Struggling today with being a SAHM. Anyone want to join in a rant?

[MrsTittleMouse]

OK, so I know I'm being unreasonable, because I have a lovely DD who has gone from being a very hungry baby who wanted lots of interaction and never slept, to a 12 month old who sleeps through the night and "reads" to herself . And DH isn't above doing housework and does the washing up and surfaces if I'm having a bad day (which recently is most days).
BUT, I just feel so isolated and bored at the moment. We're living in a new area, and so I don't know any people. I met one Mum through bumping into her and offering my phone number, so that's good. I joined the NCT and have started getting involved, and I take DD to swimming lessons, but it's really hard to make a one-to-one connection with anyone, especially as most people know each other already, and don't seem to have time for a new friendship. I've had to leave behind the friends I met at antenatal and my old pre-baby friends. And I have my family visit often (usually one visit a week), which is really nice that DD sees her GPS, but makes it harder for me to socialise.
I've already had an AIBU rant about DH having Christmas parties and work socialising, but I don't think he realises how lonely it is to not talk to anyone ALL DAY. He's mentioned a work collegue and his wife who sound as though they have stuff in common with us, and I've begged him to invite them round, but he keeps telling me that the time isn't right.
I've told DH that I'm struggling, and he comes home and does housework, but in martyr mode, and if things are a bit tense between us, he just clams up and makes sure that if I'm watching TV, he's on the computer (different room) or vice versa, so I don't even get to talk to him then!
I've tried so hard to be pro-active about meeting people, and striking up conversations etc., but it's taking ages to make any proper friends and I just feel so isolated and lonely. Anyone else dealing with this?

Blimey, who thought that I would have to justify myself so much...
DH and I are both highly educated and DH is paid significantly more than a "normal" salary, but he's taken a small pay-drop to change tack a bit on his career. If we weren't living in a very expensive area, then we would be fine for me to go back to work for negative money. However, I would seriously resent having to pay to go back to work when I could be with DD.

Having said all that, what if DH and I were low-paid? Does that mean that we're scum? Does that mean that I'm not allowed a bit of a moan occasionally about a side-issue of being a SAHM? Because we're too stupid to get ourselves out the situation where I stay at home?

Thank you for all the support and advice that I've had on this thread, it's great to hear that others have been in this situation, but that it's been resolved. I'm not putting up with all the insults though, so I'm off.

Great, Xenia! You've done it again. You must really hate women.

MrsTittlemouse - no need to go because pssst (whispers), nobody takes Xenia seriously

Xenia - you do yourself no favours by being so dogmatic and refusing to see that there is any other way of doing things than your way. Can you see that people can't take you seriously when make no allowance for other people's choices and for the fact that we all have free will and minds of our own?

I am glad your life is sorted and things have worked out well for you and your children. You are entitled to share your views but not to rubbish anybody who does not have the same perspective.

Mrs Tittlemouse - good luck with your treatment. I hope it goes well.

I would never rubbish anyone's choices and my life is by no means sorted. I have the same problems everyone has which are there regardless of money or career. I was just pointing out being a housewife is deadly dull and it's not surprising people get fed up with it. The answer is to get some interesting full time work. Or I suppose ther'es always prozac. What was it housewives took in the 1950s - not G&Ts it was some drug probably amphetamines. Working is a better option.

Ok it might be an option for some people but statistically most women don't want to work full time and there are plenty of working women who are on ADs and G&Ts, whose children are a problem, who are lonely and fed-up from time to time and whose marriages are falling apart. It is not a cure-all.

You say that you don't rubbish people's choices but if your only contribution is to insist that the only way to deal with any problem a SAHM woman might have is to work full-time you are not exactly being supportive of her right to chose and her ability to make her mind up for herself. In this thread Mrs Tittlemouse had decided that she didn't want to work for very good reasons. She wanted help in making the life she had chosen a little less lonely - her choice was not really up for debate.

Still, I don't suppose I will have said anything that will make you soften your stance on this and to be fair it has made you a bit of a MN legend so why would you? I am personally grateful that you have made me think about this question again rather than drifting along and I know that I am making the right choice for me to be a SAHM for the time being.

