At my wits end with my 12 year old behaviour. PLEASE help

[BreadProductionLine]

My 12 year old DS's behaviour has been terrible for a while now. It's getting to the stage where I wake up on egg shells.

Some of the problems -

Constant backchatting and disrespectful comments. For example barking at me to "hurry up" in the morning.

Constant battles when he doesn't agree with what he's being told to do. He is like a dog with a bone and will just not do what he is told and goes over and over the reasons why he thinks he doesn't have to do it / wants to do something else. He will literally stand in the same room and keep it going. It's so draining.

Not doing what he is told. For eg me and his dad said he cannot go out of school for lunch for the first year at high school. I found out he has been doing this. He just does what he wants and doesn't really care much if he gets found out.

If he gets consequences he will shout that this won't work, that it is just going to misbehave more. He will refuse to hand the phone over and shout.

One issue is that he goes to his dad's 3 days and nights a week and he is well behaved there. He respects his dad, but has no respect for me. They have different rules and routines there, and his nan (who his dad lives with) spoils him. This isn't a recent change though, he's been going there 3 days every week since he was very young and we split up.

Another problem is that I'm on a very low income so there isn't much I can remove as 'consequences'. His phone is about all I can remove. There also isn't much I can give as 'rewards' because I can't afford it.

He says he cannot change his behaviour, cannot help it. Our relationship is becoming fraught and our house tense.

What can I do to turn this around? If anyone has any advice I'd be really grateful?

I should be adopted, I can so whatever I like, I don't need to be nice to you, you can't tell me what to do behaviour to me all boils down to I don't feel loved by you. I feel invisible or a burden. Unjustified of course but that how he's feeling.

I would spoil him with affection, love, your attention, your interest in his hobbies/things he enjoys. Not monetary things. Tell him about what he was like as a baby/young child (the good bits only), how he's the best thing that's happened to you, the things you love about him, the similarities between you two, look at photos, reminise about the good times, praise him, have a joke and a laugh with him Even if you already do it. Kids need to hear this stuff constantly. It gets so tiring bigging them up all the time.

I'm not saying to have no rules, be a friend and not his mother, have no boundaries in place etc.

@BreadProductionLine That is a lot to contend with. Don’t worry too much about the material things. We had far less money growing up than my friends and our house was far less fancy - but always clean and with plenty of food. That and a nice atmosphere is enough for teens. True friends won’t care if your house is fancy.

Sounds to me like he behaves for his dad as his Dad is strict, has standards and expects his son to step up behave and perform.

Perhaps your son is trying out the behaviour he has learnt from his Dad on you. The bossing and dominating. He is trying to be the alpha male in his own space away from father

If your son has begged you not to tell his dad about the phone its because he knows that his dad delivers on his threats and will bin the phone.

OK,

Organisation is an easy one once you get it rolling

Punishment is actually fairly simple in the face of what are you going to do have me adopted shite say no im going to agree with your dad and not give you a phone

@Aphrodite31 Yes I think he is looking to me for reassurance and also he resents that our lives are different from his peers. Thinking about it, the worst of the behaviours started when he started high school last year. I try, I do try, but I am probably too preoccupied with the financial and health pressures, to fully support him. We live quite far away from my family and barely see them, and his dad has a very small family also with little contact, so there are not many people around to take the pressure off or be another adult influence.

@SE13Mummy Thanks I will look into the 1,2,3 thing. It might help to not have the long drawn out explanations where he argues that he wasn't disrespectful and that I am lying. I am so embarrassed as well because we live in a flat with very thin walls and in the stairwell you can hear everything. I am mortified knowing our neighbours can hear everything. Sometimes DS will deliberately stand beside the front door and loudly say things like "You are not feeding me" (if refused a snack he wants but offered fruit, for eg) or "this is abuse". I'm sure it's learned manipulation.

@BreadProductionLine Surely you just laugh when he says this is abuse or you are not feeding me.
I constantly get the ‘but I’m staaaaarvvving’ when dinner isn’t ready at the exact moment they first feel hungry.

I'd agree with the comments about emotional abuse from his father - it sounds like he's trying to gain back some control by giving you the same treatment, as you're his safe space.

I'd highly recommend a look at developmental trauma and therapeutic parenting, OP - he may need you to name the difficult feelings he's experiencing, and to help him hold them.... (The A to Z of Trauma Parenting is an excellent, straightforward primer if you do think this stuff might apply).

Big yes to buying/borrowing ‘Get Out of My Life - But First Take Me and Alex Into Town’. Very helpful book.

One really big take away from it is to verbally reinforce the boundary every time the undesirable/unreasonable behaviour happens, without feeling the need to go OTT with consequences, and starting a battle of wills. It's like a dripfeed effect.

