At my wits end with my 12 year old behaviour. PLEASE help

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My 12 year old DS's behaviour has been terrible for a while now. It's getting to the stage where I wake up on egg shells.

Some of the problems -

Constant backchatting and disrespectful comments. For example barking at me to "hurry up" in the morning.

Constant battles when he doesn't agree with what he's being told to do. He is like a dog with a bone and will just not do what he is told and goes over and over the reasons why he thinks he doesn't have to do it / wants to do something else. He will literally stand in the same room and keep it going. It's so draining.

Not doing what he is told. For eg me and his dad said he cannot go out of school for lunch for the first year at high school. I found out he has been doing this. He just does what he wants and doesn't really care much if he gets found out.

If he gets consequences he will shout that this won't work, that it is just going to misbehave more. He will refuse to hand the phone over and shout.

One issue is that he goes to his dad's 3 days and nights a week and he is well behaved there. He respects his dad, but has no respect for me. They have different rules and routines there, and his nan (who his dad lives with) spoils him. This isn't a recent change though, he's been going there 3 days every week since he was very young and we split up.

Another problem is that I'm on a very low income so there isn't much I can remove as 'consequences'. His phone is about all I can remove. There also isn't much I can give as 'rewards' because I can't afford it.

He says he cannot change his behaviour, cannot help it. Our relationship is becoming fraught and our house tense.

What can I do to turn this around? If anyone has any advice I'd be really grateful?

Does his Dad respect you? Could he help?

@allinadaystwerk No his dad doesn't respect me at all I don't think. I get the impression he gloats at himself as being the 'superior' parent. I wish we could work together on this. I don't think he gets it because he doesn't misbehave there. If I call him on a particularly bad occasion of behaviour, he just responds with "deal with it yourself"

In my experience, rewards and consequences don’t work for everyone so I wouldn’t get too hung up on that. I know exactly what you mean about walking on eggshells as my DD’s the same, but rewards and consequences just stressed her out more. ‘The Explosive Child’ book is worth reading, as is ‘Get Out of My Life - But First Take Me and Alex Into Town’.

High school can be really tough. If his friends leave school premises, and he’s faced with being left behind or obeying you, most kids would do the same.

[quote BreadProductionLine]@allinadaystwerk No his dad doesn't respect me at all I don't think. I get the impression he gloats at himself as being the 'superior' parent. I wish we could work together on this. I don't think he gets it because he doesn't misbehave there. If I call him on a particularly bad occasion of behaviour, he just responds with "deal with it yourself"[/quote]
That right there could be your problem OP. If his dad is talking about you in a disrespectful way in front of your DS then he's learning that it's ok to be disrespectful to you as well.

You need to get some respect from him. Tell him that he can ask his dad to pay for his phone going forwards because you are not going to.

It sounds as though his dad isn't doing him any favours at all here. I have two relatives who went through similar with their teen boys and their arsehole dads. The good news is that the boys turned into lovely young men who adore their long suffering mothers. The best route seemed to be seeking help through a school councillor. Some will offer mentoring schemes with positive male role models. One of the woman asked a police officer (she worked with the police) to come and have a chat.

Yeah I did get that about the school. It's just that he doesn't respect me at all. He does it with everything.

I'll see if I can get those books.

I love him so much but he just doesn't care, he is always shouting "well you don't care about me" "what are you going to do with me - adopt me??!!" "I'm not coming back after school if you take away my phone"

@scaredsadandstuck His dad never outright says anything disrespectful about me. He doesn't say anything about me at all I don't think. DS knows somehow though that his dad doesn't respect me.

@silverbubbles I know. I need to get him to respect me. His dad doesn't even know he has a phone. He doesn't agree with smartphones but I felt he needed it when he went to high school. He said if he got a phone he would take it off him and put it in the bin when he collects him from school (one or two days p/w). I can't afford another one.

@ANameChangeAgain I was thinking that earlier today actually. That I think he would really improve with other adult male role models.

I think OP you are maybe nervous that he won’t actually come home to you if you implement consequences.

My instinct would be take the phone, games etc but I would try another tack first. Take him out for a coffee and speak to him like an adult. Show absolutely no weakness or hurt but do say how you were not raised to speak to loved ones this way, you don’t speak to him that way so why does he think this is acceptable.

Talk through the importance of a home life based on respect and love and that is what you want for him.

