ADHD DS12 shot child on school bus with BB gun - police involvement

[SphincterSaysWhat]

Hello, I am hoping for some thoughts from anyone who has been in a situation like this before - or knows someone who has.

My recently diagnosed as ADHD DS12 bought a BB gun from a friend at school, used it in school and on the bus - the pellet actually hit someone on the bus. I don't know yet whether he was trying to hit the other child with the pellet or whether it was an 'accident' (I am aware he should ever have got that gun out on this bus or in school etc).

He has been suspended, and the policy are involved - the school says the police will likely make a MARF which I've googled and can see it's a referral to social services.

I am very upset, for many reasons. I thought we were getting somewhere with him, and making headway with a child psychiatrist, some medication and we're starting therapy to try and learn how to parent him (and he too is going to speak with someone).

He's spent the last few months getting in trouble CONSTANTLY - vaping (in class) lying, stealing...it has been relentless but we are working through it.

I am worried about this referral - what will happen?

Help, I feel so lost. Husband is raging and my lovely MIL has just been taken to hospital with AF today - this all combined with two other children, a very full-on job and an elderly dog to care for means I feel a little frazzled. I wish I could disappear for a while.

@TracyMosby

There is a massive difference between intent to harm and acting on impulse But the outcome is the same.

I was going to say exactly the same. If some ends up dead or with life changing injuries their family and friends aren’t going to care much whether it was done on impulse or not.

@BertieBotts I watched that Russell Barkley presentation when my dd was first diagnosed, 2 years ago. It absolutely blew my mind.

I've since sent it on to many other parents with both diagnosed and undiagnosed teens.

It is the single most helpful thing I found to give me a greater understanding of ADHD.

[quote Littlefish]@BertieBotts I watched that Russell Barkley presentation when my dd was first diagnosed, 2 years ago. It absolutely blew my mind.

I've since sent it on to many other parents with both diagnosed and undiagnosed teens.

It is the single most helpful thing I found to give me a greater understanding of ADHD. [/quote]
I completely agree with this. Best thing i have watched or read on Adhd.

@BertieBotts post, excellent advice.

This thread angers me. This is a MUMSNET. If some of you step away from your keyboards for a moment and think, how often do you see posts from the parent of the child in the wrong, versus the other child. Very rarely is the answer. The OP has been very brave to even ask for advice and help. Last one I saw was a mum saying her daughter had been sending abusive texts, deleted. Because of the pile on. The parents of the children who never admit their child is in the wrong are the real problem.

Re the gun, we are very rural and OP I agree 100 percent with the gun training you have suggested.

Let's say someone had posted saying there child had played with matches. Everyone would be saying call the fire brigade, get them education. These guys don't mess about, they can sit 30 dogs on a command. They respect what they do. That's exactly what he needs. To be taught the seriousness of what he is dealing with.

@stripetop I read and understand what you say.
Are there no women following this with experience of firearms and clubs and training?
So far only one PP (male I think) has commented on that aspect.

How rough for you, obv he's running the risk of ending up with a record/ young offenders.
What kind of goals does he have, what's important to him? He needs motivation to stay out of trouble..is there much youth mentorship and stuff like that around you? Would he do a hobby that focuses on reward for discipline like martial arts or cadets?

OP I have experience in this area on a professional basis, you have my huge sympathy. You are taking this seriously and doing what you can with family therapy and a psychologist for your DS. It is very serious what he has done, but you know that, accept SS support. People suggesting that there might be residential care for your DS obviously have no idea how extreme a child needs to be to get residential care (this wouldn’t come anywhere close). I do agree that he needs to know that his parents have time for him, are you and your DH around in the evenings and weekends? This is something you need to prioritise at the moment but I think you know that. Good luck xx

@Drunkpanda she started off on 5mg and it was increased every week or two, depending on her reaction to it. If her blood pressure went up, she was kept on the same dose for an extra week to let her get used to it.

From memory, it took from June to September to go from 5mg up to 50mg.

@Poppy709

OP I have experience in this area on a professional basis, you have my huge sympathy. You are taking this seriously and doing what you can with family therapy and a psychologist for your DS. It is very serious what he has done, but you know that, accept SS support. People suggesting that there might be residential care for your DS obviously have no idea how extreme a child needs to be to get residential care (this wouldn’t come anywhere close). I do agree that he needs to know that his parents have time for him, are you and your DH around in the evenings and weekends? This is something you need to prioritise at the moment but I think you know that. Good luck xx

Excellent message @Poppy709

I am a solicitor too and I know the hours you must work as a partner in a law firm. How much time do you actually spend with your son? I know the money is hard to give up and I understand that you will never get the chance again but can you slightly reduce your hours if necessary? It is a regret of mine that I didn't do this more in the early years with my ADHD son. How much time does your husband spend with your son?

