Close friends with horrible children

[SantasComingToTown]

Just looking for some advice from anyone who has experience of a similar situation.

My Best Friend who I’ve known since we were 3 years old has a 3 year old DS, I have a 1 year old, and as much as I love her, her child is so badly behaved I’m at the stage where I don’t like my son to be around him.

I know he is only 3, however there is absolutely no discipline from her side at all. She just lets him run ragged and he really is quite a spiteful little boy. He runs in the road, and has nearly been hit by a car 3 times when I’ve been with them, pulls a full shelf of products on the floor in the supermarket (which gets left until I pick it up). He’s banned from my house now as last time he came round he terrorised my poor pet, pulled my voile curtains and tension road down, scratched my hardwood floor, bit a chunk out of one of my candles, completely trashed the place and then also broke some of my sons toys. This was all acceptable to her, so I asked them both to leave. He also nips and bites other children.

I’ve been really blunt about this whole situation to her and how I find it unacceptable to allow him to treat someone else’s house, animals and things in this way, but the response is kids will be kids, he’s a toddler, he is learning, and that he doesn’t listen to a word she says anyway so there’s no point in telling him off (which is right he doesn’t). She hides behind the fact her son is ‘cheeky’ and ‘cute’ to justify his behaviour which I don’t think is helping the situation.

Whether I agree with it or not, it’s up to her how she raises her kids and if she allows him to trash her house etc that’s her problem, however his behaviour is now affecting our relationship, as I’m at the stage where I don’t want to go anywhere with her when I know her son will be there too (which is pretty much all the time). We’ve always gone on day trips together so it would lovely to go with both our kids too but as hers is so badly behaved with no consequences, I don’t want my son to pick up on his bad behaviour and start copying. I do so find it really stressful going out with them as I feel I have to watch her son as well as mine own, so he doesn’t hurt himself or someone else.

Has anyone been in a similar situation and how have you managed to protect your relationship with your friend?

Very true! I try not to be too judgemental when it comes to kids as I know the sometimes like to do the complete opposite of what you want, but I approeiatebwhay you are saying. Mines only one so in two years time, someone might be writing this thread about me 😂- I highly doubt it though. If anything good has come out of this situation, it’s taught me that i need to teach my son from a very early age, right from wrong.

Haha, I’m quite lucky with the sleep side of things, but I definitely have had similar things happen with other bits and pieces over the last year…I’ll never let my son watch CBeebies is one of them 😂

Isn’t it so strange, how other peoples children turn out to be and how mad they can make you?!
my friend is honestly one of the nicest people I’ve ever come across which is why I’ve been friends with her for so long. Sometimes I can’t get my head round, her son came out of her lol

Very true, although her child has been naughty from about a year old, it’s just got progressively worse over time. I would never normally call a one year old naughty as I have one myself and know they get into mischief sometimes, and I never did at the time when hers was so young, but looking back and seeing the difference in his behaviour to my owns it’s quite shocking what she used to let him get away with. Throwing metal cutlery across a small busy cafe was one of them. Not the fact he threw it as he was only playing at the time but just because she kept giving it back to him for him to keep on throwing it, and then when it hit a little old ladies feet, wondered why I took it away from him.

I’m sure my son will have his moments in the next few years but I’m hoping with the way I’m choosing to raise him, they will be few and far between and when they do happen he will listen to me..only time will tell

Yep I phased out a friend for similar reasons. We got thrown out of a cafe once because her kids were so badly behaved and all she could say was "I won't be going there again, they aren't kid friendly!" They were actually very kid friendly to kids who sat down and ate their lunch and then went to play on the playground, but less friendly, understandably to the kids who threw food across the room at other diners and kept running into the kitchen and nearly knocking waiters over.

Definitely not normal toddler behaviour. I’d be amazed if her child isn’t special needs, probably autistic or adhd. I know a similar child and he turned out to be both. But even SEN children need to find a way to interact positively with those around them! Sounds like the mum is in total denial and a bit of a crap parents .

Stop meeting as a family. See her in evenings / for coffee at weekend when her kid is at home with the dad.

Or accept that the friendship may have run its course, sad I know but it is very very hard to maintain friendships with completely different parenting styles.

