Close friends with horrible children

[SantasComingToTown]

Just looking for some advice from anyone who has experience of a similar situation.

My Best Friend who I’ve known since we were 3 years old has a 3 year old DS, I have a 1 year old, and as much as I love her, her child is so badly behaved I’m at the stage where I don’t like my son to be around him.

I know he is only 3, however there is absolutely no discipline from her side at all. She just lets him run ragged and he really is quite a spiteful little boy. He runs in the road, and has nearly been hit by a car 3 times when I’ve been with them, pulls a full shelf of products on the floor in the supermarket (which gets left until I pick it up). He’s banned from my house now as last time he came round he terrorised my poor pet, pulled my voile curtains and tension road down, scratched my hardwood floor, bit a chunk out of one of my candles, completely trashed the place and then also broke some of my sons toys. This was all acceptable to her, so I asked them both to leave. He also nips and bites other children.

I’ve been really blunt about this whole situation to her and how I find it unacceptable to allow him to treat someone else’s house, animals and things in this way, but the response is kids will be kids, he’s a toddler, he is learning, and that he doesn’t listen to a word she says anyway so there’s no point in telling him off (which is right he doesn’t). She hides behind the fact her son is ‘cheeky’ and ‘cute’ to justify his behaviour which I don’t think is helping the situation.

Whether I agree with it or not, it’s up to her how she raises her kids and if she allows him to trash her house etc that’s her problem, however his behaviour is now affecting our relationship, as I’m at the stage where I don’t want to go anywhere with her when I know her son will be there too (which is pretty much all the time). We’ve always gone on day trips together so it would lovely to go with both our kids too but as hers is so badly behaved with no consequences, I don’t want my son to pick up on his bad behaviour and start copying. I do so find it really stressful going out with them as I feel I have to watch her son as well as mine own, so he doesn’t hurt himself or someone else.

Has anyone been in a similar situation and how have you managed to protect your relationship with your friend?

Why on earth would you want to be friends with someone like that? Her values differ from yours. Move on. Some friendships run their course, this one has for you.

Very tricky. Have a similar situation although not as close to the mum as you seem to be. I won't ever arrange a play date with my friend's child again after his behaviour towards mine, but I really like her and will see her on her own. Ours are a bit older though so maybe easier to do. I do think you have to be absolutely resolute on this and see her only without the kids though. Make it a girlie dinner/ lunch / coffee only type of friendship for now. Forget the day trips etc.

My son is 3 and I am not perfect by any means and neither is he, BUT he would never behave like that in someone else’s house. He doesn’t even in ours !
Id be raging if a friend let her child smash my house up and terrorise my cats… they wouldn’t be coming back!

I had this sort of situation with a friend and made sure I saw her only when her child was in bed, at school, or out, over the years, as the child grew older.
This was mostly due to her child's extreme possessive attitude, wanting all of her time and clearly resenting friendships and her going out for the evening and having other adult activities, although the behaviour was also bloody awful and my friend couldn't seem to modify it.
The child's behaviour and possessiveness didn't change with age, either.

As it turned out, I couldn't protect the friendship into the child's adult years, as seeing the grandchildren became conditional on my friend giving up almost all other activities apart from childcare, and giving up friendships, days out, etc.
I can understand why she fears losing her grandchildren and that this is the choice she has made. I miss her though.

Sounds like the child has special needs. My ASD daughter was a bit like that but not as bad. Thats why i dont have friends or go anywhere except the playground😁.

Its just easier to stay home than go to someones house and have to be on tenterhooks. Her behaviour is better now but im just tired.

Our friends have two kids who are horribly spoiled (or 'were' - maybe they grew out of it). We purposefully drifted apart from them as we couldn't stand to be around them. Their parenting style confirmed some niggles we'd always had about them being really materialistic, egotistical and selfish. When their son pulled up plants in our garden and terrorised the amphibians in our pond, to be told ever so sweetly that if he stopped the Easter bunny would buy him a new bike, I thought 'I'm done!'

