My baby is so difficult during the day

[swallowinthesky]

I would really appreciate some advice. My beautiful baby is seven weeks old and he sleeps pretty well at night. He wakes up to be fed, then have a cuddle so he’s upright, then back in his crib. Every now and then he won’t want to go back in his crib but is content in your arms and I don’t mind this.

But during the day it’s another matter. He is often twitchy and agitated. He won’t just let you cuddle him but fights it, head butting, kicking down with his feet, flinging himself around in my arms. I can’t put him down as he cries.

He will settle in the sling but with the caveat that you’re walking outside which obviously isn’t practical for hours upon end.

Car journeys don’t work, neither does the pram. As I say I wouldn’t mind holding him if he was calm but trying to hold bad soothe him when he’s like that is a nightmare. As a result he gets overtired and increasingly fretful and tearful. It’s really upsetting to see.

Are there any suggestions for him sleeping a bit more in the day? I do worry about him a lot, yesterday he was awake for six hours and only napped for about twenty minutes before that.

Don’t think of it as a routine in terms of sticking to the clock, but more an order in which you do things. So he wakes up at whatever time, you feed him as soon as he wakes, when the feed is done you go for a walk etc etc and make it the same. I’ve also been using an app called huckleberry this time round (baby 2 is 12 weeks) and if you put in their wake up time it will tell you when the next nap is due so that can give you a heads up to get him in the sling/pram/darkened room or whatever.

I’m sorry, I really hope there’s a magic cure for you but the answer is usually just to ride it out. The only practical advice I could over is:
At the risk of sending Mumsnetters mad. (They think they are quacks) an osteopath? Have a search on here so as not to derail the thread.
One visit really helped my child. But it wasn’t a magic bullet, he still never slept but it he would suddenly go down on his back. Before that, he screamed blue murder if he wasn’t being held.
If your skint, don’t do it but if you’ve got £50 to spare, give it a try?

Huckleberry is for slightly older babies, though. And he just doesn’t sleep ... it’s not as simple as a dark room, etc. I think many people don’t understand this and it does make me think it might not be normal. The HV said cheerfully ‘oh, he’ll go back to sleep when he’s been weighed.’ I suppose he did, eight hours later

He has money , his appointment was yesterday in fact. He STILL didn’t sleep!

Yes my daughter would wake up in a lovely mood! And then around two-five o clock she would begin her witching hours until bedtime (I think she was tired). She would fight the sling and I just had to persevere bouncing her around like a maniac until she calmed down don't worry about a routine yet they make their own schedule and it will probably become more predictable after twelve weeks. You will begin to enjoy your baby one day soon don't worry this isn't forever, he is fresh out of the womb still and adjusting. You'll wake up one day and realise that this phase has passed x

He sounds like mine, and if he has days like that it's because he didn't nap enough in the morning. He loves a long morning nap, and if I interrupted that he's miserable for the rest of the day and always seems overtired and grumpy and then doesn't nap well and then doesn't go down well at night. Like yours he sleeps generally pretty well at night and is so happy and lovely in the morning.

He'll also only sleep in the sling during the day. That's it. But he will sleep pretty well in it luckily. I've noticed he needs a nap pretty soon after waking in the morning, and will go down easily if I put him in the sling after 45/60 mins but if I leave him longer even if he seems happy and chatty he gets tired very quickly. Like you I very quickly put him in his bouncer and shower with him in the bathroom with me, then into the sling he goes.

He also won't just fall asleep as soon as I put him in like some babies seem to he needs movement and noise, so I tuck his head under one of the passes so he's cosy, and either rock him in the bathroom where it's dark and have white noise on my phone really loudly, or I Hoover with him and that works. I leave white noise on the whole time he sleeps.

Of course none of this applies today because he had his jabs yesterday and is very unhappy

I hope your little one starts sleeping better during the day soon, for both your sakes

Ah my witching hours start earlier than that! Generally 11-8/9. If it’s a bad day, this is the thing, some days are lovely but it’s so unpredictable.

Yes, our babies sound very similar, addler and I think you’re right, mine needs a long morning nap. He’s asleep on me now.so I hope today will be good (actually it’s almost sure to be as someone is visiting, he’s always gorgeous when someone else sees him!)