And although lots of posters have recommended a more adult communication style, IMO this doesn't always work if you have a kid for whom, subconsciously at least, it's all about the battle. My DC2 almost never yet backs down or changes her mind in response to even the mildest or most sensible "reasoned argument". As soon as I get the sense that this is one of those arguments I explain calmly that I'm not going to debate it any further right now, and change the subject.

It is a bit "because I said so", which feels like a cop-out, but often for us the friction is over the sub-conscious need to win the argument at all costs, and reason/compromise doesn't cut it.

wrt money.

I have 3 teens.
aged 19, 16 and 14.

he gets £10 per week from his nan.

that is more than mine get.
My 19 and 16 both work for money. From us they get £5 per week.
14 gets less.

Why? Because that is all the money there is.
At 12 that feels huge, but as they get older, I can tell you my teens know and understand the value of money and have been prepared to worl for it.
Their rich cousins don't.

It isn't a bad thing. Tough, and at times frustrating, but he is clothed, fed and cared for.

Thinking about it more, I think he is being pulled in different directions.

His dad and nan's relationship can be quite toxic on both sides and there have been times (rare, but still) where there have been blazing rows and the police have been called and I've had to pick DS up.

His dad is a really really difficult person. Expects DS to be perfect at all times and will withdraw affection if DS is not 'performing' or 100% obedient. Rude to others a lot as well, like shop staff.

His nan spoils him and has very few boundaries. Has been known to undermine me before, ie telling DS he is right and I am wrong on a behaviour issue, or that I shouldn't be telling his dad if he misbehaves.

I am trying, but I am definitely harrassed and preoccupied with life stresses, and I can definitely get exasperated too quickly, lose my cool, and escalate things, thinking WHY CAN'T YOU JUST BEHAVE!! WHY ARE YOU MAKING FAMILY LIFE SO STRESSFUL. I do honestly try my best to listen to him, we watch films in the evening some nights and go walks, but yes, often I am stressed myself and can be dismissive. For example, when he says he is embarrassed about the area we live and some of his friends parents won't let them come here to play football etc. I will be understanding, but other times if I am stressed I will say "well there's nothing we can do about it so you need to get on with it".

I am watching this thread with interest as I am having similar issues with my DS 11. I am also a single mum and DS Dad also doesn't respect me.
After constant threats from me without following through, he is now without his phone and Xbox from Sunday through til Friday (when he'll be going to his dads)
I get a measured, reasonable response when we discuss it the next day (I'm sorry mum, I was angry, I shouldn't have spoken to you like that) but he seems to thinks it's normal behaviour for a pre teen to act like a toddler! Kevin the teenager has nothing on him.
The final straw on Sunday was him saying "whatever, you wanker" as he walked away from me following a telling off
I'm not sure what's happened to my lovely boy since he joined secondary school but I am really struggling with his behaviour and attitude

OP is there anything that would help you feel less embarrassed about the neighbours hearing? If you were the neighbour, what would you think was going on? I wonder if you would think, 'gosh that teenager sounds as though his mum is starving him, he's obviously short on energy..' or 'poor @BreadProductionLine it must be hard work living with a stroppy teen'? I know what I think when I hear neighbours' children going for it and I hope they think similar things when they hear mine on a bad day!

@steppemum The money he gets from his nan never comes here though, it's exclusively spent on things that he is not allowed to bring here (his dad's rule). So maybe I need to try match that. I don't think there is anything else I could cut from my budget though without going into debt on bills.

@merrygoround51 No it starts another argument when he says those things. I cannot stand that he is saying these things loudly in front of the door in an attempt to try 'punish' me (by embarrassment with neighbours) for not letting him have his own way. It's a trick his dad would pull for sure.
If I say that DD (late teens) is getting stressed by his behaviour, he will reply well DD is your favourite, you love her more than me (not true). It doesn't help that his dad decided he doesn't 'like' DD since she was about 10, and the feeling is mutual.

My sister is actually a parenting advisor. We don't get much chance to speak (she is v v busy), but she says that I take the bait too much and escalate too much. Her eldest is 4 though.

Oh that's tough with his money.

How about a small amount. Just £3 per week. He can save it up a bit, use it for eg cinema trip with friends once a month?

It isn't a lot, but it gives him a bit of independance. Mine also had the advantage that they walked past a pound shop on the way to school, so their money went a long way, bag of sweets, new headphones etc, all from pound shop.

@Minikievs I am sorry you are also going through similar issues with your DS. I am finding help from posters here, so hopefully you do too. It's hard to see solutions sometimes because we are so 'involved' with our situations maybe. I hope things get better for you too.

