DS constant crying during the evenings - struggling to cope

[daisy86]

My DS is 12 weeks old. He’s been sleeping well at night, going into his cot at around 10.30pm and usually sleeping through until 5-6am. He also tends to have a morning nap of around 2-3 hours and is awake all afternoon.

However, during the evenings I’m really struggling. He will usually have his last feed at about 6pm but is so grumpy from then onwards. Tonight he’s been crying on and off for the last hour and won’t stop - it’s starting to really grate.

I try to put him down in his cot between 7-8pm but it just doesn’t work - he gets really fretful, cries and won’t sleep. If he does drop off he will wake 30 minutes later and won’t go back to sleep. I don’t have blackout blinds but he does sleep without them during the day, so I don’t think that’s the issue.

I know I’m lucky that he’s sleeping well at night but I have him all day and just need my evenings back. I thought it was meant to get easier at 12 weeks but if anything he’s getting harder to put down during the evenings!

I’m not willing to use a dummy and won’t be changing my mind on that. But if anyone has any other ideas I would love to hear them.

God I’m so crap at this. No you're not! Don't beat yourself up! I've still got the shakes and a nervous twitch from those early days with DS1... he's 18 now. Oh. my. god. It is soul destroyingly hard and there are no rules.

Do you have a vibrating chair? Am I sounding really old fashioned? Do people use them anymore? It was a godsend for us with all 3 of ours. The vibrating chair and some white noise like a fan really, really helped.

I would say your little one needs more sleep during the day. If mine was up at 6am i would give a nap around 10:30 for 2 hours and then 4 for 90 mins. It takes a while to create this new nap but it is doable. Took me about a week and a half and now my 11mo knows her nap time. Well done for getting yours to sleep for 8 hours though, mine would be awake every 2.

I've already replied on this thread about sleep, but actually I think @Twizbe has a very good point. It's common for children to have witching hours in the evening. I used to have to march around with DD to keep her happy, and apparently I was the same. Whilst I think it's worth trying more naps and feeds, don't beat yourself up if it doesn't help. He may just grow out of it.

So since my OP last night his schedule has been as follows:

9pm: feed
9.30pm-5am: sleep (7 hours 30 minutes)
5.15am: feed
6am-9.15am: sleep (3 hours 15 minutes)

And I’m just about to feed him again.

What time would you put him down for his next nap?

Also, stupid question - I should feed him right away now he’s woken, right? Even though he’s not crying? I’m so used to him being a newborn who would wake up and immediately cry for food that I’m a bit thrown when he no longer always does that.

I would say that first nap is too long and that maybe that is what is preventing further sleep, that and over-tiredness. At that age, I felt like I was just feeding, changing then putting him back to sleep again.

Wake him up after two hours and see if that helps.

So if he wakes at 5, then put him down at 6.30, wake him up at 8.30, down again at 10.00.

Sleeping through at 12 weeks is pretty great, as is getting him to sleep alone, so you're doing well. Don't beat yourself up. At 12 weeks, I had no idea what I was doing, at 6 months I feel like an expert! It gets so much easier.

Mine was refluxy too and I know how hard that can be.

Just to add that elevating the head of the bed is not considered good practice as it can encourage your baby to roll down the bed. I know some doctors recommend it, but it is not supported by evidence.

"Elevating the head of a baby's crib is not effective in reducing GER. It's also not safe as it increases the risk of the baby rolling to the foot of the bed or into a position that may cause serious of deadly breathing problems." www.healthychildren.org/English/tips-tools/ask-the-pediatrician/Pages/What-is-the-safest-sleep-solution-for-my-baby-with-reflux.aspx

"Also, stupid question - I should feed him right away now he’s woken, right? Even though he’s not crying? I’m so used to him being a newborn who would wake up and immediately cry for food that I’m a bit thrown when he no longer always does that."

Stop putting yourself down, how is it a stupid question?

Some people feed as soon as they wake up, some don't. I personally give it at least 15 minutes as I read that can stop them waking as early as they don't have the same association with waking and immediately eating.

"If mine was up at 6am i would give a nap around 10:30 for 2 hours and then 4 for 90 mins"

Even that is way too long for 12 weeks. 4 and a half hours at that age is a lifetime!

