Don’t know what I’m doing and feel very low :-(

[WorryMcGee]

I have a 4 week old daughter. Initially I thought I was coping okay but now I’m not sure I am, and my husband is about to go back to work.

She was born via elective c section and some milk did come in but we have had so many issues (I started another thread on this) and after spending a fortune on lactation consultants, shields, supplements, you name it I have almost made peace with the fact bf is not going to happen. I have hired a pump but now have mastitis, ducts on one side that won’t unblock and severely cracked nipples on the other side (and a sinus infection yippee) I’m managing to get about 200-250ml a day so she has that and Aptimil formula for the rest.

I mention the feeding because I’m worried it’s why she’s so unsettled at night/around feeds. She shows no hunger cues at all - I really do look for them - until it’s too late and she’s screaming. We pace feed her and she screams and strains and writhes around whenever the bottle is not in her mouth. She screams when trying to wind her as I thought it might be that. She stops screaming completely when she’s not hungry but feeding her is a total stressful nightmare as it’s a fight until she’s full (she was like this on the breast as well, another one of the many reasons it didn’t work out for us - she would whack the nipple shields off or if I finally managed an okay latch she’d move). She possets a bit but it’s not projectile. When she’s not hungry she’s very calm, happy to lie in her bassinet and look at everything, naps fine and only cries when her nappy is being changed. If it was reflux she’d be uncomfortable afterwards right? Not screaming during the feed but then totally fine afterwards?

At night - and only at night - she grunts and writhes around and won’t settle. She also sounds snotty and kind of gurgly? This has gotten worse over the last week and last night was impossible - she woke up at 2:30, I fed her, and she wouldn’t settle at all - eyes like saucers and grunting/writhing/whinging whenever I put her down. This went on until my husband fed her again at 5:30 when she started screaming, and then we just got up as she wouldn’t settle again. She’s bloody well asleep now though. In her pram bassinet. Silently with no fuss whatsoever.

I was worried it was wind so tried infacol which doesn’t seem to do anything. Cycling legs, tummy massage, all the burping tricks - don’t work, just upset her. Saline drops and tilting the crib doesn’t do anything - but she doesn’t need any of this in the day anyway so I don’t understand why we have problems at night.

In the back of my mind a voice is telling me that all of this is because I’m not breastfeeding her. I‘ve gone from dreading breastfeeding her to dreading feeding her at all because of the screaming. I spoke to my GP when I saw her for the mastitis and she said it’s normal and they grow out of it? I feel so tired and ill and low 😞 sorry for the long post.

Just let her have the bottle without taking it away. She drank 40ml, let go of the teat and is now asleep. No screaming. I’m crying with relief, it’s the first time in four weeks I’ve fed her with no screaming and fighting.

Honestly, stop worrying about breast feeding, I didn’t even try it as I didn’t wish to and I’ve a happy healthy adult child now. It’s really not a big deal. Feed your kid regularly every three to four hours and let her eat till she’s full. She will sleep better with a nice full tummy, being starving hungry is shit for all humans, irrelevant of age. She will hopefully start to gain weight now, her system will develop and you can get to enjoying each other. 💐

@WorryMcGee I'm so happy to hear that!! Honestly, we've had such a fight with feeding too and I see so many similarities in our stories. I tried to breast feed but her tongue was too small to latch, tried nipple shields but she would just scream whenever we tried, I pumped colostrum and fed it from a syringe, pumped milk as much as I could and she was always so hungry and unhappy. I spent days crying, phoning the midwives and my family in floods of tears with everyone saying it gets easier and it honestly took my HV asking what joy me or my baby were getting from feeding to just stop, switch to formula and gain some mental space back.
It's still a journey - there are days where she vomits or screams because she has stomach cramp but we are both so much happier!
Sending you a very unmumsnetty hug. I hope it gets easier for you from here ♥️

And also, I think the bedtime saucer eyes are just a thing that they do. Like they know that you want to sleep but they'd rather play!
If you don't already, keep the lights low while you feed, don't change the nappy if you don't need to and try and keep them swaddled while you feed if you can. It doesn't work for us every time, but we might get one or two feeds in the night where she goes straight back to sleep after.

