Vaccination - do you or don't you?

[lisalisa]

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jnbsmum - I think you make a very good point- you are told basically that if you don't vaccinate your child they will die. There is very much that suggestion given. That's why it took something truly awful to happen to ds1 before I even began to question my decision to vaccinate and before I began to really research them properly. It's also why I still sometimes wake at night cold with fear- it is a very strong message that is given. I get over the cold with fear bit by trying to imagine myself taking ds2 to the clinic and getting him done and that scares me even more!

Have any of you parents who chose not to vaccinate their children taken them to i.e. friend's houses, when their kids had a childhood disease, as, if they haven't had i.e. mumps or measles by puberty, those diseases could be very dangerous?

Jimjams can i ask- what is sleeping sickness?

Is the case of not accepting unvaccinated children in Nurseries, a case of covering their own backs?
Still don't understand the logic of it though all the same, like you say vaccinated children can still get the diseases.

Mistressmary i think it must be for that reason only. There is no other explanation.

Isn't that discrimination though?

I haven't worked in nurserys for about 2 yrs now so it may have changed. I found it only the case in small new private nurserys. I suppose it is discrimination but i'm afraid thats something that goes on everyday.
There is no reason why a child should not be allowed to go to a nursery because it hasn't been vacinated. I think if i come across it again i will talk with the manager and ask them why they have that policy.

jnbsmum- its not around anymore. it was a form of encaphalitis I think- and it seemed to follow in the wake of the flu epidemic. Oliver sachs worote about in his book Awakenings, although I haven't read it (only seen the film). It seemed to attack people who then literally fell asleep (I think it was often fatal as well). IIRC they found out decades later that these patients could be given dopamine- and they literally came awake, but the good effect didn't last. I think there must still be some people alive with it- but they will have spent almost thier entire lives in hospital. But it came and went. I'll google later and see if I can find some more- very interesting although of course utterly tragic for anyone affected by it.

Veggie- there is a list somewhere where you can register an interest and be told if there'a sick child you can visit for a tea party. I haven't done it- might do when the kids are a little older (although I would want to be wary with ds1 to be honest). That's a problem with the currently MMR schedule- it can wear off in teen years/early adulthood. Think they will have to introduce a booster at some stage.

some info about sleeping sickness. Interesting if not exactly relevant to this discussion

Just curious, Jimjams and Lisalisa, have you given your kids single jabs, or none at all.

DD has gone for single MMR jabs. She had everything up until then because I never thought to question it. Now, pregnant again, I'm wondering if I might question this 5 in 1 jab. HAven't really looked into it yet. Just wondering what you guys have done.

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I sort of think it's more to do with the Polio element really?
Making it inactive, cos it safer and not being able to mix this type with thiomersal (mercury)?
However using the mercury as the main safety aspect of it? Is this right?

Yes, I agree. What puzzles me is that when I took DD for her jab, I remember that it was 2 jabs, plus the polio in the mouth. The nurse told me that the two jabs were supposed to go in separate legs. She didn't know exactly why, but the were to be kept separate, that is not stuck in the same leg. Then of course when the poor thing screamed that was when they dropped the polio in the mouth. Anyway, so now they are all in one jab. So, why did that nurse put themin separate legs, and now it's okay to mix it all up together...

I'm no medical expert, and I don't know the answer. But, something about this smells a bit fishy...

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The change in jabs is quite simple. For years people have been saying that giving thimerosil (a neurotoxin) to babies isn't sensible- but the govt has said its safe (other countries have been phasing thimerosil out or got rid of it ages ago). Then in June a paper was published (email me for a copy) showing that if you give certain strains of mice- those prone to autoimmune conditions- thimeorsil then they become autistic. Obviously the govt couldn't then say "oph whoops sorry guys we've just poisoned your kids" but they also couldn't carry on giving thimerosil as even the WHO was recommending its removal. So they threw in the whole polio thing as well as a red herring. The only cases of paralytici polio in the UK in thelast decade or so have come from the jab- so probbaly a good idea to get rid of it- but numbers affected are very small- far smaller than the number affected by thimerosil. Thimerosil is still only a "theoretical risk" according to our govt. Asides from the columbia paper there is other evidence for its damaging effect.

Uwila ds1 had DTP hib, men C and single measles- primary course. He hasn't had any boosters and won't be having any more. DS2 hasn't had anything- will possibly give him tetanus if a thimerosil free single version became available, but not available so haven't thought about it too much yet. DS3 wil be the same as ds2

far more articulate JimJams. Thanks.

missed off polio- ds1 had that. Basically he had everything until he got to 18 months- and since then hasn't had anything.

I was a bit ranting though MistressMary. It did make me really cross initially to be honest. Initially I heard that because of the Columbia paper they were removing thimerosil from vax- and it was like "hey wow someone has recognised what happened to ds1", and then they wheeled robot after robot out of the dept of health to tell us it was nothing to do with thimerosil which was still perfectly safe and instead had everything to do with oral polio vaccine. I was initially gutted tbh- how could they play us to be such fools- surely my son deserved some official recognition for paying a very high price for mercury being in vaccinations (and I mean recognition- not compensation- although some NHS speech therapy would be nice as well)? Especially as they must have known that this was a cover up. But now to be honest I don't care. I realise that we won't get anything out of them. And anyway what difference will it make. DS1 is still well and truly stuffed so we just have to get on with it. Otherwise I could end up very bitter and twisted and that doesn't do anyone any good (least of all me or ds1).

Teribble thought that but unfortunately I don't think you are wrong.

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lisalisa, if a person, adult or child, turns up at A+E with a dirty wound, such as a dog bite, or a laceration sustained in a farmyard, and does not have up to date anti-tetanus cover , they are given gamma globulin, which is an injection of tetanus antibodies. This mops up any tetanus bugs that may be lurking. It is then recommended that a tetanus booster is given sometime soon thereafter.

I don't know if a single tetanus vaccine would be available to an under 10 in this instance.

HTH

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