I always worked on the premise that once they were yawning they were already overtired.

You need to look for the cues before that - turning their head away is usually one.

If they’ve woken at 9.15 I’d be looking to put them down about 11am to 1pm then again from 3-4.30/5pm. Bed at 7am.

2 hrs awake is more than enough at that age! I would be starting a wind down routine for each nap about 15 mins before. I remember it being an endless cycle of sleep, wake, feed, sleep at that age. I would be careful of overstimulation too when awake too.

I agree that with a PP that the 6-9 sleep could be what’s causing some issues, as they are using it as an extension to their nighttime sleep. If they’d woken at 5.15/5.30am I would have gotten up and started my day and put them down again about 7/7.30am and take it from there.

OP- first off you are not a crap mum. As others have said they do not come with a manual. Sleep with babies is also really tricky- that is why there are so many books out there about it and all these products that say they can help when the truth is, each baby is different. You will also get lots of conflicting advice from these books, ‘sleep experts’ etc such as don’t do something as it will cause a bad sleep association or do anything you need to to facilitate sleep. It is confusing. I read loads and ended up feeling overwhelmed.
I’m not a sleep expert and your baby may be different to mine but here is what worked for me when my baby was 3-4 months old. He would go to bed about 7ish, wake for a feed around 1 then again about 5.30. I found he would sleep to 8.30 or 9 but this hindered his morning nap so I used to get him up at 7.30. After a few days of this it became his normal wake up time. Then I would get naps at 9.30 for an hour, 12.30 for 90 minutes and then again at 4 for 30 minutes. So I used about a 2 hour awake window.
I wonder if your baby is having a ‘long first nap’ due to night sleep running into day sleep rather than it being a true nap as that was what was happening with mine until I introduced waking him at 7.30.
A lot of his naps were on me or in the pram tbh or if he did nap in his cot they would be shorter. From what I have read Babies don’t connect sleep cycles well at this age so this is really common. I decided that I wanted to promote independent sleeping but also balance his need for a good nap so I used to do the first nap in the cot (most but not everyday) second on me and third in the pram. People talk about bad sleep associations but I’ve not found that to be a problem. He had a dummy but stopped using it himself around 6 months.
When he was 5 months (when lockdown started) I transitioned him to all naps in the cot, we dropped the third nap and lengthened the awake window. Now at 9 months old (and ever since he was 7 months old) he takes two long naps during the day. We use the 2-3-4 awake window pattern for this and it works really well. He has no negative sleep associations. Maybe I’ve been really lucky and like I said I’m not an expert but that what has worked for me so far. Good luck and hope it helps.

I'd have thought 45mins to 1.5 hours in the afternoon, depending on what time he's waking from his morning nap.

Certainly, at 12 weeks, DD was going down for a nap roughly every 2 hours. Some of those naps would be long and some would be short, but within 2 hours o waking up she was down again. She wouldn't LOOK tired at all - no signals - but if we took her upstairs and put her to bed she'd be out like a light. DS we always claimed didn't do that but in retrospect I think it's because he was our first and we didn't believe he needed that much sleep so we were half hearted about it and also we didn't do it quick enough - letting it stretch to 3 or 4 hours at a time.

So this is what it’s looking like now:

9pm: feed
9.30pm-5am: sleep (7 hours 30 minutes)
5.15am: feed
6am-9.15am: sleep (3 hours 15 minutes)
10.15am: feed
11.15am-11.45am: sleep (30 minutes)
2pm-2.30pm: sleep (30 minutes)
2.45pm: feed

Total sleep today (since midnight): 9 hours, 15 minutes.

The two most recent naps were whilst we were out in the pram. It’s good that he napped but 30 minutes per sleep seems like very little. I’m not sure when to put him down again now - perhaps around 4ish? I’ve actually got him in his cot at the moment but he’s showing no intention of napping. I’ve got to fit in at least another 4 hours and 45 minutes of sleep before midnight to get 14 hours today (which I read should be the minimum amount of sleep for this age).

