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Original poster

Were we too harsh?

124 replies

nervousmummy · 15/08/2007 11:40

I would really appreciate some opinions on this, I am a bit worried that we have been too harsh with my DD.

The scenario:

Yesterday we had some friends round for a playdate. The kids were all playing upstairs, 2 5 yo and 2 nearly 4yo. We heard a loud bang, so shot upstairs, the towel rail had been torn off the wall in the bathroom.

I was livid, the kids all blamed the nearly 4yo boy, and said that the rest of them were in the bedroom. This was obviously not true, they had all been in the bathroom.

When DP came home and the playdate had left, we questioned both DDs again. They both stuck to their stories.

When we asked thenm again this morning, DD1 confessed that they had all been messing about in the bathroom, and that both the boy and DD2 had swung on the rail and broke it. When we asked DD2 again, she continued to lie.

So as DD1 finally told the truth, she got privileges revoked for a week (no TV, sweets etc but is allowed biscuits as a treat) but as DD2 had continued to lie, she has been put in her room for the day, and has her privileges revoked for a week as well.

Is this too harsh?

OP posts:

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HonoriaGlossop · 15/08/2007 12:51

I'm glad that you've realised this was way too harsh nervousm...

I think your anxiety about getting their behaviour 'sorted' is making you leap on things way, way too harshly. I agree that all this will do (apart from chipping away at the trust the children have in you) is back the children into a corner where they will be more defiant and lie more, because they of course want to avoid the wrath descending on them.

Your children are very very young and their behaviour WILL be silly, bad and annoying at times. I think it would really help for you and dp to lighten up your expectations of them.

I think consequences need to be much more immediate and related to the problem. Perhaps something like immediately ending the playdate, and then giving them both time out for a FEW minutes (not all day!). It doesn't matter who did what really, you don't need to go into it. They were both up there, they both get the same deal. This gets you out of endless negotiations with them about who is lying and who is telling the truth.

Again, it's expectations that you need to change; ALL children would have lied, put in that same position. It's the refuge of the powerless when in a situation they can't control.

So this issue I think has been blown way too large. You get cross, they get told off, they lose their playdate, they have time out. End of story.

And I agree, you don't need to be running these decisions by your DP; you are in charge at home while he is not there to discuss with.

LittleBella · 15/08/2007 12:51

Well Tanya Byron may be doing more harm than good, but the proof is generally in the pudding - when she goes round to the house, the kids are a nightmare, when she leaves, they're normal.

Of course, there could be a backlog of films stuck in the BBC archives with numerous cases which show her doing more harm than good, but I doubt it.

LittleBella · 15/08/2007 12:53

Why thank you WT, I doubt if my DS would agree with you!

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Families General parenting

beansprout · 15/08/2007 12:55

I really can't see how Tanya Byron's methods are harmful?!!

PellMell · 15/08/2007 12:56

Parenting is not a one size fits all occupation.
Some children will revel in 5 minutes sitting alone and act up in order to get that type of attention.
Some will be only too happy to go up to their rooms for a morning
Some would be mortified at even the idea of the door between mummy and themselves being pushed too (as with my dd)
We should be our own judges and if it feels like too harsh a punishment then it probably is.
I wish we could get back some confidence to tweak our style as we learn. Its all a learning curve and that is fine.We are allowed to make mistakes and we all do it.

HonoriaGlossop · 15/08/2007 13:00

Yes, meant to add that I agree with wanderingtrolley; this wasn't EVEN naughtiness, really; silly, yes, but these are very young children to whom things on the wall, are things on the wall! They don't know that they might pull off.

Unless they'd been warned before and deliberately gone ahead, it wasn't even naughty behaviour; just childish.

Sometimes parents get so hung up on punishments and consequences when there are other powerful ways of doing it; but it relies on TRUSTING your kids which some people just can't seem to do.

For example I broke a perfume bottle of my mum's once, I was about four. I dropped it in the sink because I'd been playing around with it. My mum's response was to give me a hug and kiss! She said something like "oh, dear you must feel AWFUL, but don't worry. it was an accident". I've always remembered it. I think it was so clever of her. Even with me being SO young, she trusted me that this was not me turning into a naughty girl; by dealing with it that way she showed me that she felt I was thoughtful and sensitive and would care about damaging other people's things. She trusted me that I knew I shouldn't have been playing with it and that I was feeling bad about that.

Her response made me think she was the most heavenly, kindest creature on the planet! But it didn't stop me knowing that I shouldn't have played with it. And I didn't do it again!

LittleBella · 15/08/2007 13:03

Lovely story HG.

I'll try and remember it next time DD trashes my make up!

ELF1981 · 15/08/2007 13:07

I have very vivid memories of being told off when I was a child including being threatened to live at the naughty girls home when I was bad. Once my dad actually put stuff in a black bag and threatened to take me, and I remember sobbing my heart out.

I used to get sent to bed straight after school for not eating my dinner (as I would always admit that I didnt but still ended up punished, and dad would take me to my room, shut the curtains etc and I'd just have to lie there).

