Rules for your Older Teen

[DadJoke]

My DS (16) suggests I am ruining his life with the household rules I've set, and that his friends have much less stringent rules. I'm after a reality check.

For background, he misses some lessons, doesn't do all his homework and gets a mix of results, none of which reflect his ability. He is obssessed with media. He's currently banned from his PS4 until April because of previous bad behaviour. If his grades improve by then, he'll get it back.

Household Chores:
Do the dishwasher each morning.
Sort the socks every now and then.

His chores:
Shower, clean clothes and deoderant every day.
Clean his room once a week.
Bring plates and dishes of his to the kitchen.
Hang up his washing.
If he does cook for himself (a few lunches a week) he clears up.

He needs to get up in time for his lessons and attend them, supervised.
Do all his homework on time.
No phone during school hours (during lockdown)
Spend 5 to 6 hours a day doing the lessons, homework and revision.
Three hours in the morning Sat and Sun homework and revision, then he does what he wants. No laptop after 11, in bed by 1, no phone.
Once all that's done he can do what he wants until 10:30, after which, no more laptop, but he keeps his phone.
Bed at 12:00.

He went on strike from school for three days because I insisted on him being supervised - when I installed a screen watcher (with his reluctant permission) I found he was spending most of the time watching Twitch. Eventually, with the help of the school, he returned, though I was on the verge of caving and letting him just make his own mistakes (which would be doing barely any work and playing computer games all the time).

Thank you for all the advice. I’ll respond to some individual comments tomorrow.

The supervision is very recent (last couple of weeks) and is a result of an intervention from the school. After discussion with head he was given the choice of going back into school on report or working supervised at home. He chose the latter.

Last term I got him up each day and did some basic checking on homework, but it turned out he had been skipping lessons and getting 10% or so in essays as well as missing homework. He says he wants to do well in school but is entirely distracted by media. He had no motivation to do anything else at all.

His DS was self-motivated and did well under a light touch. Same media rules applied. She never had any issues with keeping herself and her room tidy and helping out. I’ve no idea why he doesn’t shower as often as he should - he’s been taught to do so just as she was.

There has never been an issue aside from grumbling with him doing his ten minutes or so a day of chores, or being in his room by midnight on school nights.

I’m surprised that people think doing six hours including all lessons, revision and homework in a day is too much - I suppose at least he is getting better grades and doing his homework now.

PS4 specifically he has found tremendously addictive and he will do it to the exclusion of all else. It seems to affect his mood badly -he can become very aggressive when he’s asked to stop. 18 hours a week seemed like reasonable amount to me - left to his own devices he would play all the time.

Frankly, I’d rather let him get on with his education - it would be so much easier, but I saw last term where that led - and now he’s playing catch-up. I really wouldn’t mind much what he did if he was doing the basics at school.

I made the rules after talking with him about what’s fair; the supervision us the thing he must objects to because in part he can’t just game or watch twitch all day.

@crimsonlake

'You can take a horse to water but you cannot make him drink' springs to mind. He needs to learn from his own mistakes. Carry on like this and you will lose your son.

The issue for me (and the school) is that with a term of misbehaviour, lack of attendance, detentions and poor results, he has had plenty of opportunities to make mistakes, but doesn't appear to have learnt from them. I only wish he was motivated like his sister and cousins. It must be awful for him.

If this carries on then leaving him to his own devices is certainly an option, but there is every chance it might end up with him crashing and burning with no A-levels. If I can get him through this difficult time so that he ends up with OK grades, then he is free to live his life as he wishes.

If he wanted to do an apprenticeship, or showed any interest in any vocation at all, I'd do everything I could to support it. When I ask him what he wants to do with his life he says "play PS4." He knows it's not a realistic answer, and when he's calm and we talk at length, he says he wants help.

I really don't know what to do.

@willandgrace

I have a 16 year old and I’d say way too strict, they need to learn to make their own choices and mistakes - supervising his lessons to this extent seems very over the top - remember these kids are struggling, their only social engagement (with people their age) is via gaming and phones, it needs to be a balanced approach

It's only been in the last couple of weeks I''ve been supervising, at the school's request. The other option they gave him was to come in, which he rejected. That certainly would have been my preferred choice. He has the phone and laptop from when he gets back to school until bed - 8 hours a day on school days, which seems like enough.

I'm hoping that as he continues to do better in his grades (which is happening) he will enjoy the feedback and I can ease off. I honestly can't wait for him to go back to school.

The big lesson I've always wanted him to learn (which his sister has) is - do the things you need to do first, then enjoy the things you want to do.

Stop comparing him to his siblings and cousins. You're still not clear with us whether he's Y11 or Y12....

When he says he wants help, what does he see that entailing? There's help and there's micromanagement leading to resentment.

Many of my most motivated tutoring students have asked for help themselves and their parents then help them to gain that support. I can tell you also, that their parents are happy as they enjoy their time and come away feeling they've learnt and got help. They often find the subjects difficult and it is hard to gain true support through online learning with school at the moment.

I do also have a student who's in school at the moment and is finding that helpful as there are fewer students in.