For the most part he is okay towards my son, but even when out he will often just come up and pinch his ears or try to bite him. I know someone else has said they don’t believe a 3 year can be spiteful but I don’t see how just randomly coming up to much younger baby and for no reason pinching his ears isn’t done on purpose. A 3 year old is old enough to understand basic right from wrong, but at the same time it’s not his fault he’s never been taught it. I do draw the line at pinching etc though, and I know when he’s going to do it by a face he pulls so I can step in. Swimming is a no as my friend doesn't swim. I just find places like soft play and the park so stressful because at soft play he will pick up the smaller pieces or toys and just throw them about or stamp on them and snatch away from other kids. It’s like he doesn’t know how to play, which is really sad, but at the same time no other kids want to go near him because he’s horrible. Places like the park he just does a runner. I’ve had to grab him 3 times to stop him for running straight into the pond there. I know he’s not my child but I do feel somewhat responsible for him when I’m out with them and I’m actually quite embarrassed by his behaviour most of the time. It’s coming up to the nicer weather so I will definitely try to see them outside more now but if it doesn’t work, I’ll just have to take a step back from the family events and only see her in the evenings or when we can get a minute by ourselves.

Barring any SEN, your friend sounds like an idiot and a weak parent. All of what you say is also unacceptable behaviour for me and my children.

You do need to teach your kid right from wrong etc but mine is probably a similar age to this boy (just turned 3) and she is far more challenging than I could ever have prepared myself for! I mean she's not anything like this kid and we get a lot of compliments on her good manners, kind behaviour etc, but holy hell I thought I had it all figured out and suddenly she is just the most ornery, sassy, no-shits-given little b*gger. She does as she sodding well pleases. I know the 2s are meant to be bad but 3 feels waaaay more sophisticated and complex. At 2 I still had a semblance of the whole "I would never let my child... XYZ" but my principles have gone out the window since she turned 3. Honestly, you don't know until you get there. You will make some extremely dubious choices if they get you through the day. No judgement, everybody does sometimes.

This said, you friend's child does sound like his behaviour is totally unacceptable and your friend is not really doing anything effective to stop him. My daughter would never never get the chance to destroy a friend's property as this boy did at yours - we would be gone in the first 45 seconds. I don't think her behaviour would ever be quite as extreme as his but I can't swear that she wouldn't consider one incidence of it, and it's not for want of my not having brought her up properly.

My son was a total handful at that age. Not as bad as the OP, but hitting and biting other children. The difference is, I tried my best to be on top of it even if it meant that I cut the playdate short to bring my son home. Yes toddlers are very young and impulsive, but they quickly learn what they can get away with and it would drive me crazy to have a friend whose child was, basically, wild.

I am friendly with a lady whose son is very antagonistic. He teases my children in front of her and she just says his name in a jokey/exasperated way ('Nathaaaan') or says 'oh he's such a bully' with a 'what are they like?' kind of laugh. Her daughter snatches my kids' things and won't give them back, and there is a whole pleading and begging scene to get her to give it back. It's embarrassing! I try to never see her with her children as she is actually really lovely.

I think some people have very low standards for their children's behaviour and they will continue to reap the results of this attitude as the years go on. Its sad but I am completely with you. All kids play up, some have exceptionally boisterous personalities but parents absolutely must put boundaries in place. The things that is the saddest, is that the parents end up creating a child that nobody likes.

I totally see your point of view and would avoid him too.

Totally agree with this. This child does not sound 'cheeky' or 'cute' at all. He sounds like a nasty little brat who is never told NO. If my kid hurt one of my friend's pets (clearly hasn't been taught how to be kind to animals) or broke one of their toys I would be mortified, not laughing. She sounds weak and immature. She'd better free up her post 4pm calendar in a year or so's time as she will be called in to speak to her kid's teacher very often me thinks.
Enjoy your nice child and ask her to leave her kid with her partner when you meet.

Sometimes you are taken by complete surprise when someone becomes a parent. I have the loveliest, most generous friend ever- always assumed she'd be an amazing, patient parent. But when she had a kid, something weird happened to her and she just spoilt him rotten. Her and her husband went through a separation and I think she felt guilty so she spoilt him. Sadly, she's now reaping the benefits of it and he's playing up at school and acting like a brat. He has no special needs, its simply that she never said no to him so of course, when he's at school and cant get exactly what he wants its like the end of the world to him.

I have to admit I did used to avoid meeting her during non term times because her constant pandering to his whims when we were out became really disruptive. Eg he'd suddenly demand we go to McDonalds even though she had already taken him there earlier in the day. Even my own children remarked on how spoilt and brattish he was so he must have been quite bad. Now I just make excuses for times I know he'll be with her and try to meet up with her for girly evenings out or weekend breaks away. Its sad but you cant really tell someone else how to raise their child without ruining the friendship.

I’ve said this a few times on here already but I honestly could have written your response myself. This is exactly the attitude she has when out and about, and it makes me feel embarrassed to go back places in case they remember me lol

A few people have said this now about potentially being SEN. My husband and I have thought that in the past myself but after seeing so many people mention it as outsiders it is making me wonder. Next time we talk about his behaviour which does happen often, I might bring it up. I’m lucky we have that kind of relationship, I don’t think she would be offended by me saying it, but sometimes I think you are blind to your own children so it may not have ever crossed her mind before. She is in denial for sure. Although I do think she’s becoming more aware of it now as some other people in our friendship group also have young kids and as we have been seeing them alot recently, I think she’s finally realising that his behaviour is really very different to the others.

