Rules for your Older Teen

[DadJoke]

My DS (16) suggests I am ruining his life with the household rules I've set, and that his friends have much less stringent rules. I'm after a reality check.

For background, he misses some lessons, doesn't do all his homework and gets a mix of results, none of which reflect his ability. He is obssessed with media. He's currently banned from his PS4 until April because of previous bad behaviour. If his grades improve by then, he'll get it back.

Household Chores:
Do the dishwasher each morning.
Sort the socks every now and then.

His chores:
Shower, clean clothes and deoderant every day.
Clean his room once a week.
Bring plates and dishes of his to the kitchen.
Hang up his washing.
If he does cook for himself (a few lunches a week) he clears up.

He needs to get up in time for his lessons and attend them, supervised.
Do all his homework on time.
No phone during school hours (during lockdown)
Spend 5 to 6 hours a day doing the lessons, homework and revision.
Three hours in the morning Sat and Sun homework and revision, then he does what he wants. No laptop after 11, in bed by 1, no phone.
Once all that's done he can do what he wants until 10:30, after which, no more laptop, but he keeps his phone.
Bed at 12:00.

He went on strike from school for three days because I insisted on him being supervised - when I installed a screen watcher (with his reluctant permission) I found he was spending most of the time watching Twitch. Eventually, with the help of the school, he returned, though I was on the verge of caving and letting him just make his own mistakes (which would be doing barely any work and playing computer games all the time).

He has downloaded an app to teach himself a language. It says you do it in 15 minute segments each day.
He can spend 7 hours going from segment to segment

I think your rules are adequate! Everything he does now is a preparation for an adult life.

@dadjoke "I've always been very careful to frame comments in terms of current behaviour or problems rather than nature - so I would never call him lazy, or stupid or disorganised."

Yes apologies - I was thinking of how you frame it in your head not accusing you of calling him lazy. Talking to him about his behaviour is very "adult to child" and likely to put his back up though. I would stick to helping him to solve the problems that he perceives (Eg getting decent grades, making good notes, keeping concentration up, getting motivation to complete work & not procrastinating, figuring out what to after A levels) as much as poss. He is clearly not happy.

You've mentioned this "turtling" concept a couple of times. It sounds like you understand him really well and are in a good position to help him.

I wonder if he is one of those people who needs a break between school and homework. I tried to push getting homework out of the way first with both of mine. With one it just works. The other tried it but is much happier having at least 2 hours off straight after school before knuckling down, and never working Saturdays. She doesn't mind doing Sunday mornings. She is a bit of a procrastinator admittedly but for her the other way was just flogging a dead horse. She has a friend who does virtually no homework on weekdays and crams it all into weekends.

On the surface it seems authoritarian but the more you share the more it seems caring.
I would

• ditch the ps4 completely
• get the school nurse to use conners forms to screen for ADD/ADHD (especially as you struggled too)
• focus on weekdays and let him do work or not at the weekends
• teach the pomodoro technique or whatever let him have five minutes per hour for movement or messing around on his phone. He is going to need self management techniques.
• focus on goals he wants to achieve too

He might need to fail or nearly fail to find the motivation like you did.

Oh I would also let him choose how often he showers and cleans his room.

@ScrapThatThen
With the showering, I don't push it too hard unless he stinks, which is what happens if he goes without showering for a day. If he's been playing computer games, he gets whiffy pretty quickly. I don't see why I should have to put up with his BO. A shower once a day doesn't seem much to ask. However, I'll wait until I notice he smells rather than hassling him to have a shower every day.

I've often thought he might have ODD, but hadn't consider ADHD. If I can persuade him to get in front of the school nurse I will.

@flyingsuitcase
I do try to speak to him adult to adult but I think we are both a bit stuck. He ends up talking back like a child when I talk to him as an adult. It's a really hard pattern to break. But behaviour is clearly a bad way of framing things - thank you for that.

Worth exploring re ADHD (can make a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge difference) but that is something that you and he will have to discuss and very very carefully.