@FATEdestiny

Another vote for you're way to harsh OP.

Is your DS year 12 or year 11?

Year 12. I wasn't harsh last term, just made sure he got to school and checked on his homework occasionally.

@DadJoke
Y12 is a very tough year anyway and many students do have this issue with motivation about now. You have to remember that your son had everything cancelled last year so hasn't had the usual structure.
But, you cannot keep running his life like this, he is almost an adult and you are doing him no favours here. Explain to him that it's up to him or back to school, his choice. Ask if he actually needs support- for many subjects it's a big jump up to A level work even without the gaps in learning and exam experience this year group have. Can you afford tuition for him?

If you're worried about crashing with no A levels, I assume he is Y12. In which case I think you are way OTT.

My DD is 16, Y12 and we don't really have any rules now - although when she was younger we did a basic no phone overnight and a guide for bedtime.

She has lessons online from 8.55 to 3.45 excluding lunch of 1Hr20. She then gets on with homework which usually takes up to 3hrs a night and usually works a total of 6hrs-ish over the weekend. But this is down to her. I occasionally ask her what she has, or what her plan for the day is if she appears to be lounging around too much. She has her phone all the time, but does turn it off when she goes to sleep, usually at about 11-11.30.

I do know a bit about where you are coming from as my DS (now 19) never had the same work ethic. He did need chasing all the time, but it was down to him if he didn't get homework done etc. He had to take the punishment from school (I appreciate things like detention etc probably aren't really happening at the moment). But even with him, I didn't really enforce a bed time, and he had his phone. He did get A levels, although not at the grades that I think he was really capable of.

The only thing I am forever grateful for is that we never gave in to the demands for a PS/X box. I don't think I could have coped with that in the mix as well!

HAs your DS always been like this with school work, or do you think it is a response to the current situation, and on-line learning in particular?

The school recommends he does one to three hours of additional work every day, including weekends, which I thought was too much

What sort of work? It all sounds very woolly Maybe he does need to go back to school to give him some structure.

I have older children and at some point they become past school. (I wanted to leave at 14 and couldn’t. The last 2 years were purgatory and a waste of time) They can see that it would maybe make life easier if they could just knuckle down and do the work but it isn’t happening
I don’t think you can force it. I would discuss alternatives. I know in the times we are living in it makes things almost impossible but is there anyway he can get out of the house to do a job, any job whether it is at the weekend or in the evenings or even a couple of days per week and see how he feels if he is earning money and it isn’t just school, homework and video games.

@Harrysmummy246
You are absolutely right about lockdown - once he clocked that nothing he would do would affect his grades, he shut down. It made perfect sense and was hard to argue with. His GSCE predictions were based on what the school thought he was capable of, rather than what he might actually achieve, so he did OK.

The school is very supportive and are always offering him one-to-one time, which he mainly rejects. He has no fear of detentions or any other similar measures; they simply don't work. They end up calling me and asking me to take action. If he was doing modestly OK (say Ds and Cs) I wouldn't even worry about it.

Since Jnauary, he does have a tutor once a week, which has really helped give him some confidence in maths - he's at least getting 33% or so now. The tutor has always been a choice for him, and he's welcome to stop whenever he wants.

He works better in a structured environment. I am also easily distracted and only the fact that I owe a duty to my business partners and familyt keeps me on my toes.He just doesn't have the motivation.

He has always been resistant to doing any homework, but it's gotten a lot worse since Year 10.

I regret ever buying him the PS4. He wouldn't be worse off now if he'd never had it.

Way too harsh.
At 16 I think they need to be treat with more guidance than rules.

@Bythemillpond

The school recommends he does one to three hours of additional work every day, including weekends, which I thought was too much

What sort of work? It all sounds very woolly Maybe he does need to go back to school to give him some structure.

I have older children and at some point they become past school. (I wanted to leave at 14 and couldn’t. The last 2 years were purgatory and a waste of time) They can see that it would maybe make life easier if they could just knuckle down and do the work but it isn’t happening
I don’t think you can force it. I would discuss alternatives. I know in the times we are living in it makes things almost impossible but is there anyway he can get out of the house to do a job, any job whether it is at the weekend or in the evenings or even a couple of days per week and see how he feels if he is earning money and it isn’t just school, homework and video games.

@Bythemillpond

The school means homework plus revision outside of school hours. I'm just asking him to do somewhat less than the usual non-lockdown school hours plus the weekend work. Perhaps I should reconsider the latter, at least.

I would absolutely love him to go back to school - they have laptops and ipads with no crap on them, but I can't physically make him, and the school gave him the choice, unfortunately.

Job prospects for 16-17 year old part time look awful. He doesn't want to get a part-time job "he has better things to do and nothing to spend money on" and I do worry about the future for young people in the current climate. I will keep working on it - it's not something I can force.

@Harrysmummy246

Stop comparing him to his siblings and cousins. You're still not clear with us whether he's Y11 or Y12....

Year 12. The reason I mentioned his sibling was to show that I'm not generally authoritarian, just that kids differ, and what might work with one won't work with another.