I am sorry that the op has had to endure so much discussion about her decision to stay at home - i haven't read all the posts so I hope ypu have had enough helpful advice MrsT.

I know how hard it is staying at home when you have prev been in an active career, but having children completely changes your life even if you return to work and it is not easy trying to balnce childcare, work etc. etc.

I am a sahm - my dh and I agreed that having children then leaving them with someone else for the day was not something we wanted. We find it hard - dh misses the children but is happy to know that they are with their mum while he is working, I get fed-up of the drudgy aspects but know that I would not have been comfortable giving up control of dc's day to day care.

I had a heated discussion with my dh about poss returning to some kind of paid work sooner (too help with mortgage) but he is still uncomfortable with this. I want to find a way to earn while still being available to look after our still very young children. Don't actually know whether this is possible!

Staying at home is not non-stop excitement and can be lonely but many jobs are boring drudgery so you make the best of things - change what you cannot accept and accept what you cannot change!

But your husband is happy to dump them n someone else - the subservient woman you isn't he? Why isn't that dumping? Men do it all the time and leave the dross childcare and cleaning to women. It's politically unacceptable.

Why can you not accept that as well educated, intelligent women we can make our own minds up. Our husbands don't 'dump' the children on us - we just think we can do a better job of bringing them up than the paid help. They are my children, why wouldn't I want to spend my time with them!?

There is nothing political about it - it is about 2 adults working out the best way to run their family life together. I don't live my life to make sort of feminist statement, I live it to suit my family and myself.

But why wouldn't your husband want to do that instead of you? It's just sexist old fashioned conditioning that makes more women than men want to be housewives surely? It's also a bad example to children and a betrayal of other women never mind your own daughters. Some women think it's best but they're usually wrong.

Sorry Mrs T's thread has got a bit hijacked and I hate to rise to Xenia but I never understand Xenia's belief that there are only 2 options:

1. Be boring/bored because you are a 'housewife'
2. Be interesting because you have a fulltime career job

I think its really sad that some people have to be defined by their job. I remember as a graduate feeling that it was important to be defined by my job, and we'd all sit around talking about who was working the most hours, doing the hardest/most interesting job. I like to think we've all moved beyond that now and its very rare that DH and I get together and talk to friends about work - that would be v. dull.

picking up on HMCs comments regarding the (working to conserve sanity and stepford wife issue). I actually think it takes quite a level of intelligence to be a SAHM, there are plenty of threads on here asking how to occupy little ones, and it is a full time job. I find it stimulating and interesting (most of the time), i certainly dont think my sanity would be best served by having to fret over childcare, worry about DD in my abscence, what if she gets upset etc, what if she is poorly, what if the childcare lets me down, what if she just wants to be with her mummy, when truthfully, her mummy just wants to be with her!! For me, its a no brainer - i want to watch my little girl grow up, i want to be the one she runs to when she grazes her knee, i want to read her stories and play lego, walk in the park, push her on the swings, and i want this to be done every day, not just at weekends after im knackered from a week at work. I have every respect for working mums, its just not something i would chose, and quite frankly, what my DP thinks on the matter is not really relevant - its MY choice.

Dh 'dumped' the childcare on me (lovely phrasing btw - i like to think i got the nicer end of the deal) because we felt that his higher wage and potential to be promoted further made it a sensible decision.

My work is interesting and i enjoyed my job (transport planning) but promotion to the higher echelons did not interest me. You do not do actual planning work any more, just manage other folk and spend hours massaging the ego's of politicians - yuck - I prefer toddlers they are more mature! - i can go back in a few years as a consultant and pick my hours hopefully.

My brother is a SAhd and his wife is a chief engineer, she works close enough to her home to see the kids at lunchtime etc. as my bro is an artist it made sense to manage their family that way - and it works very well.

so sorry to be drawn in again.

xenia, you should not try and impose your values on other people. I think it is a basic maternal instinct to nurture your child, i suspect there is a gene for it nestled somewhere on the x chromosoe. So, im sorry but i think it is a case of nature over nurture here - women are not conditioned into being the main carer, in fact, society lately seems to dictate that women should work, for whatever reason.

