What is wrong with our kids these days?

[2021ismyyear]

So I live near a town that has a recent alarming number of teenage suicides. Mostly girls but there have been boys too. There seems to be a huge mental health crisis brewing. More and more are needing professional help. Schools are at a loss what to do. Parents are angry.

Parents are blaming social media, the schools, the teachers, the government.

One parent said that they had to remove their kids phone as there is peer pressure on social media with regards to suicide, becoming lgbtq, and going on anti depressants.

It’s just exploded here. Young people have lost it! I remember a few in my year with mental health issues (eating disorders, those that were abused etc) but it seems every teen has an issue at the moment. So severe in cases, that they are killing themselves.

What is this all about? How can we stop this?

The whole system needs a massive injection of money and staff
The problem is that there is an increase demand in the NHS to provide a service that ultimately should be available from parents, partners, friends, colleagues, even within ourselves. But we more than ever want to.ioen up to those closest to us but will do to strangers thinking they can offer more than our close relations when often they have nothing more to offer.

My best friend was my counsellor when growing up and vice versa. We shared everything, knew we wouldn't be judged no matter what, nor dumped. We listened and gave honest advice which we took even when it wasn't what we wanted to hear.

My kids said that no way wold they open up to that level even to their closest friends. They talk politics, education, society, sport and each other, but their deep feelings? Oh no, can't do that. It's sad.

@Honey12346

It's lockdown. What do you expect to happen when you take away everything that makes life worth living. A friend of a friends child hanged himself due to lockdown

It was happening prior to Feb 2020 I'm afraid.

@Roonerspismed

A lot of it is poor nutrition and a damaged microbiome.

Nutrition has been poorer than it is now (Victorian poverty, post-war rationing, 1970/80s fashion for processed food). Doesn't make sense to me as an explanation.

Kids need routine, rules, interests, a stable care giver, sleep, exercise and a good diet more than they need mental health support. I speak as someone who makes my living as a mental health professional.

As other people have said, suicide is infectious so as more people commit suicide , the number of people who will attempt it grows exponentially. I am a counsellor and psychotherapist and I worked for an agency specialising in the care of teenagers and young adults and one of the things that was drummed into us at every CPD session is that the single most powerful indicator of whether suicidal thoughts were likely to be followed by suicide attempts was the presence of a successful suicide of a close relationship or friend.

At a another agency I worked with a woman whose uncle, aunt, brother and ex-partner had all taken their own lives by hanging. In her world suicide was no longer a taboo but a likely course of action.

@Mousetown You know that’s not what they meant

There is some research that suggests that the physical changes of puberty into the years after does raise the risks of mental ill health (and some as well for later in life changes too, as teenagers come after middle-age people as a risk factor in some of the data I've read). I don't think it's a "kids these day" thing as much as which group is most likely to be discussed and turned into a news story now that ignores most of the long history of mental health trends.

As many suicide prevention charities discuss and pp said, making it any one thing is unhelpful though we can see patterns and factors that may play a role, but each part is one part of an interconnecting complicated mix.

Having been a child with suicidal ideation from the age of 9, I agree with pp that sticking a label on without also supporting someone to develop understanding and skills for it is a major issue. I think this contributes to catastrophizing and feeling helpless as well as to some pretty nasty bullying. I find it really annoying there is so much talk the talk about 'getting help' and not enough walking the walk in ensuring good services are available and understanding that mental health needs more than 'getting that checked out' (which is apparently an insult going around my DDs' school for anyone who has a strong emotional reaction to anything).

I think what was very helpful for me was group therapy where I could both practice skills with other children under the guidance of a professional (and not under the eye of my parents or teachers) and having those professionals who could both normalize some of my emotions as well as give me coping skills for what was unhealthy and/or anti-social. There are skills I learned at 11 that I still use now.

Honestly, I think there needs to better emotional skill development in what can be done in daily life rather than the worksheets going on I've seen about 'resilience mindset' or awareness of care that in many areas isn't actually there. I think Dr Guy Winch's Emotional First Aid concept is very useful in keeping in mind skills that can be discussed and practiced for what he calls 'emotional injuries'.

I do wonder if this “non conforming” conformity is harder to manage for many than just outright old fashioned conformity.

@GoWalkabout

Kids need routine, rules, interests, a stable care giver, sleep, exercise and a good diet more than they need mental health support. I speak as someone who makes my living as a mental health professional.

I say routine and a stable care giver constitute mental health support in themselves.

@elliejjtiny

I wish I knew the answer to this. My 13 year old attempted suicide this year. Camhs said it happens a lot and discharged him after 1 meeting and a phone call.