@SE13Mummy I suppose I just worry what they think. The downstairs sometimes bang up if he or I are shouting (although they do plenty of shouting and slamming themselves), and one family from the top of the block who were very friendly and chatty before all this now avoid eye contact and say nothing to us (likely because of what they've heard from us when coming down the stairwell). i know i shouldn't care but I do.

I am so embarrassed as well because we live in a flat with very thin walls and in the stairwell you can hear everything. I am mortified knowing our neighbours can hear everything. Sometimes DS will deliberately stand beside the front door and loudly say things like "You are not feeding me"

I understand this too. I calmly told my ds to turn off his bedroom light the other day and he screamed back at me at the top of his voice "leave me alone". My neighbours must think I'm a monster!

@steppemum He wouldn't care about losing £3. His nan struggles as well (still works in her 70s to pay bills but his dad who lives there doesn't contribute - another story!), but she does have more disposable than me, and buys him quite a lot, whatever he asks for, if she can. On top of the £10 a week pocket money. So that's why he wouldn't care about gaining or losing £3 from me.

It sounds like you both bicker and you take the bate. Be consistent, polite and fair. Do not be nagged into changing your mind.

Find some hobbies to share. What is he interested in. Ask for quality time together, it doesn’t need to cost money. Build a rapport. Have some fun together

Show him warmth, a hug, appreciation several times a day. Thank him for small things. Notice when he is kind and polite.

Ask him to think of solutions to problems

Go for a walk to unwind if you’re cross or reacting

I agree with taking the bait.

Don't get drawn into arguments with teens (ha ha easier said than done I know)

try (when he is shouting nasty things) thing like this with a bit of humour and a smile

well, good thing I still love you isn't it?
I don't want you to be adopted, I like having you here.
I love you both, the magic of parental love, it is unlimited.
Not feeding you! I must have imagined the lasgane I made ha ha

Seriously, it is an act. You need ot let thiese comments go. he is doing them for a reaction, and he is getting one. The very fact that he does it when others can hear is because he knows it winds you up.
So stop gettting wind up (or at least stop showing it)

You're not feeding me! Burst out laughing. Woudl be much cheaper if I wasn't feeding you! Now, let's go in and put the kettle on.
That's abuse! yes dear, parent putting in boundaries is abuse.
or - if you think so, feel free to call childline, in the meantime I'll put the kettle on.

and so on.

You can lower the temperature, becuase your side of the argument doesn't get 'hot'

I have been making time to watch films he likes with him recently. Usually I grin and bear it because it's not my taste, but a few we have both quite liked. I do hug him often.

I was thinking to suggest to go to the park to play the free table tennis. Not sure if he will be embarrassed to go with his mum though.

My sister is actually a parenting advisor. We don't get much chance to speak (she is v v busy), but she says that I take the bait too much and escalate too much. Her eldest is 4 though.

It does take 2 to argue. You have more control over this situation I think than you know and give yourself credit for!
Pick your battles. If he wants crisps and you offer him an apple, why not say have the crisps? Eat an apple later. Try not to argue in the first place. If you don't rise, or deflect with humour or even capitulation, it takes the power out of the argument. One piece of advice I read when DD was small was if you're going to give in, do it immediately, don't teach your child to nag at you.
You sound as if you have an absolute tonne going on in your life and looking after yourself isn't easy either.

My husband and I live in the same house and our teen son treats us differently. I believe its because my husband doesn't seem him as much and acts a bit desperate to get on with him. My husband will 'take' bad behaviour from him more than I will - and consquently our son behaves worse around my husband. I went to a parenting consultant once who said if you act like a slave to your child they will treat you like a slave. Are you acting like you lack self confidence / lack self conviction around him? Are you more lenient do you think because you feel guilty or want him to 'like' you? Its not a criticism at all as you sounds very nice. I am wondering if your son if taking advantage of your niceness. Money is not the issue here. Rewards don't have to be financial.

With my DS (15) I found it is good to talk whilst doing something eg walking somewhere. So if I want to talk to him I pretend I need him to come to the shop to get some washing up liquid or whatever and buy him some chips or chocolate. Then he ends up talking loads. I think boys especially don't like talking face to face. Maybe make it a weekly thing and you might find he opens up more. Also it's a bit annoying but I found I have to do more things for him now than when he was like 9 or ten, like I make him breakfast and lunch and he really appreciates it because he always gets up late. But I figure I don't have much time left with him so I don't mind. He makes dinner sometimes so it evens out.

I think the pocket money is less of an issue.
He gets £40 a month from his Nan. For context my 12 y o gets £12 a month, my 14 y o £15 a month.
Rather than giving him money I would save up to improve the flat so he can invite a friend round, and make you both more comfortable in your home.
He can get a job in a couple of years if he wants some extra cash.