that smells of me, in her bed, helps settle her faster.
It does sound like she’s suffering from a bit of colic. Were you advised to start infacol? I ask this as I was told to seek advice before starting anything. I would speak to your gp, they will be able to support you and your baby!
We we’re advised by the hospital to have a strict feeding routine of every 3 hours. Even when she was asleep, we would gently wake her, change her and then feed her. She’s settled into a routine now and is showing feeding cues so we’ve moved to responsive feeding and get the milk readh for when she starts to turn her head etc.

[yorkshireteaspoonie]

I have a 4 week old also and experienced this. We switched from infacol to gripe water and this made quite a deference. The infacol did nothing. I had an elective c section also and my baby has been exclusively formula fed, it's nothing to do with breastfed vs formula (I don't think) we switched to a comfort milk (thicker) formula so he couldn't drink as fast/ gulp as much air when he was drinking, this with the gripe water has settled things a lot

[WorryMcGee]

Thank you everyone. It helps to know it’s not just me totally failing at this.

@Motherl0de only because we were told to by the bazillion lactation consultants/midwives/health visitors who have been round here trying to fix the breastfeeding. Four gulps and take it away. I do wonder now you’ve said this whether they only told me to do this because they hoped I’d eventually bf? Because that’s never going to happen. I can’t try anymore, I’m mentally broken over it now and she needs to gain weight, she wasn't back at birth weight last week and she is already small (2.9kg at birth, 2.8 at 5 days and only 2.82kg last week 😞)

@RandomQuest this sounds so familiar! People say look for cues but I swear to god she doesn’t show any for anything!!! I will look at Gina Ford, I have heard the name before.

[yorkshireteaspoonie]

Also... my baby hates sleeping on his back! He only sleeps on his front or side, screams blue murder if placed on his back. All the NCT advice about placing them on their back has gone out the window and we allow him to sleep (in a clear cot) on his front with his head to the side

[WorryMcGee]

@Hiddenvoice thank you so much for sharing, the guilt is something else isn’t it?! It’s taken me by surprise. The health visitor suggested infacol but I’m not convinced it’s done anything.

[TulipsGarden]

Others will have more advice, but I just wanted to say - this is nothing to do with you not breastfeeding her. Formula is great, it's good for her and she'll be fine on it.

It does sound like colic to me - some babies are just very uncomfortable at first. It settles down after a few weeks, usually around 3 months.

[motherofsavages34]

I could have written parts of this too. My 3 week old was born via ELCS and we also tried and failed and breastfeeding. She is formula fed now and we are also having issues especially at night time with grunting, writhing and an awful throaty noise that she makes straight after a feed. It goes on for ages. Sometimes accompanied by random bouts of screaming. I am exhausted and at a total loss as to what could be wrong. Suggested intolerance to her milk to midwife but she said that she'd be being sick a lot more if it were that. She definitely looks and sounds like she's in pain sometimes though.

I think sometimes babies do just cry/be unsettled and there's not always a reason. It's incredibly hard and I feel very out of my depth. Sorry no helpful advice but you're not alone.

[nearlyspringyay]

It is nothing to do with not breastfeeding!

If it was me I would stop the pace feeding and see how that goes.

[PraiseBee]

Could it be dairy intolerance?

[Sbena]

I can't relate to absolutely everything you're going through, but my boy was absolutely insatiable at that age. I spent 3 months sitting down feeding him pretty much all the time.

It's good that you've gone to your GP for reassurance. Is she gaining weight? Are her nappies full and dirty? I would absolutely keep voicing your concerns when you see your health visitor, but other than that it sounds like she's just being a baby.

I won't say it gets easier, but you do figure out what you're doing. Are you close with your mum, or other friends with babies? Moral support is essential. We've all gone through it; now it's your turn!