Bloomin heck I’m so sorry How disgraceful I don’t think I’ve heard anything positive about camhs

I mean, we have gone badly wrong and need to create better childhoods and proper community. Mental health care can help and is needed with serious mental illness like depression, eating disorder, OCD. We should not be tolerating our Accident and Emergency departments regularly seeing victims of self harm without addressing these root causes.

The relentless positivity movement has pathologised normal, healthy downbeat emotions such as sadness, disappointment, regret, loss, loneliness, rejection and scooped them up into 'depression' that needs to be treated. But there's no treatment available
This, this and this again.

There is indeed no treatment because it's normal emotions. Unpleasant but normal. We however are now bringing up kids to think that any unpleasant feelings are feelings to avoid at all cost, preferably by others making it all go away for us.

People are frustrated with their GP, their counsellor, psychologist because they just want them to come up with a solution when the only solution in most case is acceptance, patience and making our own changes to what we want changing.

@vivainsomnia

The whole system needs a massive injection of money and staff The problem is that there is an increase demand in the NHS to provide a service that ultimately should be available from parents, partners, friends, colleagues, even within ourselves. But we more than ever want to.ioen up to those closest to us but will do to strangers thinking they can offer more than our close relations when often they have nothing more to offer.

My best friend was my counsellor when growing up and vice versa. We shared everything, knew we wouldn't be judged no matter what, nor dumped. We listened and gave honest advice which we took even when it wasn't what we wanted to hear.

My kids said that no way wold they open up to that level even to their closest friends. They talk politics, education, society, sport and each other, but their deep feelings? Oh no, can't do that. It's sad.

I think in the past you had people who had more time to do this.

One of the things I see locally are parents who are well off but time poor and can 'buy everything' for their kids or at least think they can.

In reality the kid who was pretty much raised by the nanny and whose parents had a really bitter divorce was always screwed. What she needed was love and attention from her parents not being farmed off to someone else paid to look after here.

She actually thrived in situations where she was given attention.

She's one of a number of examples I can think of, and I don't think its purely parents who buy their kids everything. Its almost like stuff and things are a substitute for time and attention for children because parents are busy with work (or even phones and gaming themselves) and don't have time to talk.

I think one of the best things I've seen on this, is that kids in homes where people sit down at the table to eat dinner together seem to do better across the board. No tv, no phones just talking to each other.

I do look around and wonder just how many families have the time / ability / willingness to do this.

And thats before you address the issue of relationships with peers in a similiar vein.

I feel like these conversations always miss the very genuine trauma that many, many young people go through.

Perhaps it easier to blame TV / video games / social media / drugs (delete as appropriate to the generation)?

Having spent time in a psychiatric hospitals as an inpatient the one thing suicidal people and addicts have in common is trauma.

We know that a lot of children are sexually abused (I forget the figures, is it 1 in 10?)

We know that even more children witness domestic violence.

Then you add in those that lose a parent during childhood.

Those abandoned by at least one parent during childhood.

Those with other traumatic circumstances like neglect (physical or emotional), chaotic/addicted or alcoholic parents, gay children with homophobic parents, etc

I think if we actually did a survey of trauma those lucky enough not to have had as much would be shocked at how common it is.

When we think of our own DC we assume these can't/don't apply or we would know. But in reality parents often know very little about their children once in teenage years.

My DM would have sworn she knew everything about me but she knew very little in reality.

We also don't think of these things when we think of teenagers at our DC's schools but of course they absolutely do.

@vivainsomnia

The relentless positivity movement has pathologised normal, healthy downbeat emotions such as sadness, disappointment, regret, loss, loneliness, rejection and scooped them up into 'depression' that needs to be treated. But there's no treatment available This, this and this again.

There is indeed no treatment because it's normal emotions. Unpleasant but normal. We however are now bringing up kids to think that any unpleasant feelings are feelings to avoid at all cost, preferably by others making it all go away for us.

People are frustrated with their GP, their counsellor, psychologist because they just want them to come up with a solution when the only solution in most case is acceptance, patience and making our own changes to what we want changing.

Nods.

If you have a simple explanation, things can be 'fixed' easier and it almost erases the concept that sometimes life is just shit and actually thats ok (and makes you appreciate things better in the long run).

Its the desire and expectation that we should constantly be on a 'high' rather than the ebb and flow of life which is much more like a rollercoaster.

[quote AutoGroup]@DynamoKev I'm so sorry to hear that. I don't claim to be any kind of expert, but I do work with troubled teens and a lot of them do struggle with splitting their time and affection between two parents. Often they're telling both parents that they're happy with the arrangement and they themselves don't want to have to choose between the two, but they do find the arrangement very difficult, especially where they feel they can't talk about happy times they've had with the other parent for fear of upsetting someone.

