Do your children play on their own? Mine do not - aged 5 and 3 - and it is really beginning to get on my nerves.

[Oliveoil]

Constant, CONSTANT mithering and pestering

they have tons of toys, get lots of attention but I do not want to play with them all the feckin time

how can I get them to feck off and play on their own?

They follow me around when I am trying to get stuff done, when I am trying to have a conversation with dh - even when I bellow I AM TALKING!!!! they just wait 2 seconds and then say mummmmmmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

please help before I buy myself a shed with a lock on the door

dooley1, yes, batch cooking.

morningpaper, 'my own time' in the blueshoes household means 'time to do chores without screaming children' - oh, luxury to peel a garlic in peace and quiet ...

Have to say that DD (4.8) has always played alone quite happily, and I have always encouraged it.

I can see that all children are different and that there are children who are less happy to play on their own, but I actually would consider it unacceptable for a child to demand constant adult attention. As a parent I think its part of my job to teach my child to behave in a way that I can live with. If (as does happen occasionally) DD is told that I am busy and that she needs to leave me alone, and she refuses to, I'll put her in time out for ignoring what she has been told (or possibly shout, depending on the sort of day we are having )

It really gets to me when I see a friend for coffee and their dc/s are constantly 'there', wanting this and that and play with the lego for me and I'm scared of the toilet and blah. Parents need and deserve their own time.

[mean selfish mummy]

I AM sympathetic but you sound as though you are saying "I'm giving in to their tantrums"

Sleep training people don't like doing because they worry that their child is stressed / scared which is different to when children are just screaming because they aren't getting their own way, but they know you are there, happily doing YOUR thing, but they are just screaming because they want you to do a jigsaw etc.

So if you hoovered/did the laundry while they were around, what would they do? Because I am quite happy to hear a tantrumming child scream, it doesn't worry me, that is just their way of trying to get you to change your mind. Surely they stop when they realise it has no impact at all?

I don't mean they would stop QUICKLY. I just mean, over the course of hours/weeks they would realise it had no effect. Mummy was still DOING the laundry/hoovering/reading the paper. Hmm. How dull. Perhaps I will play with this Barbie instead...

Agree with MP - it may take a while but when children realise that they cannot make you do what they want by shrieking at you then they will stop doing it.

I do feel guilty every now and then, as I never sit playing with dd - but I doother things, like go for walks, go to the park, cook with her etc. I just cannot bear sitting there dressing dollies or making train sounds.

I don't intend to ignore them ALL the time nor do I give in to them ALL the time. So say I do the 'training' over the weeks and months and it finally works. Come one day, what if they want to play and I am happy to, then what? Do I play with them (in which case, give my children an inch and they will take a mile) or continue to ignore them just as not to break the 'training'?

I appreciate the advice but until you understand what it is like to have children this determined, it is not as simple as you describe.

And yes, there are times they do tantrum and I ignore them. And it still continues. They are my children, much as I moan on a thread like this. I shall stop though. I don't mention it much in RL, just that the thread title struck a chord in me.

No of course you don't ignore them all the time I always refuse point blank to do what my children want unless they ask nicely. There is no way I would let them get their own way by screaming, not when they are 4.

But you seem really miserable that you have no time to yourself and you spend all your non-child time doing 'chores'. That seems to be bothering you.

Wouldn't you PREFER to get all the chores done during the day, THEN give your children attention? You are saying that this isn't possible.

It just feels that there COULD be a middle way somewhere that doesn't leave you feeling horribly frazzled.

DS1 is absolutely awwwwwwwfulllll at playing by himself or with his brother.

DS2 is a bit better at entertaining himself, but is dreadful if his older brother is involved.

I think I must have heard Mum, Mum, Mummmmyyy, Mummmmmmmmmmy where are you 100 times or more today. This is all day everyday.

The only thing they can do vaguely on their own is to watch tv and even that is often accompanied by whines of "come and watch with me".

Arrrghhh...

Come one day, what if they want to play and I am happy to, then what?

If you've done the chores you want to do, and had a cup of tea and read the paper or whatever else you want to do, and they ask nicely, and you want to, then of course you play with them.

But if you need your husband to prevent them from hanging off you and screaming while you cook it seems like a miserable way to live.

I don't ignore my children AT ALL, EVER - I am happy to talk to them all day, I am happy for them to help me, I am happy for them to watch me. But I am not going to drop the laundy to do a jigsaw - or do chores when I could be sitting down MNing or working in the evening!

I don't mean to bang on, but you seem to have resigned yourself to a really grim situation.

I am so utterly thrilled to hear that I am not the only mother who is bored rigid by playing with children. I have a bit of a complex about this (i.e. that I am not a v. good mother because of it).