[WorryMcGee]

@motherofsavages34 yes!!! The throaty noise, that’s exactly what mine does - and when I’ve asked literally anyone if it’s an allergy or intolerance they say she’d have skin issues, be more sick, cry more in the day and have poo issues so it can’t be. I think I’m just desperately searching round for a reason so I can cure it and/or stop the intrusive thoughts about it being related to breastfeeding

[cigarettesNalcohol]

Definitely nothing to do with breastfeeding or not breastfeeding. My baby was exactly the same at night. Literally like for like, grunting etc etc. And she was breastfed.

I can guarantee she will grow out of it. After about 6/7 weeks my baby stopped being so noisy and uncomfortable at night. It does stop I promise!

It's nothing to do with breastfeeding - any kind of milk is affecting their very immature digestive system, hence all the drama. When the digestive system has gotten used to the milk and life outside the womb, it suddenly improves. Promise! Hang on in there.

[WorryMcGee]

I might try not pace feeding at the next feed. It’s awful, total scream fest. I guess if I was bloody starving and some git only let me have four bites before taking my plate away I’d have something to say about it as well.

[Bluepolkadots42]

Sorry you're having such a hard time at the moment OP. God those early weeks and months are bloody hard and for what its worth it sounds like you're doing a great job. Sleep deprivation, major surgery and keeping a tiny human alive are no small challenges to face.

Also well done to you for managing to pump for this long- that too is hard time consuming work. Research shows that as little as 50ml of breast milk a day is beneficial for baby so to be giving her 200-250ml is amazing. Remember though that formula contains everything your baby needs and if you get to the point where pumping is impacting your mental health then please feel no guilt or shame to just move to exclusively formula feeding. Equally, if you want to continue pumping or even try getting baby on breast and continue combi feeding then I really recommend Olivia hinge on Instagram or Kathryn stagg. Both UK based IBLC qualified lactation consultants. Olivia H has videos about getting baby back on boob after period of bottle feeding etc. Info on using and then cutting out nipple shields and lots of stuff on achieving a good latch with a newborn. Whatever decision you make please put yourself at the centre to ensure you choose what makes you happiest cos happy mum, happy baby and babies will thrive on formula or boob milk or both- so long as they are fed! I say this as it's the advice I wish someone had given me with my eldest when they were failing to thrive, had an undiagnosed tongue tie and breastfeeding was absolute hell. My mental health was in the gutter and I wish I had had someone tell me to feed my baby in the way that made me happiest.

I would offer baby a feed every 2-3 hours if she doesn't give any obvious hunger cues until too late. I am currently combi feeding my second atm and found that for first 3 months they would.go 2houts after a breastfeed before wanting more food and 3 hours after a formula bottle.
Also please be aware that with some kinds of pumps like hakaa pumps (suction or bulb pumps) they don't tend to collect a full feed, only usually the very watery initial milk, because they are so gentle. This milk is very high in lactose and so if you add.it to babys bottles you are giving them a huge lactose overdose which can result in wind and tummy pain for them. I was unwittingly doing this with my current baby until I watched a video from Olivia hinge and then it made sense why they seemed to always have bad bottom wind and be in discomfort. If you're using an electric pump then you can use breast compressions to ensure you extract a fuller feed and better balance of fore and hind milk (watery and fatty milk).
Hinge recommends a book called 'mixed up' for mums who are combi feeding. I haven't read it but just passing on the recommendation.


Really hope things get better soon- especially your poor boobs with the mastitis.

[Bluepolkadots42]

Also- forgot to say another trick I've learned whilst combi feeding my 2nd baby is the winding. They were so hard to wind when tiny but were taking in a lot of air etc. On bottle. If you sit them upright on your knee, support their head using a c shape with your thumb and fore finger behind their head at base. Then tilt them to their left hand side (not your left- got to be their left). Then back pats whilst tilting, and I also used to jiggle my knee up and down a bit gently whilst tilting too to try and dislodge any air bubbles upwards. You can also do this wonky winding as it is known by holding baby against you so their bum is on your left arm and head up on your right shoulder (again they are tilted to their left). Then back pats. The works because of the design of the neck of stomach. I cannot nremember the full details but again got this tip from an insta video and it worked and continues to work a treat. Now my baby is 4months I often feed them sat on my knee and tilt them away from me slightly to their left whilst I give bottle and that also seems.to help little air gurgles come up on their own whilst they feed. Hope some of this helps you x

[Wisteriaroundthedoor]

Honestly it’s waiting till she’s starving then giving her four gulps and taking it away. Ain’t no one going to like that op. Not one bit. Feed her regularly Ie every three hours or so and let her have her fill.