So pleased to hear this!

I did what I thought was “paced feeding” with both mine and it was just holding the bottle horizontal so that she didn’t HAVE to drink. (If you hold it right up then the milk dribbles out and they have to swallow or choke which can lead to gulping air.) I’ve never heard of four gulps then take it away?

also OP babies are just really bad at breathing, sleeping, eating, generally existing. They’re born 3-6 months too early for mammals and for the first few months everything is a struggle. At about 2-3 months both of mine seemed to figure it out and drink better, wind better, and stopped snuffling like hogs all night.

You’re in the trenches. This too shall pass. Good luck!

That is brilliant news @worrymcgee! So pleased you both had a great feed experience 😀 this could definitely be the solution to some of the problems you were having.

Hi Op,

My baby wasn't giving much cues either, I just offered her the milk every 2-3 hours.

I'm also pace feeding which involves holding the bottle horizontal and there is milk in the teat. This way she can control the speed of the flow. (taking the bottle away after few sips is just bonkers).

I also do a baby massage that is very beneficial for babies and helped us with bonding.

I've never heard of paced feeding involving taking the bottle away every few gulps! It's about adjusting the angle of the bottle so that milk isn't free-flowing into the baby's mouth and they have to actively suck for it. That way your baby can take their own breaks by slowing down or stopping without milk continuing to flow.

I have a 15 week old and have been where you've been.
Firstly, c-section babies can be congested for first few weeks because the fluid hasn't been pushed out whilst travelling down birth canal. Mine was congested for about a month for this reason. My baby wouldn't lie down at all. All sleep was cuddled whilst upright for about 3-4 weeks. This improved until she got a cold. Colds last around two weeks in infants. It's hell! Saline drops do nothing. Buy a nasal aspirator. You can get one that attaches to the vacuum cleaner. It's called baby-vac. Safe for newborns.
Secondly - none of this has to do with you not breastfeeding. I am breastfeeding and my 15 week old has been congested and unsettled for around 10 of those weeks.
Thirdly - I went through hell trying to pump with my first DC. Really, you don't need the stress. If they're taking formula, that's great, give yourself a break!

I’m so grateful to all of you who have commented with advice and stories. Coincidentally I had my postnatal visit from the perinatal mental health team today (they supported me when I was pregnant because I had antenatal anxiety/depression, pregnancy hormones did a complete number on me!) and she said in her off the record opinion I should stop pumping and let it go, because at some point I will have to stop anyway and I’ll feel the same grief then, so all I’m doing is kicking the can down the road. My husband agrees and says he just wants me to be happy. Maybe if this new way of feeding improves things I might stop worrying so much that the “issues” are because I’m not bf, and I’ll find it easier to move on?

I have no advice on feeding but just wanted to say that my bf twins are screamers too. Ear splitting shrieks that will make the neighbours think we're murdering them. Sending sympathy (or empathy, can never remember which is which) and virtual ear plugs.
You've done amazing pumping for this long. I had to do it for top ups and dropped them immediately as soon as I could. Any pumping mother has my utmost respect.

Just a quick one to say, I have a 2 year old and when he was born I experienced all the things you've described with breast feeding - latch consultants, breast feeding counselling, tongue tie snip, etc etc etc. Baby readmitted to hospital due to weight loss etc. I pumped for 5 months and gradually introduced more formula. It was really hard so I know how you feel. I just came in to say don't feel bad about stopping pumping. It was the best thing I did as I could actually cuddle my boy instead of being hooked up the whole time. Just stop if you want to.

Also, if you can afford it just use the ready made cartons and save your sanity. Life is too short.