Sounds like you need to let this friendship go, or just meet her for evening drinks without the kids (if possible). I certainly wouldn’t be hanging out with her she sounds a nightmare!

I have a friend who is completely relaxed about parenting, she’s a good mum in some ways & adores her kids, but she doesn’t enforce (or try to enforce) things like basic table manners, and would let her kids jump on my sofa, for example.

last time I visited her she let her kids blast me with water guns (it wasn’t a particularly hot day and I had no spare clothes). I would never let my DC blast a visitor with water guns (unless they had specifically said it was ok.)

Also her kids just don’t engage with mine, so when we go round for a play date they kind of ignore my DC and carry on with whatever they are doing, so my DC don’t especially like going there anymore.

I now just see her when her elder kids are at school . I’ve not said anything but deliberately only contact her during term time!

Appreciate your response, but for me I don’t feel our friendship has run it’s course completely, I still have a great time when we manage to get a kid free evening, it’s just during the days that I’m finding hard.

Yes thank you so much for your reply. I completely agree with you. It’s so hard to find time to see each other even with the kids let alone without, which is why I’ve been persevering with the day trips outside of my home, but I think it’s definitely time to just move on from that part and only go out as adults until a time where either he grows out of it, or his behaviour starts to improve.

Me neither! That’s exactly how i felt. My son is only 1 but I’ve been teaching him manners since he was little. I would be absolutely mortified if he behaved like that even though he is probably still too young to even understand at the minute.

Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate your opinion since you’ve been through something similar. I think it’s a good idea to do what you’ve said and just see her without the kids. Hopefully as he gets older his behaviour will improve but if it doesn’t, at least I can try to maintain a relationship with her outside of the children. Such a sad situation as we’ve been talking about how amazing it would be when we have kids and they can be friends like us etc for years, and unfortunately it couldn’t be any further from that dream.

I have wondered this myself, but didn’t really feel it was my place to say anything at the minute. I have a really open relationship with her so I might wait until he is a bit older and see if the behaviour stays the same and then maybe suggest something. I don’t think that would ever cross her mind that something else may be going. She’s in a bit of denial about the whole situation to be honest.

Aw, I don’t know you but I find it really sad you feel like that. You should absolutely be able to have friends and go out. Have you tried to connect with other parents in your area with children with the same diagnosis? If you haven’t it might be a good place to start as your little one will be able to do their own thing without judgement as everyone will be in the same boat x

I totally feel this!! My friend is always bribing him to do basic things. He won’t sit in the shopping trolley or pushchair without getting a lolly or chocolate, and once that’s gone he makes a total scene until he gets another one. She said to me the other week ‘give it a few months and you’ll be bribing him left right and centre (meaning mine)’ and i just said ‘I’m not negotiating with a 1 year old over sitting in a shopping trolley and I certainly won’t be giving him a lollipop to do it’ lol

If he's 3, he'll start school soon and it might be possible to meet your friend without him. Or ideally, he'll be taught how to behave properly at school and the teachers will have a word with mum so that he does the same at home. She's really making a rod for her own back though, isn't she?
I hate the excuse of "he's only little, he's still learning" when not backed up by any action. No, he's not learning because you aren't teaching him that it's wrong and there are consequences! And one day he won't be little and he'll still be behaving like an arsehole.

Thanks for you reply, I’m going to give it a go and see if we can arrange regular girls nights instead and see how that goes first. I really don’t want to let the friendship go, she means so much to me. Just a shame her kid is a complete terror.

It sounds like your friend has children who behave very similar to my friends. Going out for lunch with them I just cringe the whole time, I’m so embarrassed, as her kid doesn’t sit down to eat. He is either running round the restaurant with food in his mouth (which is a massive choking hazard despite being disgusting), annoying other people by keep going up to their tables or is standing on the chairs shouting or banging cutlery on the table. I know some kids are naturally inquisitive and may approach another table and say hello, I still wouldn’t allow my son to do it, but if for any reason he did, I would apologise and sit him back down. I certainly wouldn’t let it happen several times and think ‘oh how cute’. Once is cute, twice is borderline annoying and by the third time, I would not find the funny side at all when I was trying to enjoy my food . I’m so thankful my son is there so it’s obvious my friends kid doesn’t belong to me lol.