As for men dumping menial childcare and domestics on their partners - i have two responses to this. I am my daughters principal carer, cleaner and skivvy does not come into my remit, i dont do anymore housework now than when i was working full time, it is a shared evil in this house. Secondly, my DP would dearly love to be a SAHD, and we have discussed this, i can earn much more than he can, but i cannot bear to miss out on my DDs formative years. I am not interested in society, i really couldnt give a hoot if i am betraying the sisterhood, and im sure that my decision to be a SAHM is not going to affect all of those women, who, because it is right for them, chose to go out to work. My daughter benifits from consistent and loving childcare, she is confident and outgoing and will no doubt thrive in preschool and school, i know that for my family, i have made the right decision. I certainly don't expect that decision to have that decision denegrated by stuck in the wool 1970s feminists, who really don't understand that you can still have equality even if you don't don the power suit and act like a ball breaker.

I jusr wonder what posters would do if their husband earned say double what they did but he didn't feel he could not be at home and he forced the family to live on the wife's much lower income so he could indulge his apparent desire not to be parted from the children? That's even harder to understand than when the lower earner gives up work.

But what is interesting about it? I just don't udnerstand that. Yes an hour or two a day is wonderful, tiny babies, toddlers, teenagers even, really interesting but don't you want to do something else, achieve something or even just sit and read?

I didn't use the word dumping first. It was used to suggest that is what working parents do with their children whereas in fact most working fathers in the land do exactly that because they;ve got someone at home happy to clean their shirts, toilets and children for them. nice deal if you can get it and yes mostly you can get that deal in the UK solely on the basis you have a penis.

Hi Mrs T, It is so difficult being in a new area an trying to meet people. It will get easier, but things don't happen overnight it takes a while to settle in a new area, I found the first six months was the worst but after that it got better. Mother and toddler groups are great, if they aren't your thing try different activities, if its something you like you'll probably meet like minded people. Don't be afraid to talk to people and tell them you've just moved, and most people have always got time for a lovely new friend.

Being a mum the hardest job in the world, and people telling you that its boring doesn't help, but I think despite the highs and lows its the best job in the world and if you look and your daughter, you'll know you made the right decision satying home with her.

I going to log off now before this turns into a SAHM vs WM.

But women are not the same as men. It would be very silly to assume they are. They think differently, their entire bodies are wired up differently. It is not surprising that we react differently to having children and the changes it enforces in our lives.

I don't have daughters but I think I owe it to my sons to show them that women have choices - they can stay at home and nuture their children or they can go to work. They don't have to do anything they don't want to. Surely feminism is about choice more than anything.

How do you know we don't do interesting things? Younger children nap, older children go to pre-school, they are young and they go to bed a lot earlier than I do. I have plenty of time to read, do something creative, or, in my case, study for an MSc so that I don't have to work in an office when I do go back to work. I do some volutary work too. Unless you have OCD, I don't know how you can spend an entire day cleaning and I don't think children need 100% adult attention all day so they are left to get on with things themselves sometimes and use their imaginations and wits to amuse themselves whilst I do something else. Gosh, I am so hard done by!!

I would like to think that if it were that important to DP to stay home too, then we would find a compromise. I know a family this works really well for, they both have good jobs, they both work part time. Ok so this isnt practical for everyone but it works really well for them. If however my being at home meant we couldnt manage financially then i would of course have to go to work, but i would not be happy. Things are tight for us financially now, but that is because DP is establishing a business, something he has always wanted to do. My being at home fascilitates that rather than hindering it.

