Am desperate - considering GF. Argh!

[dinny]

Just had another crappy evening/night with ds (nearly 5`weeks). It's getting harder and harder to settle him by bfing every day. Really worried am making same mistakes I did with dd (never fell asleep by herself/months of colicky evening crying/knackered mummy and daddy).
Am I expecting too much too soon or should I really try for a routin of sorts? I did GF nap timings with dd from 6 months and she totally calmed down. DS just seems to get so so upset about falling asleep! Help!

'They' do say not to use CIO or other sleep training methods until they are 6 months.

Does he like sucking to settle him? What about a dummy? Or have you tried swaddling him?

It's not too early to try a routine - why dont' you try and follow GF feeding times, you don't have to do it to the minute but just use them as a rough guide. Your baby might respond to that by sleeping in more of a 'pattern'??

Def try a dummy if you not averse to that idea (don't understand why people are - I'd do anything if I wasn't getting any sleep!) and the suggestion of swaddling is a good one - mine have all slept better swaddled.

I don't know if I've just been lucky but all 3 of my ds's have settled into a routine quite early because I've more or less followed GF feed times (give or take half an hour!) but I'm not a rigid follower of the book (in dark, swaddled by 9AM AT THE LATEST!) - it's impossible when you've got other kids anyway. DS3 is 6 weeks today and has loosely followed the routine almost from week 1. My mother thinks I'm mad making him 'hold out' for feeds or 'waking him' for a feed but it works for me because I know where I'm up to and getting a decent night sleep every night!!!

Give it a try and good luck!!

dinny
i was at that stage just wks ago and its passsed. try the routine times, but if he falls asleep before dont get upset, it will sort out, he will go longer and settle. i really thought it was awful with my ds too.i have been harder on him than i was on dd , and thats becuase i know the cries and what they mean so try to strectch his feeding out and get someone to take him for a walk (if u have someone), if u cant get out because of dd. i am lucky my dd goes to bed every day at noon for her nap so i get 2hrs, today ds has gone at the same time, so dont get too upset, it will settle.

i wrote out the gf routine stuck it to the pinboard and look at every now and again to see if i'm kinda there, i do the top & tailing in the morn and the bath or dh, and it helps to strectch him out feed wise. its exhausting but i think its worth it.

having a really bad day - he cries so much when he is tired. have had to let him cry for a bit in his basket as he is driving me bonkers - can't settle him by bfing/sling - and have just got back from mammoth walk since this am. getting really down about it at the moment. think will try gf timings tomorrow - hermykyne and skate - do you do gf's expressing in the morning?

Dinny - oh, sorry you sound like you are exhausted and frustrated. It's so hard I know.

I don't breastfeed so, no I don't do any expressing! I have to say, bottle feeding does seem to make finding a routine easier though obviously I'm not suggesting for one moment that it's a solution for you.

Def try tomorrow to follow the general feeding times - originally I was missing out GF's 5.15 'half feed' and trying to stretch him out to 6.30 or 7pm for a full feed but it just made that evening part a complete nightmare with him screaming while I was trying to do ds1 and ds2 tea/bath. Plus, he'd cry so much by the time I got to 7pm he'd fall asleep straight away on the bottle and I couldnt' get him to take more than 1oz. Now I do give him 2oz at 5.15 to 5.30 and the rest at 7pm and it's much better.

For sleeping are you swaddling and putting him in the dark?

Message withdrawn

Skate, have tried swaddling but think have been mistiming it. Do you leave hands free? How do you do it? Can't believe I am in such a state again - promised self after the nightmare we had with dd I'd be strict this time. But just can't seem to get it together. How the hell do I do a quiet feed in bedroom before putting ds to bed with my toddler around? Can't keep her out on her own. God, this is making me so ridicuously upset.

Dinny, this sounds very like my experience with DS3! He was getting to the end of every day too exhausted to settle and sleep.

I did a sort of Gina-lite routine for a couple of weeks and it really did help. However, as I posted before, my DS3 would fall asleep if I held him close to my chest and cuddled him (providing he was not already overtired) - how would you get your DS off to sleep in order to have him nap at the suggested Gina times, iyswim?

Dunno, Dino - bf-ing him isn't the answer as it's not really working. Suppose would leave him for 5 mins, go to him, reassure, leave and repeat. Not really happy doing that but can't go on - I've been in tears all day literally.

Much sympathy, Dinny, it is horrible and I was feeling pretty low at the same stage.

Do try either Gina or the Baby Whisperer (some of the mums on the July/August thread speak very highly of her) because at least it will make you feel like you're back in control again and doing something. The essence of both of them is that baby should wake up, then feed, then play, then sleep again no more than two hours after he last woke up. Having done our Gina lite routine for a couple of weeks, DS3 now seems to have settled into this fairly easily. Good luck, it will get better very soon, honest.

Don't leave arms out of swaddle - strap them in!! Put the blanket out on the bed. Lie the baby on the blanket with the top at his neck - wrap one side right over him 'strapping' one arm in, then bring the other side over the other way strapping the other side in and wrap the blanket under him so it's tight and he can't get his arms out! Hope this makes sense!

Re: doing quiet feed. What I do (if dh is not here to keep ds1 and ds2 out of the way) is get ds1 and ds2 ready for bed and bring them downstairs with me and settle them (ish!) with milk and books. Then I make it really dim in the lounge, so just a lamp on so it's more calming and feed ds3 in there. He doesn't fall asleep on the bottle so I take him up to his basket, swaddle him (or swaddle him half way through the feed so he's already 'ready for bed' as he's taking his last bit of milk) and put in his basket awake but in the dark.