I’m dreading the jabs, and am in two minds as to whether to postpone given how generally unsettled he is just now.

I have an 8 week old and he is similar. I realized the head butting is a sign of hunger for him so I breastfeed again. Other time it’s wind or silent reflux. I think it’s a growth spurt so he basically wants feeding a lot. I know it’s easy to say but with babies everything is a phase and will pass soon enough.

The jabs weren't as bad as I was expecting to be honest, he didn't nap much during the morning because of the appointment time so when we came home and he had a feed and calpol he then slept in the sling for four hours on me. He slept pretty much the same at night, it just took him a little longer to fall asleep, and he's been a bit more unhappy while awake. But to be honest I think the calpol and the jabs have made him more drowsy!

There were a couple of days where I woke him after 3 hours in the sling in the morning as I thought it was too long, and he was just miserable for the rest of the day and didn't settle and was so grumpy. I felt really bad. The next day I just let him sleep as long as he wanted (still with resettling in between sleep cycles with some jiggling/louder white noise as I could tell he wasn't ready to wake up yet) and he had a four hour nap and was the most content baby for the rest of the day. He just seems to really like a very long morning nap and then a couple of shorter ones in the afternoon and then bed somewhere between 6-8, whenever fits in with his last nap

Oh and during the day if he's going in the sling I make sure the heating is off and he's only in a vest and baby grow, and even with that he gets a bit warm

I think this might be the source of the problem then, as I’ve been waking him to feed at 6ish when he stirs but he’s never interested. Thanks addler you might just have saved my sanity!

He’s woken now and is smiling at me

I hope it helps! Although I watch me come back in a couple of weeks when it all goes to shit again

I can tell when he still wants to sleep because he'll grizzle/stir/fidget, so I'll resettle him, but when he's properly awake his eyes open and if I try to make the white noise louder he'll cry quite loudly whereas normally it soothes him. As soon as I stop the white noise he's happy and alert, it's like he knows it's for sleep time and doesn't like it when he's not sleeping. Probably also why he cries when I put him in the sling and tuck his head and put it on, he really does fight going to sleep unless we're out walking. He's definitely not a baby who will just fall asleep on me anywhere during the day.

OP would you say he over feeds? Over feeding can be a sign of silent reflux. The feeding soothes the burning sensation.

You're doing great. I promise you. It's really very tough

Yes mine is the same, have we got twins from different mums!?

I think huckleberry works from 2 months - so you can start using it next week?! But tbh it just uses the principle that they shouldn’t be awake for more than x minutes at this age. You just need to choose the minutes you think are appropriate for your child and then start preparing him for sleep in advance of that time. I’ve had 2 difficult babies but something would get them to sleep eventually. Sling usually did the trick, or bouncing on exercise ball in the dark. If you just want to have a rant that is completely fine but it’s not true that your baby will not sleep, it’s just that you haven’t yet found the way to make it work for them.

Sounds like it!

The smiles are so so lovely aren't they? They make everything seem better. I'm a filthy hypocrite though because I lovingly berate DP for chatting to him during the night when he's settling him after a feed but then he finds me talking and smiling back to him. I can't help it, I feel like he'd be sad or confused if I didn't answer his little chats!

Hey there, really sorry to hear you're struggling
Obviously all babies are completely different but here are a few ideas to possibly try:

1. In the morning my 10-week-old is only able to stay awake for a very short window before getting very overtired - like 40 min maybe. So he wakes up, feeds for about 15-20 minutes, then about 5 minutes to change clothes/diaper and then he'd only play for about 10 minutes before he starts whining ever so slightly. At first I thought he's just bored or something but now I know - I need to start settling him right away after the first whine or yawn. If I do that he'd fall asleep way easier than if I let him go for another 10 minutes.
2. When he started becoming more alert (probably around the age of your baby actually) it took me a while to realise that sometimes whining is not because we're not settling him well enough but because he wants to play. So instead of trying to rock or cuddle him I started putting him on the play mat and offering activities - toys, books, songs etc. That's something I now try when I know that he's fed, changed and not sleepy. That also helps to get him more tired before the next nap so he sleeps better.
3. Is he getting enough milk in before bedtime? That's probably rather rare (and may not apply to FF babies at all) but we recently discovered that issues with the latch were preventing my DS from getting enough milk in, so he'd need to feed every hour. So basically he couldn't sleep for more than one sleep cycle at a time (30-40 min) because he'd be hungry at the end of it.