I hate trains.

Your posts are like a revelation MP.

Seriously. I am going to put some changes in place tomorrow.

Thanks for the concern, morningpaper. Actually my day-to-day isn't so bad. Due to conflicting demands, I have structured it such that I get most of my chores out the way after I get home from work and before ds gets home from nursery at 6pm. I also have a live-in aupair. Plus dh is instructed to get home as early as he can. So he has early starts and generally aims to be home by 7:30pm. Plus children are delightful when played with

Blueshoes, I have a theory that my kids are more demanding because of our au-pair.

She panders to their every playtime need. I think they have become conditioned to the fact that all adults are just theirs to play with.

What do you think?

dejags you are a WONDERFUL mother!

I had a perfectly lovely childhood. My mother and father ran a shop, they were always there - although working - I had a big garden. I played all the time. I had lots of toys. I had lots of books. I had two much older brothers who were often around with their teenage friends. I didn't have friends my age but my family was around and I pottered and played and it was great.

My children have SO MANY MORE OPPORTUNITIES THAN I HAD - so what are they missing out on exactly? They are both close in age, so have an instant constant playmate, they go to a nursery where they are surrounded by lovely, educated women who love to do nothing but entertain them with educational games and activities all day, their father baths them every night, reads them stories, takes them to the park and the library, I've taken them to music classes - their lives could not BE more perfect! They have EVERYTHING. They have 100X the attention and opportunities and excitement and adventure than I had. And I was perfectly happy!

WHY women feel "guilty" when they are not "entertaining" their children I do not understand. They are children. They play. You are an adult. You do chores and wash and cook and read papers. Of COURSE you are there for them, to chat to them and love them and cuddle them and tell them how marvellous they are and how adored they are. But surely they are meant to PLAY? While you get on with YOUR things?

How we have come to feel GUILTY about this arrangement is utterly bonkers. Our children have fabulous lives and if they know we love them utterly surely that is enough?

ah dejags, I got the au pair (partly) because they were so demanding. They were demanding before she arrived. Now that she is here, dd and frequently ds won't go to her when I am in the house. So the focus is still on me (to my chagrin because part of her role was to shield me from dcs, when the need arises). But at least I can get the au pair to chop veg instead!

I only have one dd who's 5. She's sort of in between the children described on here in that she'll sometimes go off and play by herself, chatting away quite happily, and others she really wants me to be involved in every little thing she does.

One thing I have noticed is that when I'm stressed with something, have my own deadline, and I'm 'pushing her away', i.e. slightly desperate for her to get on with something on her own, it never works. When it's more relaxed, i.e. I have to do a simple task or I"m too tired to play, it's usually fine. I've also noticed that when she's demanding, if I drop what I'm doing for 10 minutes and focus on her totally, then she'll usually be content to continue something without me. If I'm continually telling her I can't play / look / help then she wants me all the more.

Like mp, I'm always happy to chat with dd, listen to her, have her help, but I can't be at her beck and call all the time.

With regard to guilt I have to say I do sometimes feel guilty that as dd's an only child and we have no close family nearby she does tend to spend above average time by herself if I'm not involved with her. Maybe rather than guilty it sometimes makes me feel a bit sad for her. She's shy at school and already spends much of her day playing by herself (the teacher tells me she's very reserved socially and only rarely joins in with the other kids) so I do feel she deserves a good part of my time and that she feels my time is being given to her with good grace.

ha! Imaginaryfriend's post strikes a chord.

For my part, I have always noticed that my dc's desperate need to be with me is in direct proportion to my desperation to be without me.

Most of the time, they can entertain themselves perfectly well, but if I am in the slightest way under the weather, irritable, depressed, whatever, they can sense it from the other end of the house and will be right there clinging. Or so it feels.

There is a very instructive scene in David Attenborough's Life of Birds, the bit with the water birds, where the food gives out. The more the chick keeps pestering for food, the more the parents rejects him. The more they reject him, the more desperately he pesters. And so on until they end up pecking him to death. Not a scene you can watch with the kiddies, obviously, but one that I like to recall to my own mind to remind me of three things:

the chick can't help pestering- it's instinctive

the parents can't help their frustration- it's instinctive

I'm actually doing rather better than these water fowl, as I haven't pecked anyone to death yet

Also finding this very reassuring as I also feel guilty about my boredom threshold for playing with dd (2.5 - so hope yet??). Over the last year, I have started to encourage independent play which I also think is important. I was an only child myself - and was probably overskilled in that department.

I do try to do some chores - and dd will try to help. But I really hate housework myself - so a day spent playing and doing housework is a grim one to me. Some things I can play more than others.