A good friend and I, who I met through our children, have often discussed that sometimes even people you thought were your best friends just have such a different parenting style, it's very hard to maintain the friendship with their children.

The solution is absolutely to pull back and try to spend time with her child free. The good news is that it doesn't have to mean the end of your friendship. I have a good friend whose children were unbearable. I hated the way she was with them and the kids themselves were awful to be around. We saw each other without kids. Then there was a period where, to be honest, it was a bit strained. But we're coming out the other side now and our friendship is as strong as ever.

Similarly, my sister had a huge wobble about her longest, oldest, dearest friend when they had children at a similar time - they just couldn't get on because they had such different approaches to parenting. The kids are now teenagers and the two families are as close as ever. There was just a few years when they limited contact.

One thing I will say - your friend very clearly has no boundaries with her DS, so I do understand your pain. But I do think you are being a little too judgemental. To say, "I would never let my child..." is possibly a little optimistic. Sometimes they do it anyway. The point is that you wouldn't be relaxed about it and let it continue! (I remember telling DH, while heavily pregnant, after a call with a friend who had a 14 month old who wasn't sleeping that "no child of mine will not be sleeping through the night at that age". hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.)

I have a similar friend, as far as possible I see her without her child and never on my premises. This child is almost an adult and I'm looking forward to seeing more of her without the child (whose behaviour infuriates me, it hasn't got much better over the years tbh)

meet without kids as much as possible and remember you could well have an active naughty 3 year old soon enough and she'll possibly have a much more sensible 6 year old and the situations could well reverse!

Does the OP's description of her friend's 3 year old really fit into the category of "lively and naughty"?!

I think I am lucky because the people I am friends with tend to have roughly the same parenting ethos as me. On the few occasions when a child behaved badly at my house (being reasonable and allowing for age, family context possible SEN etc; I don't think any three year olds are "spiteful" tbh) I have let the friendship quietly lapse!

Yes that is very true, although he’s only just turned three so won’t be starting until next September. I did suggest she starts him at nursery in the hope that someone would have a word with her about but she doesn’t feel he needs to go there…what makes the whole situation worse is the fact she is also a primary school teacher so I dread to think how the class she teaches behaves if she can’t discipline her own child, but that’s a whole other discussion lol.

You are exactly right with the last paragraph, took the words right out of my mouth to be honest. I always try to be polite on topics like this but he does absolutely behave like a little asshole 😂

How is it if you meet at a neutral place like soft play or swimming? I have a friend who is very liberal and her son would damage my house so we only met her for a while in the evenings. Her son was very tactile and would always end up hurting mine, it was like he had to hit him or something. So we took a complete break and gradually reintroduced with us watching very carefully ready to intervene/stop the hitting. Took a long time of us not meeting up but we have started to again and while her child is still v tactile he hasn’t yet punched or whacked mine so hopefully it’s going to be ok.

Thank you for this! This is what I needed to hear. It’s so easy to say just stop the friendship, but the thing is, I don’t want to. She’s like my sister and I would never want to be without her. Like you said, I just have to accept that we have very different parenting styles and i don’t like the way she chooses to parent. I feel her sons behaviour is a direct result of that but at the end of the day that is her burden to bear not mine. I think initially it will be a bit difficult to go out and forget about the kids and the issues I have with hers, but over time I hope we can put it behind us.

I think before you have kids you are a bit naive to the fact that it won’t change life long friendships. Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought I would be kicking her out of my house but I did!

Only see her in the evenings, without kids. You could go for a drink , meal, to the cinema etc.

When her DC gets to school she'll have a rude awakening but that's not your problem. So long as you don't send yours to the same one.