I have achieved plenty thankyou very much, im very proud of my achievements (degree, PhD, jobs - all achieved whilst i had DD1 who is now 17, worked around her schooling etc) for me raising a happy child as the greatest acheivement of them all and i feel that me being a SAHM to DD2 is what is right for us. Yes, i do wish that i could just sit and read sometimes, i probably could if i were to spend less time on here! At present i don't work i may well go back to work when DD goes to school, although i may well not need to as my DP is establishing an building business so i may just promote myself from the role of secretary and run that full time if it picks up enough to be enough of a challenge for me. OOH, i bet you are hopping mad now - not only do i care for my DPs child, cook his dinner most nights, clean his clothes and keep his house fit for human habitation, i further fullfill my role as his full time slave by doing his accounts and admin (which at the moment doesnt take too much of my time. I must be such a downtroden put upon woman hey - but then i am on ADs so i guess that explains it all!!

Interestingly xenia, i was exactly like you at one point in my life but i have gotten over my men hating chip on my shoulder. I thank the lord above for women like you in the work place, im not so niave to think there isnt a glass ceiling for women, especially mothers and it is important to have people out there who will pick up the cause. But that glass ceiling is not there because i choose to be a full time carer for my child, i also think it is a point of equality that i have that choice to make and you are letting the sisterhood down more than i am by insisting that women only have worth if they are in the work place.

can we please have an SAHM topic??? Somewhere where xenia can't play (you know i love you hon, and i do actually enjoy debating with you, i cant help rising to it im afraid but i think it is a little unfair to pounce every time you see someone having a whinge about some of the less exciting aspects of being a SAHM)

Xenia - don't agree with a lot of what you have to say but I love the controversy of your comments. It's always good to have a bit of stirring in the mix!
I haven't read this whole thread but staying at home doesn't have to mean complete boredom. I too am struggling at the moment ds1 is 5 and I'm just not his favourite person at the moment and ds2 is 2 and is determined to trash the house, the garden and anything else he can get his hands on!Today has been particularly awful and I'll glad to have that first glass of red.
The way I keep sane is by studying. I'm doing an OU degree for myself, although it probably will lead to a career change eventually. It's bloody hard work and at times I can't believe I'm doing it but it keeps me sane.I know that if I didn't have that thing that is completely for me and no-one else I would find it even more difficult.
The other thing I do (which isn't everyones cup of tea) is go onto the preschool committee and also our village hall committee. I've made some friends and it's doing some good for our community.

I don't hate men by the way despite my marriage break up.

What could I like if I didn't work? When I had the twins and was working from home the breastfeeding which I really loved was much easier than expressing when I was working but I was very glad after a feed to hand them back to the nanny for nappy changes etc and holding them whilst they whinged so I could read the paper or work.

I like the days when I'm here when they get home from school - those 5 - 10 minutes when they're telling me about what happened when the thoughts are there rather than later on when they've forgotten but then I'm happy they go upstairs to change etc with the nanny on those days she's there and I can get back to what I want to do.

Cleaning etc I do loads of over the years and even now and keeping the house tidy but I wouldn't like it to be a job kind of thing. it's something all adults do whether they work or not.

If I didn't work (and I suppose I don't really have to as it is but choose to) then I could do more of the other things there often isn't time for but they aren't really more children things. I think I'm content with the time I spend with the children and like the fact they have a lot of different influences on them because I'm sufficiently humble to know mother often doesn't know best even if she bigs herself up to think she does because there's nothing else in her life to stoke her ego - except that she's the best person on the planet with her children.

From paragraph 3 though Xenia it sounds like you spend little more than 5-10 minutes a day with your children?

Tell me that isn't so!

Being a sahm has it's downsides, as do most jobs. I think someone should be able to talk about the downsides to being at home, without being told they should get out and get a job.

Xenia - I am baffled by your opinion that raising your own child is not achieving anything, as you seem to think achievements are only made in the official workplace. What about childcare professionals - are they too, not achieving anything or doing something worthwhile?

I imagine you took time and trouble over choosing childcare for your children. some people believe that a parent is the best childcare, and also ultimately the most rewarding achievement.

True feminism should be about being allowed to make choices.

xenia, the truth of the matter is, we are all entitled to our opinion, and many of us choose to stay at home with our dc, how this makes us boring with no ambition astounds me..... bringing up children is the hardest, most rewarding job a parent can do. you really havent got a clue what you are talking about, and your stereotypical views of stay at home mums are quite frankly dated. put that in your "working" pipe and smoke it!!!