Spoke too soon. She downed 90ml, guzzled despite me trying to hold the bottle horizontally and slow her down, spit up everywhere and screamed. So the problem isn’t solved after all :-( tried to burp her, she just screamed more. I can’t do this 😢

I don't have any good advice, but I had exactly your problem 2.5 years ago. After 4 weeks of trying to latch and failing, I bought a double elvie pump on credit card and that saved our breastfeeding journey, and made me feel slightly less like a failure. I think I cried nonstop for about four months until my supply established. It was hell.

But.

You don't need to breastfeed to be a good mum. You are already doing so well. She's had a bit of breastmilk, that will do her the absolute world of good compared to none at all! In the meantime, just battle through these first few weeks, cuddle her lots, and above all be kind to yourself.

I know it feels like the most important thing in the world right now, but in a couple of years time you won't remember the pain. And you'll have a beautiful little girl who adores you.

💐

You can do this. It's the hardest time when they're so little and you've had one good feed today so that is progress. Is there anyone who can take her for a few hours to give you some rest?

I remember my DS screaming the house down, wouldn't feed, wouldn't sleep and at the end of my tether, I called my MIL at 2am crying. She came round (an angel) fed the little bugger and put him straight down where he immediately went to sleep. Sometimes someone who isn't madly sleep deprived can really help.

I also echo the Gina Ford, DS never gave any cues and the routine saved my sanity, it took a few days to get into it but it really worked for me.

I just feel so clueless and out of my depth. She’s just had another 65ml and has fallen asleep. So the screaming was because she was still hungry and I didn’t know ☹️ I thought I was only supposed to give a certain amount of formula at a time? I just want the best for her and I keep screwing up 😢

I'd just feed on demand until she starts to slow down or lose interest. Just use a slow flow teat. Wouldn't be worrying about set amounts. Just feed her till she isn't hungry!

@Hugasauras I have MAM newborn anti colic bottles, are they slow flow? Possibly a stupid question, sorry 😞

I'd imagine so if they're newborn! Just feed her till she isn't hungry. When DD was tiny, milk was basically the first thing I offered at most signs of grizzling and I just let her feed/have as much as she wanted until she was happy. Growth spurts, certain times of day, etc. can make milk amounts per feed variable anyway, so set amounts don't really work that well when they're tiny IMO. Best just to be responsive and feed as needed until they are settled.

Are you pace feeding the bottles?

Because if not, do this. It will help. Look at Mimjumi bottles, they mimic breast and so distribute milk more slowly as nature would. This helps minimise gut damage.

It really sounds like this could help you a lot. It's not difficult, just a bit more time-consuming. I had to use this method too as mine was also on expressed milk and formula.

I used Spectra S2 pump which was worth every penny, it's double and electric and I aimed for 10mL more milk each pump, which I got, and this way increased my supply from 50mL/day to 900mL/day and was able to get her off formula.

I also got a latch at 3.5 months. If you would like me to explain how I can do this for you also.

Thanks @Hugasauras 🙂 we’ll throw the numbers out the window for now then. I desperately want her to put on weight, I imagine she wants to as well! So I should trust her if she tells me she wants more.

Oh god. And winding is a bitch. Mine will refuse to give anything up despite best efforts... then promptly do a neat little vomit as soon as I've given up and laid them down. When I pick them up to wipe them... ta da! A burp! 🙄

@moomintrolls we have been “paced feeding” in the way one feeding consultant and one lactation consultant told us to, but it seems this has been causing us more problems than it solves.

I don’t think I can carry on with this pumping thing indefinitely, if I’m honest with myself. I hired a Medela symphony but I’ve still ended up with mastitis in both breasts. The whole experience of trying to breastfeed has left my mental health in tatters. Until her mouth is bigger we don’t have much chance of a latch, and even then we will likely still need shields due to my nipples and her palate 😞 I worry that persevering with this until her mouth is “bigger” (whenever that may be) will be too much for me. Thank you for the offer of help though 🙂