what do you think of people that have their lo's christened when they are not reallt religous?

[pregnantbabyelephant]

good excuse for a party ? nice to introduce the baby to the extended family ?
better to have a naming service? has anyone actually done this ?

better saved for those that do go to church on a regular basis ?
or ok for those that dont go to church but are just belivers?

is it something people do to please the older people in the families like the gp's?

Good grief, Jenny! Don't you see that many people who don't actively practice religion still find the traditionalism of a church ceremony a rewarding and uplifting experience?

Your language is a bit extreme. Are you calling me unprincipled for my decision? Are you setting yourself above me on some moral high ground?

Nettee, you explained far better than me what I was trying to say!

I faced this dilemma with my first son. We weren't regular churchgoers. We got married in a church. I have been christened and confirmed. I went to church reasonably regularly growing up, but it was always because that was what you did, rather than because any of us were devout believers.

So when it came time to have our son christened, I spoke to my father about it saying that I felt hypocritical doing it when I wasn't convinced that I believed. He set me up with a meeting with his priest.

My husband and I had a long chat with him. We both explained that while we believed in living according to christian values, we had a hard time believing fully and we don't attend church regularly.

The overwhelming advice we got from the priest was to christen our children. He gave us a very stern lecture on how we need to become better christians but regardless, he felt it was better for us to christen our children that not.

So we did. And the first time round I felt like a bit of hypocrite. The second time round, I felt far, far more comfortable. We've also started to go to chuch more regularly - although we still don't go often. And I also read them bible stories, we say prayers and sing carols throughout the year.

I still don't feel as though I'm 100% convinced by it all, but I know that when I go to church, I come out and want to be a better person. And I want to offer my children that option too.

We did however make a point of not choosing Godparents who actively stated that they don't believe in God - because that just seemed plain wrong.

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my friend went to a naming ceremony and the Mum's speech consisted entirely of reasons why she wasn't having them christened

Hi Nettee - I've found your post very encouraging - great to read your reasons for choosing baptism. I do hope you have a lovely day with dd ( and get some good presents )

This is a really personal and private issue -- I don't think parents' choices should be sneered at by those who claim to 'know' what they believe.

My dh and I had a really hard time deciding whether or not to do this and in the end we decided to go ahead for the following reasons:

1. To me , it is a beautiful, deeply symbolic ritual, irrespective of religious connotations

1. It made his parents happy

1. It was a lovely day (both times)

oh, and number 4. My own godparents have been very influential in my life, and I made a point of choosing (honouring) people that I know will have a life-long bond with our sons.

Doodle, so were you brought up as a Catholic? And keeping your options open so to speak?

Or were your dc baptised purely to get into a faith school?

NorthernLurker I agree with lots of the things you have said.

We are Christians and attend a C of E church, but previously were part of a church that didn't baptise babies or young children. Anyway, when we had dd1 we thought a lot about this and we had a "dedication." We booked a room and a Christian friend officiated. Basically we were saying that we are Christians and we wanted to acknowledge that, and that we would bring up our child in the faith. (sorry I probably haven't explained this at all well).

The Anglican church does actually do an alternative to Christening (it's a bit like doing a blessing rather than a baptism) - can't remember the right term for it, but I don't know anyone who has chosen this. We got the words for this type of service off the CofE website and based our little service upon that. When our dds are older they will chose to be (or not) be baptised.

I went to Sunday School when I was younger and my Dad was a Church elder. I got married in the church (United Reformed) for family/nostalgia reasons but also because I feel Christian but am not a churchgoer. DH is not religious.

The URC has a bessing ceremony for people who want their child to be welcomed into the family of the church but do not want to 'turn to god' or 'renounce the devil' or promise to bring the child up to be a Christian. I would have had difficulty saying that and know that my DH and DS1's godparents would not have meant a word of it.

It's a really gentle, lovely service where the minister asks God to recognise the child and asks the congregation to welcome him/her into the 'family of God'. Parents and godparents don't have to promise to do anything other than love and cherish the child and do all they can for it. The child is carried round the whole congregation by the minister and at the end receives a bible and a certificate.

I would have done the same for DS2 but at the time my Dad was ill and subsequently passed away and to be honest it just would feel wrong without him there.