Is your son coping academically or has he given up? He may be acting out if he has fallen behind in classwork and can't keep up and decided to become the class bad boy. If this is an issue, extra tutoring can help. My son was heavily tutored throughout secondary school. I found a book "Right-Brained Children in a Left-Brained World: Unlocking the Potential of Your ADD Child" by Jeffrey Freed very helpful in terms of practical strategies to teach ADHD children eg the need for more revision to retain things than a neurotypical child. (I have no connection with the author whatsoever.)

Does he have a friend group or does he hang out with some children who might egg him on to do some things? Or is your son a bully? Could you get him into some clubs if he is friendless?

I did find open air activity very beneficial for my son We used to take horses out to hack round riding tracks on a hill farm but if he is a thrill-seeker you might not want him in charge of 300 kg of horse. Outdoor hikes or bike riding? Not outdoors but what about swimming lessons. I'd stay away from any martial arts training for obvious reasons.

@Poppy709

OP I have experience in this area on a professional basis, you have my huge sympathy. You are taking this seriously and doing what you can with family therapy and a psychologist for your DS. It is very serious what he has done, but you know that, accept SS support. People suggesting that there might be residential care for your DS obviously have no idea how extreme a child needs to be to get residential care (this wouldn’t come anywhere close). I do agree that he needs to know that his parents have time for him, are you and your DH around in the evenings and weekends? This is something you need to prioritise at the moment but I think you know that. Good luck xx

Thanks for your considered response.

Husband rarely works weekends and I don't either these days, unless I have a bundle thrust on me.

We do spend quality time with all three. I breakfast out and about with DS12 of a weekend and he loves it (just him and me, he's perfect).

It's not the money at the moment, you will know, it's not loads - some of my families have waited 7 months (SEVEN MONTHS) to get their contact matters to court. I can't walk away from them. I'll never again find a chambers to take me. It would ruin my career and my families who I've been with for years finally to get in front of a judge would never forgive me. I couldn't pass them off, I just couldn't.

I will receive any help with open arms - am wondering what other support they could give on top of what we're attempting ourselves, but he's my first 12yo - they'll have seen him over and over so they have the experience. I will lean into that and hear them. I don't think i know best - but I DO know somethings behind the curtain with referred cases, so you'll just have to take my word for it when I say I am wary for good reason 🤷‍♀️

Will continue reading backwards now, see how many times I get a kicking or have to explain again that I didn't know about what he'd done when I suggested shooting as a potential
Hobby. He has no hobbies, can't stick with them which his doc says is "very adhd" 🙄

[quote Littlefish]@BertieBotts I watched that Russell Barkley presentation when my dd was first diagnosed, 2 years ago. It absolutely blew my mind.

I've since sent it on to many other parents with both diagnosed and undiagnosed teens.

It is the single most helpful thing I found to give me a greater understanding of ADHD. [/quote]
Thank you for this signposting. Much obliged, will make a note. X

@BertieBotts

Have a watch of this. It will probably make you cry (fair warning) and it's very long, but it's life changing.

www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY

That's Russell Barkley. Best ADHD doctor on the planet IMO. He lost his own twin brother due to ADHD - his brother was very impulsive and died in a high speed car crash doing something incredibly risky. ADHD brains don't process risk like most people do - the problem is the risks DO apply to people with ADHD just like everyone else, so the challenge with this type of ADHD is learning to manage impulse control and look to external checks for risk management.

Then Ross Greene The Explosive Child is also great. If he is not generally explosive in behaviour, you can try Raising Human Beings. It has the same principle but is less alarming/scary if your child is not behaviourally challenging. Here he is explaining the comcept:

www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL96FCD5F40215BB70

Many of the suggestions on this thread will not work for a child with severe ADHD because the assumption (that he does not know the consequences of his actions, or does not fear/care about them enough) is incorrect. The idea that he will be able to try harder and therefore insert thought before action is incorrect. He says he will do this, because he has learnt that the correct answer when you are in trouble is to say this, and he might even mean it, but just "trying harder" is meaningless when he probably doesn't know when or how to do that. In fact you say you can hear him winding up his siblings - that is proof it's already not working, it probably hasn't even occurred to him that it's a situation where he should be putting thought before action (and even if it did it would be difficult for him to actually do that.) You can't possibly pre-empt every single situation where he might do something stupid and warn him to avoid that - so he probably wouldn't behave the same in that exact situation, but it essentially doesn't matter because he will end up with another opportunity to do something impulsive and the chances are he will do it. You are absolutely right to take the gun away, but (as I think you know) it's not going to solve the next problem (whatever that might be.) With ADHD the brain level of dopamine is constantly low so essentially they are like an addict and the next hit (approval from friends, looking cool, adrenaline rush, instant "achievement" feedback e.g. video games) is prioritised over absolutely anything else.