Do not mention his father but do say that these are your rules and you cannot tolerate bad behaviour. Say You are his mother and it is your job to show him right from wrong and he may not like this but it is from a place of love

If he kicks off , say shame I was hoping that you would be mature enough to discuss this. Do you think you might be ready to do so this evening ?

If there is still no joy, then you need to start taking phone for one day until he apologises. You can’t control your ex rules, but you can control yours

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Yeah I did get that about the school. It's just that he doesn't respect me at all. He does it with everything.

I'll see if I can get those books.

I love him so much but he just doesn't care, he is always shouting "well you don't care about me" "what are you going to do with me - adopt me??!!" "I'm not coming back after school if you take away my phone"

Do you try to make up with him when he shouts stuff like that, or can you let those types of comments wash over you?

My kids (similar ages) say stuff like this sometimes and I try to see it for what it is - them being angry and trying to get their own way. In response to the not coming back after school comment for example, I'd just say "Ok then, no problem. See you when you're hungry. I'll be here and dinner is at 6. You need to be back by then or I'll be keeping your phone for another day."

Comments like you don't care or are you going to get me adopted - just ignore them or calmly say "I love you very much but that doesn't mean letting you have your own way".

You don't need to be his friend OP or even have him like you. That's not your job as a parent.

I totally understand. My ds was an absolute nightmare at 12. He's nearly 14 now and getting very marginally better. I'm not a single mum but I have noticed my Ds is much better behaved when dh is around. If he's out, ds is much more rude and disrespectful towards me.

What is your ds interested in? Can you find some common ground. Does he do any sport? I find my Ds is usually more pleasant after a good run round the football pitch.

I agree with @merrygoround51 too. He's old enough now for a slightly more grown up conversation. Love the idea of taking him out for a coffee/hot chocolate or something.

@scaredsadandstuck

I agree with *@merrygoround51* too. He's old enough now for a slightly more grown up conversation. Love the idea of taking him out for a coffee/hot chocolate or something.

My ds had been vile and we walked to the chip shop together. We ended up having a very pleasant chat...all about football but it was a bit of a breakthrough!

My DS is 12 (yr8) and we've had this sort of conversation with him, a few months back when he went through a phase of blocking doorways so I couldn't leave rooms when he was angry with me. DH is 6ft+ so it was a "we need to have this conversation with you now and not when you're a 6ft 15 year old" talk about respecting adults, and how imposing he will be, and the risk of the police getting involved if he squares up to people etc.

I have threatend to take the TV control with me to work over poor behaviour, and the phone chargers (so he keeps the phone but has to hope the charge lasts long enough) but focus on "in this house, grown ups don't respond to each other like that" (he's not yet an adult but you do expect him to behave in a grown up way).

Thanks @merrygoround51. I'm really not dismissing what you are saying at all so please don't think that, but I have tried. We have heart to heart and also practical discussions quite a few times this year, I've taken him out to a cafe to discuss. He agrees he will "try his best", but the very next day he is back to the exact same again. I am willing to keep trying this though.

One thing I struggle with is how long to make the consequences. I do have an older child DD who is a young adult, but any behaviour issues with her were very short lived, only for a couple of weeks a couple of times. I don't know if a day is enough / too much. Definitely a couple of hours isn't enough, he just waits it out.

It needs to be long enough that he will try to change his behaviour next time. If he can wait out a few hours or a day then make it a week without his phone.

I assume he is used to going 3 days without his phone when he is with his dad.

Giving him a phone and getting him to hide it from his dad also isn't modelling good behaviour.

‘Get him adopted’ did you laugh? I don’t think there’s a lot of people queuing up to adopt stroppy teens.
He sounds silly and immature.

However, I think it’s important for him to be able to have lunch with his friends. It’s not a hill to die on.

He likes football and gaming, and science-y stuff too.

He goes to the local park which has football pitches, has his games, and goes to the afterschool science club.

One of the issues I think is that I don't have the funds for anything else to keep him occupied, I struggle to even afford his phone and his gaming. My wages are swallowed up by rent and bills and it's even worse with the cost of living increases and removal of the UC uplift.

He goes to a school in an area of high wealth, on a placing request, although it's actually far closer to our address than the school he was meant to go to, and I know that is an issue for him. He has this big chip on his shoulder about it and sees his friends all doing all sorts of extra curricular stuff and holidays. He is embarrassed that we live on a bad estate.