I sympathise OP. I could have written this post. My DS is the same. After several meetings with the school and his continued non-compliance with online learning, they have insisted he attends. He's been back 2 weeks now and seems to be a lot better - mood wise and in terms of his schoolwork getting done. Is that an option?

If you can afford a full cognitive assessment using the WISC scales then that might pick up any specific difficulties with say executive function, memory, attention.

I completely disagree with most of the replies.

I have a teenager, she does not get to negotiate her learning with me or get to have access to her phone during school hours. She does her work and treats her day as a proper school day because that is the only option she is given.
We go with natural consequences, if she doesn't submit work and or study, she deals with the natural consequences of that.
Bottom line is they get 1 shot at this stage of life and yes they can do it again when they're older but why even entertain that.

You are his parent, set your boundary and stick to it. Shower with love, care and empathy but don't negotiate your rules or what is acceptable.

These statements are contradictory:

"that is the only option she is given."
&
"if she doesn't submit work and or study, she deals with the natural consequences of that"

the natural consequence would be failing her course or getting a terrible grade. A natural consequence is not "she doesn't have any other options but to do the work".

I imagine PP meant she punishes her DD which is a "natural consequence" of the DD not submitting work or studying.

MNers have way more energy to try to control other people's lives than I ever will.

Other PPs have offered very good advice, OP, which sounds very positive.

On other notes- it seems that the ps4 shouting/swearing thing is quite common among teenage boys (at least those of my acquaintance). It helped me a little, to know that.

Also- this is an incredibly difficult time for everyone, but teenagers are having a uniquely difficult time, I think. It must be so hard to motivate himself, when he can't even see his friends to let off steam. So if his ps4 is his 'social life', as it were, I think that to ban it totally until April is quite harsh. Could there be some compromise there? One of the things that ds1 has told me he appreciated was that I was prepared to admit I was wrong, or overly harsh. It made him feel more adult, somehow.

Lastly- both ds1 and I found it easier to talk about things when we were in the car I know we're not supposed to take unnecessary journeys right now, but a walk might serve the same purpose.

I have DS16 and DS18

Rules are that they attend online classes, do their HW . I know if they don’t do HW or hand an assignment late as their school/college sends an automated mail telling me that same day

Other rule is lights off at midnight

Other than that no rules right now, DS(16) socialises through gaming.

I don’t make them revise (you say 3hrs every Sat and Sun?! )

They do ok, sometimes fail, sometimes hand stuff too late but on the whole they are still with it.

I think at their age it’s not about controlling them but about guiding, but I imagine some people may think that too soft an approach

@DadJoke you talk about the number of hours he has x and y devices available but from his point of view it will be all about the control you have over those things - he will never learn to self regulate with so many controls in place.

You mentioned maths A level up thread - did he get an 8/9 for maths at GCSE? If not and with the lack of engagement you mention since Y10 he shouldn't be doing maths A level. Many, many people hit their peak at GCSE with maths and only the most gifted or motivated survive A level.

Are you sure A levels are for him? I preempted they wouldn't be right for my DS. He did a 3 A level Equiv Btec and it was absolutely the right thing for him - ended up with triple distinction (equiv to 3 A's) which he would never have got had he done A levels.

Education is free for a year after they turn 18. In your shoes (given the current state of the world and how hard it is to see the wood for the trees for many young people) I would back off completely and inform the school you will no longer be leading the horse to water, leave him to it and see what happens. Look up local sixth form college options with a view to him starting again in September. He might just surprise you or he might prove you right but then his punishment will be starting again and being a year behind his friends.

One thing that worked for me when I was that age, was the knowledge that good grades meant leaving home. So in one way you're doing the right thing, make home hard for him so that he knows uni is his way out

It's so much harder as they get older isn't it? Sink or swim sounds sensible if they have the personal resources to cope with it - some level of self esteem, organisational skills - but could be disastrous with a young person who just doesn't have those resources to draw on.