That sounds lovely - I do wish the C of E service contained something about loving and supporting the child

For me, the ceremony of marriage and the naming of my children is all about my husband, my friends and family and the love and the support we are going to give to each other over the course our lives. I've been to wedding service and christening have been about 'turning to christ' 'devoting yourself to god' etc. To me that's not what it is about that's why we didn't go down that route. I do get angry when I see people who get married in a church 'because it's traditional' I think it's insulting to those who have faith and I chose to start my wedded life and the lives of my children on a truthful footing with my family and the people I love around me, not a congretation of strangers.

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I wouldn't condemn anyone who has a Christening or church wedding, but who doesn't have religious belief. On the other hand, I don't really understand it. We had a civil ceremony and didn't have DD christened because we would have felt hypocritical. The church weddings that I've been to have had a very pronounced religious aspect and I wouldn't have felt comfortable.
Horses for courses.

Somebody asked had anyone held a Humanist ceremony- yes we did, for ds3. there are a few threads about Humanist ceremonies on MN as well. After ds1 was dx'd with Sn and ds3 started to show symptoms 9they ar eboth asd) I couodn't believe ofr a while and so we didnt have ds3 baptised (at the time, will be soon).

We hels a Humanist ceremony in the garden, with a part afterwrards and it ws very nice, the Celebrant was very experienced and it meant as much to us at that time as a Baptism- and as my family are Atheist in the main, thre were no issues there either. Indeed, a few poeple asked for the ce,ebrants details after to pass on (BHA put us in tuch with him).

If you haven't got the religious meaning behind the ceremony, I think a Humanist alternative does very well.

It's no skin off my nose if people do it. I don't feel insulted by it at all.

I do get a bit when people start questioning the need for, for example, a Catholic godparent for a Catholic baptism.

Cargirl, glad someone said it!

I think the difference between a wedding or funeral and a "christening" is that "christenings" aren't essential so people are making a religious statement they don't need to make about a religion they don't believe in. A wedding or funeral is essential (ok you don't have to get married, but people decide they do) and the service, while incorporating God isn't making any religious statements or religious promises that a person can't keep.

I am a Christian, the product of parents who are the children of ministers. I go to Church most Sundays, I don't like missing the service, but it's not always avoidable. I don't believe in christening, it is NOT Biblical, in fact I believe it is AGAINST what is written in the Bible!

It doesn't make a child a Christian to christen them, that is a decision a person can only make for themself. It doesn'tsecure them a place in Heaven. Jesus said that Heaven is made for children and we must be like them to get there. I don'tbelieve that God would deny a child a place because they are too young to make a decision for themself. Am I saying thatlightly? No. My own daughter was taken there at three hours old.

I believe in the Biblical practice which we know as Dedication. We take our children to Church and we thank God for giving him or her to us and we make promises to bring our child up right, the Church make promises to support us. We don't do Godparents, although some people choose to which we did as a compromise because he has grown up in a church that did do christening. We ask that those people take a special interest in the child they have been asked to sponsor, I guess they become part of the extended family and should be like uncles and aunts, Tink's godfathers are wonderful and definately uncles to her, they are able to give her more time than her godmothers as one lives the other side of the city and has a new baby of her own and the other, well lets not say anything.

My first daughter was Dedicated by my mum, she was too early to survive and we refused a minister as we don't believe we needone, we have Jesus and we can come to Him ourselves. Mum asked if she could Dedicate Lily-Hope and I gratefully said yes.She lifted Lily-Hope's hand from her chest and asked Him to take her hand and take her to Heaven and look after her for us,she then lowered Lily-Hope's hand to her chest and felt her chest raise for the last time. That Dedication was the most beautiful thing I have ever witnessed and no other Dedication I have seen has ever had the same power, we felt the presence of God in that delivery room.

When Tink is old enough (most ministers I know say 13 and I argued for years with my Grandad over this!), has accepted Jesus into her life and makes the decision herself, she will be baptized in accordance to what the Bible teaches. She will declare her faith in front of her friends, family and Church, then she will enter a pool and will be totally emmersed in water. My grandad describes baptism as a funeral that we bury the old life and ways when we go under and when we emerge we emerge a new man (man as in human).

I believe that by christening babies we give people a false sense of security, that they are "Saved" and going to Heaven. When the Bible says this is not true. Because of this false sense of security they are not being obedient to the Word and giving their life the Jesus or being baptised. Satan doesn't need to do any work, it's being done for him unwittingly by people who have been told they are doing the "Christian" thing for them.