Definitely, definitely try and stick to GF times tomorrow, at least for feeding - let me know how it goes!

Will do, Skate and Dinosaur. Have to, even for the sake of my nipples - ds is chewing them 24/7 at the moment.

Hi Dinny

I have also been trying to stick to feed times - some days go really well and we get there and others are a bit up & down and we start late/early. I am not stressing about it at all though - I find that as long as he has had a good number of feeds in the day and has been awake for over an hour before bedtime he generally settles well.

One thing - swaddling is wonderous. Tate gets so worked up when he is overtired - he doesn't cry but breathes frantically and flails about. The minute he is swaddled and in a dim environment he calms down. DH initially thought I was cruel because he was swaddled so tightly (defo keep the arms in ) but he has now seen that it really does work and is a pro at doing it himself.

We are consistently having nights now where Tate feeds only once between 11pm and 7am so not too bad.

Good luck and let us know how you get on

I am a Gina fan, however two things stuck me in your post. First, you say he is 5 weeks. Classic growth spurt time is 6 weeks. However, my ds2 always seems to have his a week early to what the books say. Could your ds being having one which would make him more unsettled and also more hungry?

Second thing is that I wonder if he is overtired which is making it harder for him to fall asleep. Even with following the routines with ds2, he could not stay awake for the time she said. I needed to put him to bed much much earlier at that age than the routines say. If I didn't, I also ened up with screaming baby that would not be settleed, even in slings. My ds2 is now 17 weeks and I am finding that I keep the routines looely in my head, but do not really follow them. INstead, I follow her advice with not more than 2 hours between sleeps (at 5 weeks I was lucky if it was 30 minutes) and feeds at roughly 3 hoursly intervals. (I bf too). It really sounds to me like you have an overtired baby.

HTH

Ilana, he's been this unsettled since day one - worse around 3 weeks. I agree he is totally overtired - he just cannot settle himself to sleep. Has only just started dropping off in the car/buggy (after screaming for at least 20 mins beforehand). Sleeps so little in the day. What should I do? Start GF naps? Do I let him cry hinself to sleep? It's got to the point where everything we do is making him worse and more upset/tired. Feel so awful for him (also think he's getting colicky as I keep feeding him to try and comfort him/get him to sleep for a little while).

What's he doing now Dinny?

I bathed him at 6.15, feed and bed (in Moses basket in our room in dark, swaddled - for the FIRST time in his life). I have been to him three times since - once for a cuddle when he wke after 10 mins, then nappy change and just been back as he wnted food (didn't do gf feeds today so following his lead still for milk). he's just gone quiet after 15 mins crying (not screaming tho). resisting urge to check him until he has chance to get into deep sleep. feel so bad for letting him get so overtired and hysterical.

Dinny, do you watch carefully for signs that he is tired? SOmetimes, even by the first yawn it is too late. I found in the very early weeks that ds could only stay asleep long enough after feeds for a nappy change and a tiny bit of stimulation (Like 5-10 minutes max) before needing sleep again. You say he sleeps very little during the day. Could you try puttting him to sleep at really regular intervals? You mentioned slings. If you put him in a sling immediately after feeding/nappy changing and then went about you house hold duties, you may find he just falls asleep. If you wait to put him in the sling until you think he needs a sleep, he may be too tired. I find with my ds2 that he will drift off in the sling if he is not over tired. Once he is overtired, I will have to walk the floor for 30 minutes with him crying and struggling before he finally gives in. I use a dummy with my ds2 also. Ds1 found his thumb at 9 weeks, but ds2 hasn't. IN the early weeks I needed to really help him hold it in his mouth, but if he is in a sling then this would be easier. I don't think that necessarily trying to go straight on to GF nap times will help (and I am pro Gina). I think you need to start reading his sleep signs and working out how long he can manage to be awake before overtired and then help him to sleep (by feeds, dummy , sling, whatever) before he gets over tired. Once you have a little routine and idea of how long he can stay awake, then you can start thinking more solid routines I think. Just my opinion of course, but I hope it helps.

Dinny - hurrah for the swaddle!! You're right I think to follow him for feeds tonight but try and start with the first full feed at 7am tomorrow and go from there. Could you use a dummy tonight to try and get him ready - ie if you need to stretch him out a bit before 7am?

If he's not used to it he'll keep spitting it out but you just have to gently hold it in! It'll be painful to stretch him at first but it will be worth it!

Speak to you tomorrow.

BTW, don't feel bad about anything. Everything you are doing now is going to benefit both you and he - he'll soon be a 'contented little baby' - hopefully !!

He's just woken again - dh gone to try and settle him. he can't stay asleep for more than 10 mins (unless in bed with me next to my boob)

Did he have a full feed at 6.15??

When he woke just then, did you leave him a bit? Is he out of his swaddle?

Listen to me, I'm like the bloody oracle and I'm so not!

no, he's been snacking all day (as usual). he was still swaddled when dh went to him and checked his nappy just then. he's crying now. feel awful as he just wants to be in bed with mummy. am on verge of going to get him and get into bed...

If it helps him to sleep to lie next to you, do it - but keep him in his swaddle so he gets used to that and try not to let him 'snack' his way through the night. Ideally you want him to be really hungry by 2-2.30am so he feeds well and then not feed again by 7am so he feeds well.

Ah, bless his little cotton socks. Go and lie with him if he wants his mummy .

I'm off to take him into bed. thanks for helping - will be putting him down for naps tomororw if I can. D x