I totally get what you mean about him responding as child which pushes you into parent "role". This could even be something you discuss explicitly with him, carefully. My first boss quietly had this conversation with me and it was some of the best advice I've been given. httpss://www.philgowler.co.uk/therapies/the-parent-adult-child-model-simple-yet-it-works/

Hmmm id say your been like a dictator. I'd clam down and let crack of. He can have all technology minus during school day. Bed at 11. My 11 year old hasn't got up yet and has ended up with the bacon sandwich in bed

Well I'd slack off, if you let up too. Because you are too extreme.

You'll lose him if you continue.

By age 16 I had no real rules or punishments. I'd done the groundwork, from when they were younger and by 16, they were in charge of their own destiny. We had conversations if I felt things could be better. I expressed disappointment if things went wrong. We talked about the future and repercussions of their behavior now. But I didn't punish. We have a great relationship now.

I think you're doing as well as you can - some posters are being harsh on you. That said, you have compared him unfavourably to his sister in this thread a few times, and there's not many things that will upset a teenager more than that. I'm sure you're not saying it directly to him, but I think it's something to watch

These threads always come down to the stricter & looser people.

I'm never clear on how the strict people know when it will be time to let go. When would it be ok To let them sink or swim. I don't have the energy to be a tiger mum, anyway, but if I did... I'd want to know what my exit plan was.

Hope this thread has helped OP with something.

Way too harsh.

My dd has her phone for online lessons, they can work in groups then. I don’t police anything at the weekend.

No Xbox for a 16 year old in lockdown is just mean. How does he connect with his friends? Xbox live is possibly the most important thing in a 16 year olds life.

I think removing a phone from a 16 year old at 7 is a bit tight too. They’re old enough to get married, have children, join the forces, but have to give their phone to their parents 7:00 pm for family time every night😮our 4 teens avoided family time as much as poss. They all turned out ok. Not sure even l would want enforced family time as an adult!

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow
He gets his phone until midnight, 1:00am at weekends, not 7:00pm.

If he has his phone during lessons he simply plays games while the lesson continues. It’s not permitted at school for good reason. I’m just enforcing that rule at home.

The PS4 caused fights, upset the neighbours who were trying to sleep and if he did his homework it was very rushed so he could get on the PS4. When he’s got into better habits he can have it back. I’ve told him if he can show me he’s done all his homework to a reasonable standard for a couple of weeks, he can have it back before then. His behaviour has certainly improved and he can still play in the laptop if he wants.

Spending family time is always optional. I ask him if he wants to join in with stuff. He most often doesn’t but it’s nice when he does.

I was talking about someone else who removed the phone at 7.00 pm!

Didn’t realise that about neighbours!! Yeah absolutely!

I’ve had a teen boy. He was the same. He shook out ok. Hth

Have you discussed the fact he doesn’t seem that interested in school and maybe he should be looking for an alternative route.
It is great that you want to shape the 25 year old man but what does he actually want.
Not what he thinks you want but more about discarding what he doesn’t want and seeing what is left.
Even if you give him a year to try different things and leave him to it.
It is no good shaping a 25 year old man in the shape you want. You are just forcing a square peg into a round hole and it shouldn’t be that hard.

@Bythemillpond I had another chat with him today about A-levels. I reminded him that he didn’t have to do them and could do something else instead if that wasn’t working out. He said he wanted to do
them and wanted to do well in them.

To be clear when I say “build the best 25-year old” I simply mean give him opportunities now which will ensure his options are as wide open as possible until he knows what he wants to do. A-levels are simply keys which allow you to open more doors, as is a degree. If he had his heart set in being a barber, doing something else practical or getting an apprenticeship I’d be 100% supportive.

If you have no idea what to do with your life it’s better to have more options, and if I can help him with that, I will. When he’s 25 he won’t regret only doing 8 hours of media a day instead of 12 but he might regret what the absence of training or qualifications bring.

His best chance of finding himself and making his own rules is to be in further education or something similar.