Can we stop forcing children to give and accept hugs and kisses?

[Pleasecreateausername]

Just a bit of a rant really. Does anyone else feel the same?

We don't want our DD who is 3 to be forced into giving or accepting hugs and kisses. We say that it's her body and her choice. It's just frustrating as I feel like this boundary is challenged almost daily and on most occasions emotional blackmail is used to get the hug e.g 'I will cry if you don't cuddle me'. Many times, the 'no' is not accepted and they just cuddle and/or kiss her anyway.

Our DPs definitely think we are being over the top - but how can a child navigate keeping themselves safe and understanding consent when they don't have a choice in the matter.

Any advice about how to make this boundary clear and accepted by people who clearly think we are being 'over the top'? I don't want to have to speak for DD, I want them to respect her when she says no.

Completely agree and we approach it by asking our children it say goodbye. They can then say goodbye however they see fit from a wave, goodbye, hug, high five, fist bump, up to them entirely.

Sounds like the issue is say squarely with the adult that is guilt tripping the child into hugs. The adults need ti get on board or fuxk off

I completely agree with you OP, it’s a complete lack of respect for children.

I know older people who treat emotional blackmail of children like some sort of fun game - trying to make the children feel guilty for their own entertainment.

For example, ‘can granny have your chocolate bar?’ And then pretending to cry when the very young child rightly says, ‘no it’s mine’. And pushing and pushing and pushing it until the child is completely confused about whether the chocolate bar is really his or not.

Drives me insane. I am pregnant and will be keeping certain family members well away from DC.

What a weird post. I received hugs and kisses from one side of my family growing up and the other side were not like that. I'm thankful for the former as it's made me show affection to my own children and tell them 'I love them'.

At parties, I’ve seen my Granny grab our friends’ toddlers, who she doesn’t know at all, and say ‘come and sit with granny’, with this horrified 18 month old squirming desperately to get away. Is this a generational thing? Do old people think they are above common decency?

We still talk about my very academic extraordinary sister's absolute horror when she got to her fancy Down South university and encountered the private school cheek kissers.

It's fine. She didn't need to change, the world did. Handshakes at the absolute max!

My parents, sister and I didn't have a 'kiss and hug' environment, we all loved each other but weren't particularly demonstrative about it, later on my sister moved to France with her husband and over the years she's adopted the custom of cheek kissing, this is something that my BIL and neice do too, however, right from being three years old my nephew (now 19) has never been comfortable kissing anyone including his own family, he has never been pressured to, we respect his feelings, he's happy to give hugs. I'm 58 now and I remember as a child that 'cheek kissing' wasn't nearly as popular as it is these days, I still don't feel comfortable kissing people outside my own family therefore I respect anyone who feels the same way.

And yes grandparents have to ask for a hug too. And accept whatever the answer is with good grace. What a stupid question.
I hug my own child all the time, but never when they show any signs of not wanting that contact. It’s really not that hard. Babies either lean into hugs or squirm and pull away. Once they become verbal toddlers you can ask them. ‘Do you want a hug?’ and teach them that saying ´no’ or pulling away will mean the hug stops/doesn’t happen.
Adults (even grandparents and parents) are not owed hugs. Babies and toddlers need to be given physically affection from their parents and trusted adults. But it’s not fucking difficult to do that while respecting the right of the child to say no to/reject those hugs and kisses whenever they don’t feel like it.

Yes this is so important for teaching consent. I also don't force my children to share their food or toys, and stop the moment they ask me to (or don't start) regarding things like cuddles, tickling, rough housing. We also have the pants rule in my house, both as in the NSPCC thing and an actual rule about wearing pants at all times (except the shower/bath, or when being changed). I try to always give them a choice as regards there personal care. Eg. Do you want mummy to help you wipe? It takes more time and effort can be a PITA but I am happy to be building their 'consent muscle' and opening up a space to talk about any issues they have. I started around potty training age.

I think its quite a fine and difficult balance to strike. As a species our physical closeness aids social communication and cultural norms, its part of the transaction between us during interactions. As a society we are naturally withdrawn anyway. My parents werent kissy huggy types and I cant remember if wider family were and I think that has made me quite inhibited around people over my life.

On the other hand we do need to give people the right over their own bodies.

I dont think its a straight forward as some are making out.