Hope it gets better real soon!

We had a spell of this and the days were really hard. I can’t remember when Huckleberry starts giving you sweet spots (is it 8 weeks?) but I started recording timings from about 6 weeks when I was getting desperate, the sweet spot to sleep is usually about 90 minutes after wake up time. I didn’t think it’d work, it seemed ridiculous as she didn’t seem tired but I’d rock her and put her dummy in and she’d just fall asleep, I was amazed! Now we have the sweet spots bit and it’s spot on almost every time, it really is worth a try.
Maybe try not to worry too much about how much sleep he is getting overall as it can become an obsession that’ll just majorly stress you out

@ohmysense we also noticed the first nap of the day seems to be the best one to set the day right. Baby is 12 weeks old and, like you say, after 45 mins of being up, she needs to nap again. Today OH is off work so was playing with her while I had some me time, I came back and they were dancing when I knew she needed her nap but I didn’t have the heart to stop them. Within 5 minutes she was past it but, because we’d missed the first cues, she took so much longer to settle

@Tier500

I think huckleberry works from 2 months - so you can start using it next week?! But tbh it just uses the principle that they shouldn’t be awake for more than x minutes at this age. You just need to choose the minutes you think are appropriate for your child and then start preparing him for sleep in advance of that time. I’ve had 2 difficult babies but something would get them to sleep eventually. Sling usually did the trick, or bouncing on exercise ball in the dark. If you just want to have a rant that is completely fine but it’s not true that your baby will not sleep, it’s just that you haven’t yet found the way to make it work for them.

Well you are probably right insofar as there might be something like riding a llama up and down under a full moon for twenty minutes that works but all reasonable things (car journeys, rocking, dark room, white noise, feeds) don’t seem to work when he’s very highly wound - including bouncing on the exercise ball with baby in the sling. He really won’t tolerate being in the sling inside. And definitely not when sat down. That’s all well and good but I can’t walk for several hours a day and in any case it’s weather dependent - not great at the moment!

addler and others you’ve really helped. I think it is prioritising that first sleep and he’s asleep now so fingers crossed for a good day!

There you’ve found your answer - the usual things won’t work when he’s highly wound so you need to avoid him getting wound up
and overtired. I’m not saying it’s easy but it’s not impossible. Some babies need more sleep than the books say, some less. You’ll just need to watch and wait.

Yes and sometimes life happens doesn’t it, surely my baby isn’t the only one who just wakes up for absolutely no apparent reason? I honestly think you’re just being goady for no good reason and I’m not going to let myself get upset by it. Just now he woke up, don’t know why, wouldn’t go back to sleep so now am walking in the sling. I really, seriously am doing my best here.

@swallowinthesky is he breast or bottle fed? Sometimes when my LO wakes up too early for no reason, I can feed her back to sleep and she’ll have a really good nap. Sorry, that’s not much use if he doesn’t feed to sleep but works for us

The trick is to get ahead of the tiredness. So if you reckon he starts getting tired at 70min awake, start trying to get him to sleep at 50min. Babies can't sleep if there's something "wrong" (hungry, wet, uncomfy, tired!!) and they don't yet understand that the solution to tiredness is sleep! They just think they can't go to sleep because there's something wrong. So you need to get them to sleep before the tiredness really gets its teeth in. And keep trying all the different things, even the ones that don't work, because the little buggers change every day and something that enraged him yesterday might be a magic bullet by Monday.

Also, rather than routine, try and create more of a rhythm. Don't worry about the clock, don't worry about specific times, just try and establish an order to the day, so that your baby starts to get an idea of what is coming next. IE, i've had a nice walk outside with mummy, a lovely play on my mat, and I've had a feed, so now it must be sleepy time.

AND on top of that cut yourself a fucktonne of slack. This is SO HARD.