I remember me and my older sister panicking when my younger sister got a pencil stuck sideways in her mouth because we didn't dare tell my parents in case we got in trouble.

I lived with a bloody crystal up my nose for a good few years because I didn't dare tell my parents I'd got one stuck up there because they'd told me off for playing with them in the first place.

I'm not sure how I am going to dicipline my daughter when she is older, its a fine line between letting them get away with too much, and being too harsh... expect me back in a few years asking for advice!!

Nervousmummy - I agree that your children should not have lied, but if they are lying because they're scared of what will happen if they tell the truth, that's a bit different. Please do not worry about letting your daughter out of the room before you speak to your partner, he probably feels the same as you!

PellMell · 15/08/2007 13:08

Thats really nice

Flum · 15/08/2007 13:11

Poor you nervousmummy. It is horrible when you make a decision and then question it.

Regarding the jane Eyre somments etc. I think it is quite tough to be put in your room for a day but really it is not a prison cell, I expect she has some toys and books to look at.

If you lived in a small flat their whole life woud be liek being shut in a room. I don't think it is that bad, and it seems she is learning the lesson from it isn;t she.

SweetyDarling · 15/08/2007 13:12

PellMell, agree that these guidelines need to be adjusted to suit each individual child, but this post shows why guidelines are helpful at least as a starting point.

tracyk · 15/08/2007 13:14

I'm sorry - I would not have let children that young play alone upstairs long enough to get into that kind of trouble. Surely you would check on them every 5 mins or so? Just because they are playing together doesn't mean you aren't there to supervise them.
My friend does this all the time with her 5 and 7 yo - which is fine but when my 3.5 yo is playing with them - I expect a certain level of supervision. Mainly cos my ds ends up hurting the 5yo as he's not got as good co-ordination with swords and guns etc!

Blu · 15/08/2007 13:14

HG - that story has brought tears to my eyes.

I will remember it and use it as my inspiration when dealimg with DS.

We do get sidetracked by our own exasperation and fail to see things through our children's eyes sometimes.

FrannyandZooey · 15/08/2007 13:15

Let her out! I'm not surprised they lie when you ask them what happened, if they get punishments like this

LittleBella · 15/08/2007 13:16

I think they do adjust to each individual child don't they? They just give you 2 basic principles (praise the good, ignore the bad and remember always who is the adult and who is the child) and then everything else is ideas of what might work, dump it if it doesn't work for you (I could never be doing with pasta jars, for example).

ELF1981 · 15/08/2007 13:17

DD dropped a drawer on my foot the other week (total accident) but it hurt that much I lay on the bed in pain, almost crying. DH said to DD that he knew it was an accident but she had hurt me. She leant over the bed, patted me on the head and said "Sorry mummy" and gave me a kiss. The other day, she was kicking DH's seat when in the car, he told her to stop and so she crossed her legs sayign "sorry daddy" for the rest of the road. Where she has learnt this (at 22 months), I dont know!!

WanderingTrolley · 15/08/2007 13:18

Elf's post brought tears of laughter to my eyes.

I'm now going to the inappropriate laughter thread.

Very sorry Elf - fwiw my parents were overly harsh too. Once, I knackered something very expensive and managed to cover it up, burning myself in the process. I still have the scar. My mother never knew it was me so I didn't get roared at, phew.

FLIER · 15/08/2007 13:19

There is the saying "Children learn what they live" and it is so, so true.

ELF1981 · 15/08/2007 13:20

WT - was it the bit out the crystal?!!

FLIER · 15/08/2007 13:20

loved your post, HG. Will also remember this when needed.

CatIsSleepy · 15/08/2007 13:22

Elf you made me laugh too...
sometimes the anticipation of being punished can be worse than the actual punishment!
i remember that from when I was little...

ELF1981 · 15/08/2007 13:25

Oh, and on Bonfire night, dad said we couldn't watch them if we didn't eat all our dinner, I only ate half so they said I could only watch from one eye, so I sat all night with one eye covered watching the fireworks. Dad still LOL's when he remembers me knocking on the window asking if I could change which eye I was looking out of!

SweetyDarling · 15/08/2007 13:27

My sister came home from school with a gumnut (in Aus) stuffed up her nose. There was a huge lump, but she kept denying she had put anything up there.
I still bring it up when I think she's talking crap - "Is that a gumnut up your nose DS?" ROFL
She wasn't telling a lie to be naughty, rather because she didn't want there to be a gumnut up her nose! It's like wishing away something bad.
How you getting on NM?

PellMell · 15/08/2007 13:29

sweetydarling.
I actually do agree with you .I understand what you are saying

HonoriaGlossop · 15/08/2007 13:31

wow, thanks blu and others who liked that story. I've certainly always remembered it. My mum is a gem

It's what's always made me remember to trust children. They have all the same feelings as us, even the noble and profound ones, and we should credit them with that I think.

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