[resipsa]

Oh OP. I feel your despair from your posts but as others have said, babies just need to be fed in the end (whether it's by breast or bottle). You are still in the v tricky early stage so be good to yourself and just keep going. It will get better.

[Snowpatrolling]

Stop pace feeding, I’d never heard of that, can’t believe that’s a thing!
let her drink til she’s finished
if I was starving and someone took my food out of my way after a few bites I’d be savage!!
I also fed my babies every 3 hours to set a routine and they naturally grew out of it once they started eating solids.
also nothing to do with breast or formula.

your not failing by the way, I just think you paid for some shit advice.

not your fault at all. X

[Twizbe]

@Snowpatrolling pace feeding is advised for combi feeding or while establishing breastfeeding. It mimics the 'work' the baby has to do to get the milk from the breast. It's supposed to reduce the chance or nipple confusion. That said my eldest went between bootle and breast no issue without pace feeding.

OP - if you're no longer trying to breastfeed then stop the pace feeding.

I don't know if this will help you as much as it helped me, but I remember a more experienced mum telling me that the reason a baby does something is because they're a baby. They've never read a baby book. They do things because they do.

So, your baby is doing what they are doing because they're a 4 week old baby. Things will settle down soon but these early weeks are so hard. Both mine had terrible witching hours every evening between 7 and 10pm. No reason other than just because they were babies.

Some 'problems' become much smaller when you stop trying to fix them.

[Bluepolkadots42]

@snowpatrolling Pace feeding is what is recommended to mums wanting to do a combination of bottles and feeding directly at boob. It helps to ensure baby doesn't lose all interest in feeding directly at breast where the milk can be more slow flowing before a let down occurs. If you are exclusively bottle feeding- whether boob milk or formula or mix, then there's no need to pace feed.
If baby is offered a bottle every 2-3h they will be much more likely to have patience with the pace feeding. I got v lazy with pace feeding around 8 weeks but luckily it didn't seem to have too many ill effects until my baby hit 4 months and now I have had to go back to pacing a bit as they were starting to get pissed off at the breast that the milk wasn't flowing immediately and would scream and refuse to go back on boob.

[WorryMcGee]

I am so so glad I posted now, thank you everyone who has replied to me. Breastfeeding is not going to work out, I need to deal with my feelings around this as a separate issue - and as that means I don’t need to pace feed I will stop as lots of you have advised. Just the thought of not having to wrestle the bottle out of her mouth every two seconds has made me feel relieved. We’ve been doing this paced feeding thing since we were in hospital and she needed top ups as she was starving while I was trying to harvest colostrum with syringes :-( then the lactation consultant we paid for told us to keep it up - but now I see that’ll be because she was advising with a view to us breastfeeding at some point. No one has ever been able to latch my baby on without nipple shields, and that has always been a fight in itself - by which point the poor thing is exhausted and falls asleep before she’s had enough.

[Crossornot]

Nobody really knows what they’re doing OP, honestly. Babies can’t tell us what they want and it’s an awful lot of guess work. I don’t have much advice but can tell you that my 8 month old (exclusively breastfed) baby used to do a lot of uncomfortable squirming/grunting/etc when he was a newborn. I’d actually completely forgotten about it until reading your post because he just grew out of it. Their bodies are undergoing huge adjustments and I think most of the time whatever’s “wrong” isn’t actually anything you’re doing/not doing at all. It’s also completely normal for newborns to make a lot of bizarre and very noisy noises during nighttime sleep - not helpful or relaxing I know.

Pumping puts a tremendous strain on the body and mind so if I were you I would stop now, switch totally to formula (on which your baby will thrive), offer it more often than you think you need to and let her drink until she’s done, and try to get lots of rest yourself. Keep going!