I will definitely start meeting up in the evenings rather than during the day. I start a new job soon which is weekdays part tIme so it will make it easier to say my availability is only in the evenings mostly.

😂this made me laugh, straight to the point, I love it! Like you said barring SEN I’m tending to agree on the rest if SEN isn’t playing a part.

I can't believe this child has run into the road three times...is your friend a psychopath who is hoping he'll die?

That’s for the insight. I’m a first time mum so I am yet to experience a three year old of my own. I am absolutely expecting some challenges along the way. My son won’t be a saint by any means, he won’t be the perfect child as I don’t think that really exists and I don’t judge her for using the odd chocolate bar as a way of calming him down in a busy supermarket full of people. I would probably do the same occasionally.

I just find it crazy how this is her everyday life, all day every day. The bribes are constant, Ive said to her before that she’s rewarding his bad behaviour but she doesn’t see it that way, she sees it as a easy way out. I think the main issue is the complete lack of discipline. Even when he has nearly been hit by a car (it had to emergency stop and swerve to avoid him), there was no consequence. It was just heres a chocolate button, hold mummy’s hand which he refused and that was it. I was the one who went over to the driver to check they were okay and she was half way up the road by that point.

Exactly this is it! I’m not expecting a 3 year old to perfect. They will test you I know that, but it’s your job as a parent to guide them correctly and teach them right from wrong. I would do exactly the same and just leave.

Im sorry your kids are being teased this way. This is exactly the situation I want to avoid with my own son. Part of me hopes my friends boy will grow out of his behaviour, another part of me can’t see how he ever would do if he isn’t shown the right way to behave and I don’t want it to escalate beyond being a naughty toddler to being a complete and utter piece of work, that no one wants to invite to their birthday party!

There's always loads of perfect parents on the parenting thread casting judgement and congratulating themselves on their own apparently perfectly behaved DCs - usually one PFB girl!

Difficult to know if this child is genuinely the Son of Satan or whether he's a perfectly normal boisterous toddler who just appears badly behaved when compared to your own, much younger non walking baby.

But be careful to judge as it may come back to bite you in the future. Hopefully your own DC will never set a foot wrong.

Its not about being a perfect parent- none of us are perfect. However, its about it being bloody obvious that if you never say no to a child and give them zero boundaries they will turn into a spoilt nightmare and it will actually make life extremely hard for them in the long run. You dont need a degree in child psychology to realise this

When my son was 3 we went to McDonald’s as a treat with a work colleague who had a son the same age . As we got in my son asked if he could go and get a booster seat so he could reach the table, I said yes and he went and got one. My friend said” will he actually sit on it up at the table?” “Err yes why?” was my reply, “ oh well mine won’t as he runs round the restaurant, “ she said. I have absolutely no poker face but clearly she didn’t notice my face because she continued “ yes, it’s a bit of a pain when he nicks other people’s chips as he runs past, I have to keep apologising “
Sure enough that’s exactly what he did. Needless to say that was our one visit to McDonald’s together.

I made the mistake of going on holiday a few years ago with a friend and her 2 boys, - the men were doing other things, her kids were a total nightmare, we've hardly spoken since.

That the cost of disruptive children, whatever the cause.

I have friends who have a very different view in what behaviour is acceptable.
I only meet them outside.
If their child's behaviour is dangerous to my child I intervene.

My husband said the same thing about her 4pm calendar. My friend is a primary school teacher herself, and he was saying can you imagine her boss the headteacher having to call her into the office to discuss her sons behaviour. It’s a bit mortifying to think of it that way!

I definitely feel this way. Out of all our friends, I thought she would be the best parent. She’s a teacher, and so kind. I thought she’d have a absolutely angel, and it’s the complete opposite. I’m not saying she’s a bad parent by any means as despite his behaviour he is well looked after and cared for and she loves him dearly, she just has a very different style to me and I find it highly irritating lol.

Since I’ve become a mum myself, my priorities have changed and I just don’t want to spend the days I do have with my son being irritated by someone else’s child. Life is too short!

Believe me, the thought has crossed my mind! The first time was in a open car park - he ran onto a main 50mph trunk road, thankfully nothing was coming. The second time was in our local town centre where a car had to swerve to avoid and the third time in a car park. As soon as he got out the car, he ran, right into the path of a another car coming up the ramp on a blind corner. How he didn’t get hit on any of those occasions I have no idea. He obviously had someone watching over him those days, or he is a reincarnated cat and kept its 9 lives!