We are both happier going out - but you can't be out all day every day. The breakthrough I really need is the day dd will tolerate my reading while she plays (oh joy!) - without coming and climbing overme, pulling the book off me to 'read like mummy'.

I also hate doing chores at night - that really is depressing. I also see that as my time - even if I use it to work - at least that's my chosen work and not chores.

Like the idea of a dedicated film evening when she's older.

glad mine aren't the only ones that always shout for mummy all the time.

Very interesting Cory - yes it does seem like that!

Ah blueshoes, I have a nanny and I also suspect that this hasn't helped DD's behaviour, because the nanny just plays and plays all day with her (of course!).

So I moved her to a nanny share instead, so on the days she is with her nanny we have a second child so DD isn't getting constant attention. Apart from the stress of co-ordinating all the extra children and adults, it's worked quite well. I also did it to wean her off our nanny ahead of school, which starts at the end of the month here.

Yes, cory, that was what I was getting at.

Even as an adult one can relate to that. If dp is ignoring me, in his own world, it makes me start to feel like I need a 'reaction' of some kind from him. Whereas if we've had a good, even if only 10 minute, chat when he's busy I have no problem at all with him going off to do his own thing. In fact the truth is I quite like it when we're doing things independently. It's a case of being independent in a secure rather than an insecure way.

morningpaper, your post made me think about how much my dcs get to do compared with what I did as a child. Maybe that's part of the problem, why they (and lots of others from what posters are saying) can't entertain themselves because they are always having things organised for them - after school clubs, toddler groups, parties, playdates, whatever.

I make a point of not letting them be too busy. But it goes against what I find easier, which is to go out and do loads of activities so they are not hanging around me in the house. Of course we play together in the house too.

dd1 has been my most attention-seeking (she will do shameless stuff to get attention!) and being the first I had no-one to compare her with so probably gave in to her demands too much thinking this was "normal". I now know that all 3 dcs get plenty of attention (from me, dh, and each other) so I do not feel bad about forcing (that's what it sometimes is!) them to go and amuse themselves. They should be able to do this.

From reading this thread I think I'm at the ruthless, meaner end of the continuum. For example, if one of my dcs was screaming because I wouldn't come and play, they would just have to scream - that's not how you ask for things. And I think it was blueshoes who posted about her dd wanting her to come to the toilet with her - if I knew she was old enough to go on her own I would let her wet herself! Sorry but I would.

Finally, others who understand!!! So relieved and thrilled to see this thread that I can't decide whether to weep or do a Peter Crouch shuffle ... Thank God for Mmsnet.

Brilliant posts here. Couldn't agree more Cory and ImaginaryFriend.

PMSL at Bozza's description of her dc following her up and down the stairs - when they're up we're down and vice versa - dd does exactly the same! She also does the "look at me" routines as described by AHUndredtimes.

Tbh though, I think it is a mixture of personality and learned behaviour. I was very keen from the outset that dd should be able to occupy herself for reasonable periods of time and have set fairly strict routines in place to try to accomplish this -BUT she is a a really sociable child, a people person... She loves nothing more than being with others. It's as simple as that.

What works for me is a combination of Kaz33's method of setting up an activity and sneaking off + Foxinsocks and ChocSpiders stopwatch strategies. DD is much better when we have a regular designated time for play, a period just for her when she has my full attention, and after that she can (usually!!) settle to something alone.

Failing all that, I just tell her she has to help me while I work. She's even started repeating the mantra "work before play Mummy". It all takes twice as long of course but lesser of two evils.

Agree with MorningPaper about NEVER responding to whining and getting chores done during the day. Disagree about significance of playing with dc though - saw the sainted Dr Tanya Byron on TV recently saying that play between parent and child is extremely important to a child's development - I've felt guilty ever since tbh....

Oh, nearly forgot, never EVER say "Mummy wants some time on her own now please" - tis like moths to a flame ......

It would be fantastic if mine played on their own in their rooms for1/2 an hour ages 2 (girl)and 4(boy) but i think they are still young enough. They are not bad and have there moments of playing on their own.Something they do on their own is watch a dvd/video. My eldest likes to do this in lounge and youngest has 2 videos she likes to watch in mummies room. Know this is hot the most ideal activity but at least you get a break and we don't have any other family helping out etc. We do have a very good neighbour who is there if i need her, which hasn't been 2 often lately so cant be that bad considering its the holidays and dads been working a lot & weather etc. I really worry about this sort of separation anxiety i/they seemed to have developed and wish i could hit the nail on the head as to what it is. I love them so much and just want them to be happy and relaxed and worry that the way i am is not helping. Can anyone help/comment? Thankyou so much.