I'm not offended by non-religous people christening their children. I'm offended by anyone christening their children.

PS Kerala, the churches I've been to haven't been draughty. They have nice seats, double glazing and central heating.

PPS The Registry Office do a service which has all the offical meanings that a christening does but like a RO wedding, it is none religious.

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I had both my dd's christened and got married in a church. Before I had the kids I didnt really go to church apart from the normal weddings funerals etc, but I do class myself as a christian and like to follow the beliefs of the christian faith.

However, now my girls are older I do go to church more often, Harvest Festival, Rememberance Sunday and a few family services at the church. So I like to think that I wasnt a church goer but am now bringing my children up in the christian faith. If they get to an age where they are not interested I'll stop but at least they have experienced it.

I think there are two reasons for a Christening:

1. Every cuture almost ahs a welcoming ceremony of some kind; at past point this has been anrrowed in our Culture to be a Christening ceremony, mainly I rpesume because of the influence of the Church and the demonisation of all other forms of faith in the middle ages and after. Therefore, that Christening has been culturally accepted as fulfillingt hat criteria in our community. oher options are aailble, but not all poeple want to utilise tham as they are so Atheist generally- an Atheist ceremony generally deliberately excludes words that ahve religious origins, which would I rpesume upset a Christian.

1. As someone who was never Christened I always felt out of palce in the Church and was too shy to ask for baprism at a later date- obviously religious aprents would negate that but all chidlren should be welcome in their Church. I thought I was porbably alone in feeling like that, but no- at least two of my classmates voived the same feelings in a class discussion recently.

Actually I can think of two more reasons sorry-

1. On a purely rpacticallevel, many CofE schools that are over subscribed do have Christening as a criteria in their intake; it would be only natural for a Christian to want their child to attend such a school, and as places are very often fought after, want to fulfil such criteria.

1. Just because something is not Biblical it is often celebrated in our culture, so we celebrate birthdays, for example. Jehovah's Witnesses are an exception of course.

I doubt very much that DS3 will ever be confirmed as he simply is unlikely to have the mental capacity to understand. I do believe that God will admit him to heaven automatically based on a complete inability to determine and therefore commit deliberate sin, or nastiness or lack of love or however you wish to define it (I tend to teach faith to my boys in terms of the Jesus commandment rather than sin etc). I don't want him to have less special occasions etc in his life though as a result of that disability, less chances for the family to celebrate and be joyous about him- because having ds3 is a true blessing. I want to be able to throw a party to say he's here- he's mine and I love him, and I want the official bits to be conducted in a pace I associate with my faith.

Doodledootoo: when people do something in the name of my faith and Church they do it on my behalf and that of any Christian. I am offended that people are doing something so anti-Christian and doing it on my behalf. As I said, christening is so wrong from a Biblical sense that it hurts my heart when a child has it done to them and I can only hope and pray that one day they will realise what was done to them.

Peachy: 1. The Bible offers a service for us, Dedication - just like Jesus was. Christening is a morbid service made by people who took The Word to far and thought that unbaptised people didn't go to Heaven and as most people didn't get to be old enough to be baptised by choice, they did it to children.

1. You shouldn't be made to feel out of place in Church for not being christened and if you were/are you were/are in the wrong place. There are plenty of churches who will baptise an adult and only adults! Don't feel uncomfortable about seeking this out if you feel that you want to be baptised. I'd happily talk to you about it seperately if you want to know more and I can help find somewhere that would do it.

1. It's so wrong of them I can't express it! Jesus said a Dr comes to heal the sick and they aren't doing it by being so exclusive. Parents shouldn't have to be pushed into something because they want to send their child to a good school. Personally I don't want my child/ren going to a Christian school. I want them to experience life - Jesus didn't seperate Himself.

1. Birthdays aren't a religious celebration and never proclaim to be. Celebrating them or not doesn't make a statement about our faith or lack of, it is not making statements on behalf of someone else. I can not think of a single "Christian" practice that I do that isn't Biblical. The Bible doesn't say Jesus went to the toilet, doesn't mean He didn't! It just doesn't always talk about the mundane everyday life.

I'd like to add to 4. Birthday's don't interfere with obedience. They don't stop a person from making a decision for themself either to give their life to Jesus or to be baptised.

Agree with Nettee

I am offended by christians who would deny people the chance to marry in church if they want to and to have their children christened in church - whether or not they are regular church goers themselves. The church should not be elitist.