Honestly OP, it sounds to me like he's basically sleeping 12 hours at night with a feed - it's just that those 12 hours are from 9-9. Which is pretty good going. If you're happy with that, then you just need to shift things around a bit more so I'd definitely be getting him another nap during the day. 30 minutes isn't quite enough - I think 40-45 is considered a full, helpful sleep cycle. If you want him to go to bed at 9ish, then the last sleep could be something like 16:30-17:15/18:00. Then three hours awake time before bed.

I found this book really helpful in terms of understanding how much a child should be sleeping/how long they should be awake for at a time.

Thanks @BlingLoving. He’s just had another awful crying episode, screaming blue murder for about 45 minutes. Luckily DH came home, put him in the sling and took him for a walk and he has apparently settled.

I thought things were meant to get easier at this stage, but DS seems to be getting more and more challenging. I’m not sure how much more I can take - it feels like there’s no escape sometimes.

I was wondering whether I should speak to my GP about it, but my local surgery is honestly terrible. Could it be worth looking into cranial osteopathy? He’s generally been a pretty good baby but like I say, seems to be getting worse!

Do you have a vibrating chair?

Yes I do - perhaps I should give that a go.

So at this age we followed this type of routine.
As they get a bit older they start to drop their afternoon nap first, then around weaning age they start to drop their morning nap and often you bring their lunch and nap forward a bit as they've tuckered themselves out. As they drop their morning nap you'll probably find they sleep a bit longer for their lunch time nap.
So here was our routine
7pm-7am night time sleep (with a feed/feeds during the night.
Morning feed around 9am
Nap 9-10
Play from 10-12
Bottle and then nap from 12-2
Wake and play
Feed and then afternoon nap from 4-5
Bottle and bed at 7
Typically my babies would be awake for around 2 hours, but much more would lead to overtired screaming babies. Overtiredness results in meltdowns, even as they get older and become toddlers and kids. So learning to prevent it and for us sticking to a strict routine allowed the girls to know what to expect when. It also makes nap time and bed times much easier ifollow the same routine each day because they naturally start getting tired at the right times if you follow it closely xx ta

I think he's hungry, looking at your schedule. His last feed is 6pm and he's going to bed around 9-9:30pm, is that right? And also, his feeds during the day are quite spread out. Forgive me if I have misunderstood. I'd try another feed before bed. It looks like he's going several hours between feeds. My guess is, he's hungry and is letting you know.

Thanks for sharing that.

DS has been asleep in the sling since 8pm with DH. So if he gets through to midnight he’ll have had 13 hours and 45 minutes of sleep today - 15 minutes less than the magic 14 hours. If he does manage that then I think that’s pretty good going - I just don’t understand why he was screaming so much this evening!

Because hes over tired and over stimulated. To be awake from 230 until 9 is too long at that age.

Hope tomorrow is better

I remember suddenly having two weeks of crying in the evenings, only in the evenings. It was so wearing. Once we got into a routine, bath, book, feed and bed, she settled.

Sorry if I missed it but are you BF? Both mine were cranky in the evening at that stage, despite napping well all day. I just fed them off and on through the evening. Classic evening cluster feeding.

I still think you are going too long between naps. DC2 is currently 7 months and still can hardly make it to two hours between naps.

So if he gets through to midnight he’ll have had 13 hours and 45 minutes of sleep today - 15 minutes less than the magic 14 hours

I actually think sleep total is the wrong way to look at it at such a young age. My baby is 16 weeks old and theres no way he can make it 3 hours of being awake. If he's very engaged in something he'll maybe make 2 hours, but thats rare. I think you should go by awake windows instead and not worry about the total amount of sleep.

I still think you are going too long between naps.

But if he simply won’t sleep after trying rocking, walk in the pram, sling and all other methods then what can I do?

I feel like everything has become a million times more stressful since I started worrying about this. I mean, he is sleeping very well at night - he’s been asleep since 8pm and it’s now 4am.

I’m just concerned that the lack of naps could be really affecting him in ways that I’m not even aware of.

I would definitely try feeding him again.

UNICEF baby friendly initiative has some good literature on responsive breast and bottle feeding, on their own PDFs.

12 weeks is too young to night wean.

12 weeks is too young to night wean.

I haven’t tried to wean him - he just happens to sleep well at night. Plus I didn’t think a three month old baby needs to be woken up for feeding - can anyone clarify?