lack of empathy or fear of consequences - horrible bad behaviour

[Delfinn12345]

Hi All,
I have a SD who is 9, I've been with her father for 5 years and we have 2 children together. The SD lives with us, and her mother is a nightmare and will do anything to be awkward even if it impacts her daughter, who she drops like a hot stone when she cant be bothered with her.
Everything was fine, even when our first child was born, but when SD's mother split from her BF at the time SD changed overnight into this frankly awful child, who doesn't care for anyone in our family.
I've left the room before for 2 minutes to put something in another room and returned to find my toddler grey choking on something, and the SD just calmly watching from a meter away, who when the "entertainment" was over just turned and walked away - never asking if the little one was okay.
She will go out of her way to steal, lie, bully, damage things, ignore you.
She has reduced her father to tears before but just watched without a care in the world until he snapped and shouted at her - then it was the tear act of woe is me, I'm being yelled at.
We've tried every reward or punishment system out there and stuck to each one for weeks and she just doesn't care.
We always say if you do A, then B will happen and consistently follow through, but she will moan you do B, but then do A straight away again.
Nothing works - both myself and her Dad now look forward to the weekends where she isn't there.
Her behavior has been like this since 2019, and I'm dreading her hitting being a teenager. It's so bad i've even discussed my partner moving out as her shocking behavior is not fair on the little ones. The youngest has recently been rushed to hospital, and no, she hasn't asked once if he's okay (he is). I'm at my wits end.
I know I sound really uncaring, but for 3 years hardly a day has gone by where she hasn't deliberately gone out of her way to ruin everyone else's day. (NB she knows if she behaved she would be included in family things, but that bad behavior results in her not getting them).
She seems to think she shouldn't be punished for lying, stealing, bullying, destroying things - and if she is, then she'll punish us for daring to do something to her.
Sorry this is a bit rambly any suggestions or constructive negatives greatly received

Ignore last line!

Sorry, x-post - she jumped on a chair and damaged the bar. In the light of all that’s going on, I would get briefly cross with her, remove some pocket money towards it, then move on to the much bigger picture of repairing relations between you.

She's scared. She lost a father figure and it's probably made her realise she could lose you too. She possibly trying to push you away to protect herself. Stop with the punishments and reward any decent behaviour with a 1-1 activity with you. Carve time out for her away from the others. She's like a wounded animal lashing out in pain and fear, right now she needs unconditional love. Yes protect the younger ones but don't punish for now.

The mothers boyfriend was a very positive influence, he was everything you could hope for. Took her places, took her to work sometimes (plumber) gave her her own toy tool kit so she could join in. Baked etc seemed to genuinely enjoy spending time with her. She was always full of stories of what she and him had been up to (her mother absent from the stories - usually because she wasn't there)

Snapping the chair bar doesn’t sound that bad by the way, a normal childhood accident - though I get it may be just one example of many?

@Delfinn12345

The mothers boyfriend was a very positive influence, he was everything you could hope for. Took her places, took her to work sometimes (plumber) gave her her own toy tool kit so she could join in. Baked etc seemed to genuinely enjoy spending time with her. She was always full of stories of what she and him had been up to (her mother absent from the stories - usually because she wasn't there)

So does she not get that from her dad??

I add we've specifically changed her school to one near home. Her dad doesnt drive (he is learning) but now she is at the new school he can walk to pick her up and spend a few hours one-to-one before i get in with the little ones. He finishes work just before school finishes.

You say she has food issues? What are these?
There are some flags - not responding to traditional parenting methods, need for control etc could indicate ASD. Girls are very hard to diagnose and mask well. It's also common for problems to be worse at home. Coke bottle effect.
My autistic son will appear to literally ignore me sometimes, doesn't respond to praise well, is very demand avoidant. Generally we rub along ok as I'm not holding him to the same standards as other neurotypical children his age so he isn't under as much pressure. He has a good vocabulary and will make eye contact with me and has a PDA profile so he isn't necessarily an obviously autistic child to others.
Try reducing demands, indirect praise, read up on autism in girls and see if it fits. I do believe children (mostly)do well when they can. I feel sorry for her as obviously there's a lot going on at home and she is struggling.

@Delfinn12345

I add we've specifically changed her school to one near home. Her dad doesnt drive (he is learning) but now she is at the new school he can walk to pick her up and spend a few hours one-to-one before i get in with the little ones. He finishes work just before school finishes.

Great but that one to one should be active, not passive. He doesn’t just take her home and go on his laptop, does he? Does he chat to her, play with her, tell her jokes, take her out for a hot chocolate, teach her a card game?

@Coronawireless yes she does, but not when she is at her mothers. Her and her Dads thing is making dioramas, with all the papermache and trees and stuff, or looking after the pond. We've given her some of her own fish and a small pond and they do that stuff together

And hug her and tell her he loves her??

the hugging and stuff goes without saying.

Do you spend time with her too? You may have got into a mindset of edging her away because she’s so difficult to be around.

You say hugging “and stuff”.
It’s not “and stuff” - it’s telling her she is loved, which she needs to hear.

@Darklamps she obsesses over food, she's eaten 1/4 bottle of vitamins before because they tasted nice. If you don't portion control her she will eat twice what an adult portion is without blinking. She has crawled past the baby monitor to stuff her face with selection boxes being stored out the way before.
But it isn't hunger as if it isn't in front of her, or she doesn't know its there she wont bother - but if she knows something is in the house its 24/7 nagging.
Conversations with her mum are always about food, its sad

That's so sad. It does sound like abandonment issues. Sounds like she was really bonded to him.