Hel thank you for it one day. None of it, apart from the ps4 ban, seems over the top. I have a 16 year old and dont have those rules but I'm too lax and more organisation like that would possible be a good thing but no chance shed do it now.

Can you go back to the school and say that you supervising him isn't working and he'd be better off in school?
It would be easier for you and probably better for him not to have a choice.
You're being given too many roles here and perhaps the requirements around school supervision are detrimental to you being able to support and encourage him.

A level maths is a big jump from GCSE at the best of times. I easily got A*at GCSE and daughter of two mathematicians but still found A level tricky, and while I didn't 'crash' til Uni, I still did, when I didn't know how to actually revise or find things difficult.
Your DS may not actually know how to study, get organised or revise effectively. It's not taught well in schools or with any consideration that it might be different for different students. Took me best part of 15 years to work it out.... Have you actually asked him that? Does he even want to do A levels or was that your choice?

I know I keep coming back, but lads of this age are often like this but don't know how or want to ask for help. I don't think you're helping by insisting on a particular number of hours etc.

In the kindest way possible if I tried to take my DC’s phones when they were in Year 12 I think they would’ve laughed in my face. When they were your DS’s age they all went off to uni less than 18 months later - I had to start stepping back at some point to prepare them for that.

I don’t think any of the tidying chores are unreasonable though.

I don’t think you should tell a Year 12 when to go to bed.

@beamur

Can you go back to the school and say that you supervising him isn't working and he'd be better off in school?

If the current supervision doesn't work out then yes, the head of year said that he would tell DS he would have to go back to school. But DS said he'd prefer to be supervised by me (which means being in the same room with the screen visible). I'd much prefer he went back.

Your DS may not actually know how to study, get organised or revise effectively. It's not taught well in schools or with any consideration that it might be different for different students. Took me best part of 15 years to work it out.... Have you actually asked him that? Does he even want to do A levels or was that your choice?

He really doesn't know how to study, get organised or revise effectively, and he won't take advice from me and it's pointless thrusting it on him. I said he had lots of options at 16, and that if he'd preferred an apprenticeship or something similar, I'd be happy to support him. I gave him a list and offered him the services of a friend in careers. He said he had no idea what to do and in the end opted to stay at school. He avoids any long-term decisions because I think he has no idea what he wants to do.

I've offered him personal counselling and offered to attend family counselling with him, but he doesn't want to do that.

@chillybeans

I don’t think any of the tidying chores are unreasonable though.

I don’t think you should tell a Year 12 when to go to bed.

@chillybeans I don’t think you should tell a Year 12 when to go to bed.

He doesn't have to sleep, just be in his room with no media. Left to his own devices, he stays up until 4:00am playing on his phone and then is too tired to go to school. The consequences of him not going to school were words from the teacher and detentions. They had no effect on his behaviour. He doesn't really object to going to bed at midnight, and the effect has been that he gets a good night's sleep.

I was about to say you are being far too harsh, but having read your updates I'm not so sure now. He obviously desperately needs a lot of input to succeed. I'd be reluctant to leave him to it. One of mine was like this (completely different to my other DC). I was extremely involved and quite strict until GCSEs were over and then decided at 16 she 'should' be able to motivate herself and for the sake of our sanity and family life I backed off.

I now regret that - I should have kept on at her until A levels had finished as she didn't end up getting any, it was a complete waste of two years.

@chillybeans

In the kindest way possible if I tried to take my DC’s phones when they were in Year 12 I think they would’ve laughed in my face. When they were your DS’s age they all went off to uni less than 18 months later - I had to start stepping back at some point to prepare them for that.

I gave him a lot of slack last term. Left to his own devices, he would play on his phone until 4:00am and then be too tired for school. This resulted in the school contacting me time and time again about his absences, and resulted in special measures, which didn't change his behaviour. I'm hoping it will help him get into better habits. Maybe I am wrong. In the end, if it doesn't work out I'll leave him to it.

@BigSandyBalls2015

Yeah - I'm trying to build the best 25-year-old I can, and I don't think he'll do well in his A-levels if I leave him to it, much as I'd like to. When he's 25, the A levels will have lead to more opportunities, and hopefully he won't resent me too much.

I personally benefitted from a structured enviroment, and sixth form was very hard for me in that I did as little as possible, then had to work like a demon near the end, primarily because I didn't want to disappoint my DM, who had left me to it. Not the greatest of motivations, but it worked.

Anyway, in more positive news, his Philosophy teacher phoned yesterday and said he's seen a very big improvement recently, and DS deserves praise.

Ok, would he benefit from a study habits session with someone who's not you? An occasional chat with a mentor type figure who he can check in with, ask questions, look over his plans/ homework deadlines?

@Harrysmummy246

Ok, would he benefit from a study habits session with someone who's not you? An occasional chat with a mentor type figure who he can check in with, ask questions, look over his plans/ homework deadlines?

Yes, he really would benefit from it and I'd love that. The big obstacle is persuading him to try - he immediately rejected it out of hand when I asked. It took a long time to persuade him to have a maths tutor, but he is happy with that now.