Family therapy and ADHD specific parenting all sound great. Really good things to be doing, and it does take time to learn new ways so be patient with yourselves as well. The only thing I'd suggest in conjunction with this is to learn as much as you can about how ADHD works, (and share this with him, if he will listen to you) which is why I shared the links above. Hopefully it helps. The teen years will be a rollercoaster, it's mainly about trying to keep him in the cart! And it will calm down once he has gone through puberty although I appreciate that is a daunting amount of time away.

It might be that the medication needs adjusting, possibly relating to the hormone changes in puberty. Is he generally happy to take it? It might be that closer supervision is needed in general. Russell Barkley for example suggests treating them as a child 2/3 their age in terms of supervision and how much leeway you give them.

Thank you very much for taking the time to signpost this for me. Will watch with DH later when dinner and homework is done.

@Politics4me

OP I am continuing the points I started last night because this has very serious potentials. A Registered Gun Club is required to filter new applications for membership. There are regular meetings with Police. I doubt an older person with those meds would be allowed any kind of permit. Your 12 year old is only just under control. You say you can hear him annoying his siblings. Do you really allow him to Vape do you shrug this off? He wants access to guns, which you agreed to before this attack on another child. Does this interest come from you or family? Or has he conjured it up by himself. If it is him alone then he might be developing a very unhealthy interest. He bought the BB because that is all he could get. Watch out for catapults and crossbows as well. You really do have a lot on your plate. Can the other children go and stay with relatives they know? To give them a little break. Your Family group + MIL must be priority. You can get rid of the dog. Everything else is low on the list. You need help from serious professionals. Can a residential placing be arranged? It would take pressure off you all. I do have experience of mental health in a younger relative who had to go into residential care, it did work well. She learned more and she relaxed because she wasn't always trying to keep up with ordinary people. You have my thoughts and prayers.

Do I allow him to vape?

No, P4me, I don't allow my 12 year old to vape.

My daughter refused all therapy when she was diagnosed, and has continued to refuse for the last 2 years.

In the end, I decided to work with a psychotherapist on 'parent work' to help me understand my child better, and be kinder to myself when I was trying to handle her very challenging behaviours.

It made a massive difference to me. To have some time to myself to explore my emotions, to rage, to cry, to despair, to develop coping strategies, and, increasingly, to celebrate when something, however tiny, had gone well.

It was expensive because she was a psychotherapist, not a counsellor, but definitely worth it.

Hello all,

I spoke with the early intervention team today - the lady we dealt with had some really good input for us, I'll take it away. She also pointed me in the right direction for more help, and was able to tell me what the school should be doing.

She said she has no concerns and it wouldn't be taken any further at their end. The police still have to talk to us but she wasn't worried - she made me feel much better, saying we were clearly doing all the right things and they were only there to help.

She did say moving schools wouldn't be something she could advise and I agree. We'll see how he gets on after his suspension - and his chat with the police too. We'll have to wait and see if they charge him...

Thank you again for everyone's time.

How are you all?

Omg just lost a huge reply!

Annoying, long story short we're ok.
Back to school
Tomorrow and counselling next week. He's been great being with me these last few days. But he is amazing 1 on 1. My pupil says he's so lucky, lots of law students would pay for his experience!
He's been working for me, filing and stuff like that - my Head of Chambers heard him delaying the alphabet under his breath and printed off the alphabet for him on a page with big letters, he's a silk (a QC)! So lovely.

I have taken a lot from SS, esp when how to punish (give him jobs) so am on that.

We'll see what happens with the police and I'll take advice from there I suppose (at least in my line of work I have access to experts in youth offenders 🙄). That's my worry now, and how he gets on at school. I think I'm going to drop him off every morning now, and give him a little pep talk so he remembers to start the day well...

Thank you for asking x

You sound like such a lovely caring mum and I’m sure your son will be fine -
My brother was very similar at his age and caused my parents no end of stress and worry but as a man he’s great!

@CovidConfused123

You sound like such a lovely caring mum and I’m sure your son will be fine - My brother was very similar at his age and caused my parents no end of stress and worry but as a man he’s great!

It helps to head that others have managed to make it through! Xx