You rewards and punishments are far too extreme, she has switched off to caring because that is a survival strategy so she can't be hurt and so none of it will work. I would imagine her self esteem is rock bottom and isolating her by making her eat alone or not allowing her on trips are just very, very damaging and may be what has made her switch off (trying to bribe her to behave with big ticket items is also a terrible idea).

Everything you say it comes across that you don't like her and that is also a huge problem, it would be better if you and her dad split up if that is the case, not for your kids but for her.

Her behaviour sounds destructive and defiant, she won't do anything she is asked, needs to control situations and lacks empathy. What was her life like as a baby? Was she well looked after and cared for? It does sound like possible attachment disorder, but it's a pretty serious diagnosis and difficult to treat needing specialist help IME.

I worked with a child with that diagnosis (parents had been on drugs when she was a baby) and she needed to control every situation. If she didn't feel in control she could be very, very nasty, (ie break other children's things, scratch and hurt them) but if she was in control she could be lovely. I found that if I suggested things we could do rather than tell her what to do and then allow her to tell me that we were going to do the things I'd suggested (as though they were her idea) we could work together quite well. She left though as she required specialist help.

SD would have had to have been neglected to some extent as a baby though perhaps through MH issues, drug or alcohol issues, PND etc. Might be worth considering, otherwise there may be some other diagnosis that fits such as ODD or ASD. Worth really thinking about what could be at the root of her behaviour because there will be something.

Haven’t read the whole thread but this sounds like attachment disorder. Traumatised children like this are miserable but also very difficult to live with.
Join the fb group Attachment Disorders UK where very kind, knowledgeable people can give you advice. Also look at PACE parenting. It stands for playfulness, acceptance, curiosity and empathy. Good luck.

This little girl really needs some help and support now. It is quite possible there are underlying sen issues. She could have ptsd from the split. Abandonment issues. The list is endless.

You said the ex step dad baked with her. Have you done activities like this? Could you? With her step siblings? Are any of her interactions with her siblings positive. Do you let her be involved??

Please try and see this from her point of view, and most importantly try what you would do for your own children. Being a part of a blended family can feel so isolating for both the child/children in question and the step parent!

@Wtfdoipick

She's scared. She lost a father figure and it's probably made her realise she could lose you too. She possibly trying to push you away to protect herself. Stop with the punishments and reward any decent behaviour with a 1-1 activity with you. Carve time out for her away from the others. She's like a wounded animal lashing out in pain and fear, right now she needs unconditional love. Yes protect the younger ones but don't punish for now.

This, and there are numerous other great posts here. All behaviour is communication, and this little girl is communicating like mad. You've been very prickly, OP, at any posts that are critical of you in any way. Some of your other posts also sound a bit like you're hoping for people to tell you how great you are 'raising her as your own' (which really, really doesn't chime with your reference to her as 'the SD'), how awful her behaviour is and how you should be putting your foot down. The fantasies about giving her virtually no Christmas presents are a little disturbing tbh. Clearly life has been very difficult in your house and you'd probably say you're venting here - but if you, an adult, need to vent, how much more does a child with precisely zero control over her life and distressing experiences of rejection (and I'm afraid I also include you in that, up to a point) and loss need to vent, and how much likelier is she to use maladaptive methods to do so?

It's also a bit strange for you to say the mother's boyfriend was 'everything you could hope for'. I can't help hearing an edge of relief in that - that he took on the parenting so you didn't have to?

I don't want to be unkind - it's just that this child is obviously suffering and there's a lot of defensiveness/reluctance to consider everyone's role in this situation in your posts.

Could the food thing be possibly a sensory thing- sensory seeking?
Does she have any other 'quirks'? Issues with clothes or sounds?
From what you've said I'd say she is more than likely neurodivergent. I'd start reading up. She needs to be understood.
If she is then you may need to adapt your parenting style/ methods. It's easier once you do though.
Good luck OP.

*so you didn't have to - I mean you and your husband, obv, not just you.

And I agree with those saying there is likely some form of attachment disorder and/or neurodiversity here.

I don't think you are awful.

I do think the punishments are too big. They aren't working. But I don't think that's because you are awful. Just unsure what to do.

I would guess there's some sort of Neurodiversity and perhaps something else.

At a young age she has had so much emotional turmoil, she may have been able to disconnect herself. I did the same. I did care and I I feel things. I just couldn't bring myself to show it, because everyone I loved left, excluded me or hurt me. So I didn't. Still don't to some degree.

I know it's really really hard for you all. But excluding her from family BBQs and days our while you all go, isn't teaching her consequences. It's teaching her you and your dh exclude her too.

I get its a consquence of her behaviour. But she isn't connecting that. So it's not having the desired impact.

The refuses to take part with friends unless she is in control is a big sign of trauma too.

I am really sorry you are having such a tough time.

Why do you refer to her as the SD, and not my SD ?
Her whole life sounds such a mess, l think she is feeling very insecure, she doesnt really fit anywhere.
It would probably be easier on everyone if you did move out and lived seperately for a while, no amount of counseling will make this work, you can then focus solely on your own kids and your partner can parent his daughter.