My point simply was that in DH's line of work, etiquette was incredibly important and it was a particular cultural environment that expected confident hand shakes, and kisses with women.

He wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes if he hadn't learned very quickly to be able to read how a person was intending to greet him/take their leave and reciprocate in kind. It's a skill and you do need to be taught it. Part of that is just sheer confidence.

It might be that some posters on here and not planning for their children to run in these kind of circles, and that's fine. But it would have been a shame if DH had not succeeded. He adored his job and I and our children benefitted immensely too.

Etiquette IS important but in my experience, handshakes are far more the norm in business meetings. As I said earlier, in many religions it would be offensive to try to kiss people of the opposite sex. Its always best to err on the conservative side in business rather than try to force bodily contact when you have no idea how its going to be taken

It is in most of the world,, this is why this is quite a UK based (and we're more comfortable with having those boundaries) than world wide view. I think america might be more like us too.
But in much more demonstrative countries or where there is a fairly stylised and expected meet and greet etiquette you would be expected to do that or cause offence.

I agree with you and it makes me angry tbh

The thing is, again in the particular circles I'm talking about, no one blunders anywhere. Everyone is consummately confident and able to read social queues instantaneously.

If a man went in for a firm handshake and got a wet lettuce back, he wouldn't ever say anything to indicate surprise. If a woman leant in subtlety for a kiss but my DH didn't pick up on it, she would immediately change tack to hide the awkward moment. But it would be noted, and have a detrimental effect. A feeling of him not quite fitting.

It came naturally to me but DH had to learn it as an adult (with help from me), and he is so grateful as he adores his career. It's the sort of career where you belong even after you retire.

As long as you start to teach them at some point that actually high fives and waves won't cut it as adults. When do you start teach them that?

Yes, and I have noticed the exact same thing but the other way around- people going in for kisses when its highly inappropriate and has caused religious offence. There are MANY cultures where hugging and kissing are not the norm at all and anyone in the business world would know that and err on the side of caution.

Sorry I didn't give advice

My advice is be firm, stand up for child even if it feels uncomfortable and say something like "it will mean more when she actually chooses to hug you"

Honestly there is so much wrong with our society. How about the fact people think it's ok to touch a child even if they're a total stranger? I was at a wedding last month and a very sweet elderly man touched my 14mo toddlers cheeks, she gave him an annoyed look like she didn't like it (understandably!) and he did it again. I mean, what am I supposed to say? Get your hands off her? People think that they are owed it? It's appalling and the same as the way men think they have the right to touch a woman

@ParisNoir this might be where our experience diverges as my DH didn't work in business so never went to business meetings.

@ParisNoir part of my husband's WOULD absolutely have been about being aware of cultural norms and responding in kind - that is the whole point of etiquette. If he travelled abroad he would fully apprise himself of the etiquette surrounding greetings of that culture and follow it faithfully. Likewise if visitors came to us from abroad, they had studied how to greet us and would follow that. Often a source of great hilarity actually.

Hilarity for all parties I mean. A lot of laughing with, rather than at.

I agree. I think its awful that we dont give children the choice to hug and kiss whom they want. Its such an unhealthy thing to teach children and its no wonder we struggle with boundaries when older.

The touching thing also drives me crazy. Why is ok for people to just touch babies or children?- my kids had this done to them by strangers before I had a chance to protest and I could see they hated it.

Imagine how those people would feel if a sales person came to the door to get them to buy something and just started touching them on their face. I highly doubt they'd be fine with it yet apparently, its fine for kids. Its not right and we need to stop doing it.

My MIL is the worst for this. She goes in for a kiss on the lips saying give me a kiss and if the kids squirm away or say no she'll say well I'll steal one then and kiss them anyway!!!

And in fact, when I think about it, if we are too rigid about allowing our children to ignore cultural norms for greeting/departure, might be make them LESS able to adapt to other cultural/religious norms, than more? A sense of their own comfort being of far more importance than the other person's?

My husband was able to adapt when he went abroad BECUSE he had realised that it is important to greet people how they would like to be greeted.

@Holly60 interesting point. There is a middle ground between forced cuddles and not greeting at all, not acknowledging a meeting. Having a standard way to greet people (handshake/ air kiss/ brief hug as appropriate) actually makes it all less fraught

Maybe I will start suggesting my kids shake hands with people!

I think you've put it brilliantly.