I don't know if this is the reason for the suicides but it is a reason for some of the disruptive and self destructive behaviour we see. Although, as I said, lots of families and children manage this fine, I doubt whether there's any one factor in any of this.[/quote]
I think it’s awful when a child is forced to visit a parent who has harmed them
Having to stay overnight must be even more distressing
I know several children caught up in this fiasco
Family courts are a joke

I think there is a great deal of pressure applied to children these days, more so than ever.
Couple that with the incredibly intrusive nature of social media, and the ways in which 'the internet' can draw all of us in, let alone children and you're left with the potential for some serious mental health issues.

There's also the possibility that suicide is becoming normalised, as many children are exposed to it, and it's discussed more openly. An awful lot of children know of someone who's committed suicide (either amongst their peer group, a vague acquaintance, or possibly older acquaintance of the family).

The minds of children can be both highly resilient and incredibly vulnerable. The traditional protection offered by parents and teachers is massively undermined by the internet.

In reality the kid who was pretty much raised by the nanny and whose parents had a really bitter divorce was always screwed. What she needed was love and attention from her parents not being farmed off to someone else paid to look after here
That was me, and that's why friendships were everything to me. It's not so much time but freedom. I was allowed to go and meet my friends when I was 7. We spent all our holidays at one or the Uther's house, or the parc, later the swimming pool etc...

Now kids talk via their phone or computer because they are not allowed to see their friends so regularly, play dates have to be arranged and they are then not allowed to go out alone. Of course they are not going to share their feelings whilst playing in the Xbox

I also think the boundaries are muddled. There is a massive difference between a kid who attempts suicide to the children who complain of feeling depressed or anxious.

Some of the latter could progress to the thoughts of suicide but the vast majority just need a bit of support, love, being listen to and accept the reality of life not always being rosy.

The former though need serious help. Sadly, it's not easy to differentiate and cahms will be spending time with the latter group and not always enough with the former.

My dils children were ripped from their beautiful country home with dogs, horses, chickens and a mum wHo was devoted to them and their health and education by the family court she looked to to help her protect them from their abusive sperm donor
Three years they spent there.
She’s done wonders since she got them back but they still have huge problems and they all with the uncertainty that even if he doesn’t get them back, they might have to go and stay.
It’s shocking and terrifying when all a father wants to do is hurt his ex through the children

@FortunesFave

Weirdly I've seen the opposite. A good friend moved to Oz and misses the 'playing out' culture her DC had in the UK. In Oz everything is so spaced out, she has to drive them to everything (apart from the bloody gorgeous beach at the bottom of their road to be fair, but it's too treacherous to swim there). My DD11 is out all the time independently with her friends (UK).

Nutrition has been poorer than it is now (Victorian poverty, post-war rationing, 1970/80s fashion for processed food). Doesn't make sense to me as an explanation.

Maybe not so much the food (or lack-thereof) itself, but what is in it? Even when diets were poor, bread was made of flour, yeast and water, meals were vegetable based etc. Even compared to the 70s/80s ready meals, processed and ultra-processed food today has all sorts of things in it that have been developed and created in labs to taste/smell/look/feel like, say, a cake but don't contain any of the ingredients a cake would traditionally contain (eggs, butter, flour etc).

All of that artificial stuff has an effect on the microbiome, which just hasn't evolved for emulsifiers of this and stabilisers of the other.

[quote Mooda]@FortunesFave

Weirdly I've seen the opposite. A good friend moved to Oz and misses the 'playing out' culture her DC had in the UK. In Oz everything is so spaced out, she has to drive them to everything (apart from the bloody gorgeous beach at the bottom of their road to be fair, but it's too treacherous to swim there). My DD11 is out all the time independently with her friends (UK).[/quote]
A lot would of course depend on where people live...we lived in three different areas in Cheshire and it was all the same. When we got to Oz we moved to a small country town...everyone lets their kids play out and they can all get to one another's homes easily.

Is the LGBT+ thing a class thing, we're in a very working class, even lower working class deprived area and I'm not seeing that among my DC's friends or the teens I work with.

I'm in a similar area - it's seems to have started with the schools and then been taken up by the kids suibsquently. i think middle class areas may have been hit first - at least that's the impression MN given me but no it's not now a class thing.

As for the more general why - I don't know I expect a whole mix of things and I think we need the area properly researched and help properly funded.

Is the LGBT+ thing a class thing, we're in a very working class, even lower working class deprived area and I'm not seeing that among my DC's friends or the teens I work with.

Maybe...my DC attend a small private school and it's common there.