I was listening to a seminar recently and the speaker was talking about the development of the teenage brain. Couple of things I took away from it - there's huge amounts going on for them at this age, brain is making and changing connections frequently, so it's a turbulent time inside their heads and - this I thought was really significant, punishment rarely works but rewards are very effective.
You may not have much money but there are some good suggestions upthread. He wants to have more autonomy and choices and maybe these are the things he can earn by showing he has the maturity to make good decisions. You say he argues about being told what to do - what are you telling him to do? Are you still treating him like a child, what would be the consequences of him doing it 'his way' instead?
I don't have a very oppositional relationships with my DD but I have always (unless actually unsafe) let her learn from her own choices. No coat? Fine. She gets cold. She chooses to wear a coat next time. She's 14 now and I still sometimes have to phrase things in a certain way but she'll usually follow my suggestions.

Does he behave for his father because his father doesn’t put in any boundaries? If this is the case then he’s probably pushing you as a reaction to that, because despite him ostensibly getting along with his father, he’ll feel the lack of boundaries as a lack of love, even though he wouldn’t be able to identify or express those feelings. It’s like being in a relationship with a partner, it’s great when you get an easy life, but their lack of interest shows you that they aren’t really bothered about you and that they don’t care about you as much as you need them to. The reason you’re the one who gets it in the neck is because you’re the safe person, he knows he can push you and you won’t let him go.

I agree with PP, try to ignore the mouthiness. I noticed a marked improvement with my DS when I started to just ignore his stropping. I would say I’m doing X in 10 minutes, then if he wasn’t ready/didn’t cooperate I just get on and do it regardless, no further arguing, no constant reminding, I just let him crack on and miss out on whatever it is, be that dinner or going out etc. They soon learn from the consequences.

Kids push boundaries because it makes them feel secure when you pull them back, it’s frustrating as hell but that’s why they do it. In my experience staying calm, firm and consistent helps a lot. They’ll still push the boundaries because that’s what teenagers are programmed to do, but it’s the fact that those boundaries are there and that they know are secure that will ensure things work out in the end when they get over there teenaged toddler stage.

I have 2 similar age boys.
You need to hold the line on minimum expectations with regard to respect etc but expect him to push against it.
That's normal teenage behaviour.
I have a voice (not shouting but angry) reserved for when they really misbehave and it still works on my 14 y o.
My 12 y o reacts differently (takes offence) but he will back down.
Basically he is likely to be a twat for a year or 2, but you can still demand a mimimum amount of politeness.
He will probably turn out to be a lovely young man in a couple of years.

@MadeForThis I know re the phone and his dad. I actually didn't tell him to hide it from his dad. I told his dad I was going to get him it as he needs it to fit in, and his dad went mad at me (I don't care), then told DS that he would get hold of it and put it in the bin. He knows he would as well, it's not a bluff. DS begged me not to tell his dad. I probably shouldn't have went along with that though, I agree.

His dad is very difficult. To his dad, DS has to be unique and has to get A grades and nothing lower is good enough. DS told him he wants to be a teacher and his dad said that he should aspire to be 'better' than that. . I try and try to mitigate this by telling him that as long as he tries his best it's good enough and a teacher is a great job.

Would he like to do more extra curricular stuff? Not sure if it's up his street, but uniformed groups - Scouts, Cadets etc are not expensive, will subsidise kids from low income families to enable them to join and take part and could be a useful channel for adventurous activities and good role models.

So how is life at home? Do you think you might be suffering from domestic abuse at all ?

I ask this due to your lack of support and gloating from your DH/DP. Does he control parts of your life in ways that make you feel unhappy or uncomfortable.

Is that now affecting your DS and his relationship with you.

Look up domestic abuse online to see how much actually applies to your situation that you may see as being normal but really isn't

It really is like a teenage toddler stage! I am recognising that I do need to appreciate more all the changes his brain and hormones etc are doing. I am tired from work and my own stuff, and I just get exasperated with him quickly, but that's no excuse on my part.

Re boundaries at his dads. I'm not sure. His dad has always just demanded compliance since he was very young. If he disobeys his dad, his dad will withdraw from him as punishment. So he very (and I mean very, like two or three times ever) has disobeyed him. It is so difficult for me to hear from DS "but everything is perfect at dads, dad doesn't ever be late taking me to school, dad is nicer to me" etc. He also live with his nan when at his dads and she spoils him rotten.