So, serious question, at what age is it OK to leave a child in the car alone while you go shopping?

[ViciousSquirrelSpotter]

DS hates hates hates shopping, with a passion. Every single time we go shopping, he wants to stay in the car and read his book. And I refuse, and he argues that he's eight, but I argue that he's out of sight, I can't see him and I don't know exactly how long I'll be, so he has to come with me.

So, when should I agree? At what age would I not be considered an irresponsible neglectful parent?

I am just not happy about leaving him at the moment. Not for any rational reason at all. He's not irresponsible, he's not going to release the hand-brake, he'll stay in the car and read and not be lonely or scared. I think that part of responsible parenting is about swallowing your fear and allowing your children independence and I don't feel able to do that. Partly because I'm slightly neurotic and partly because I fear that I'll be condemned by the string 'em high brigade for being lazy and irresponsible. For me, leaving my child would not be lazy and irresponsible parenting, on the contrary I'm slightly uneasy that I'm being lazy about insisting he comes with me (it saves me from being anxious about him all the way round the aisles), it would be a terrifying leap of faith which I am dreading doing but know I must at some point if I'm not going to be a neurotic loon.

So what does the mumsnet jury think? What age? And how long for?

I get meat from butcher ( mostly)
and a fruit and veg box

but when I have ordered some more fruut and veg, it's always been fine, fresh with no yucky bits - have to say tesco customer service have been really great --

i can't say when i will feel it's ok, as i've not got there yet, but certainly NOT pre-schoolers and not for a bit over that IMO and depends on legth of time and whether or not child is familiar with surroundings/how street wise/how obedient (lol) etc etc.

my pre-schoolers already say pls can i stay in the car, i don't want/like to come out shopping and give me 100 reasons why it would be ok to leave them, i get wails but they always come with me (apart from for paying for petrol and yes i know they are left over a big tank of petrol) but...

I'm going to report you all I think I did read the posts. A lot of people have said an age is fine and then they may clarify that it depends on the child but the first impulse is to mention the age they think is fine. The mother of the 3 yr old thinks it's fine for her kid and I suspect she would say he is fine crossing roads to the park.

I think 3 is much too young tbh.

OK I know I don't know the child concerned, and every child is an individual and 8 year olds 30 years ago were allowed to do many many more things than our 8 year olds, but I think there are some developmental stages common to all children.

I do think it depends on the culture you're living in as well. Our parents allowed us more freedom, because they trusted that other adults in the community would look out for us if we got into trouble. If we looked unsure about crossing the road, an adult would approach us and offer to take our hand and help. We no longer trust to the wider community to look out for our children, so we don't feel as free to allow them out into the world. That three year old may be less safe than s/he would have been 30 years ago because we feel an adult is less likely to intervene now.

How justified that perception is, I don't know. If I see a child alone, looking lost or uncertain, I would intervene if I thought s/he needed help, and most people I know say they would too. The other day we were in a shop and a child was calling "mummy! mummy!" and two women immediately turned round and said: "have you lost your mummy?" with immediate concern. But perhaps that's because it was the Disney shop, so the customers are more likely to feel protective of children - perhaps the child wouldn't have had instant concern in Morrisons, I don't know.

Squirrel you hit it on the head there I think. I live in the Highlands in a very small town and an even smaller community and I know that as dd grows up she will have a heck of a lot more freedom thatn she would and in fact than I did growing up in the city, I know she can go and play in the park across the road one day by herself because we stay in a place that there are lots of children and lots of front doors wide open in the summer facing onto the park. Everyone still looks out for everyone else here but coming from the city I am very aware of how different it is I know far more people in this town that live 20 minutes walk away on the other side than I did my neighbours a few doors up.

I think the same applies to adults also though my dad is an engineer and used to travel a lot and him and his colleagues were wary of asking directions from women and would rather not have to.

People are too frightened of approaching children now and that is a shame too often adults who do help a lost child are not thanked for their efforts as there is so much in the media now about horrible things happening that everyone is viewed with suspicion.

agree with last 2 posts

I don't think it's entirely about age. I think it's about when are they are ready to deal with a problem/difficulty that might come up. Likely problem that is. I don't mean every parent's worst fear or anything like that.

i've left my ds from newborn if i've only got to get a few things and wouldn't be longer than 10 mins.

i might leave him for 15 mins but only if it was a real emergency.

Can't think of any 'real emergency' that would warrant not taking a newborn or toddler or young child with you when you leave the car

neither can i but if there was one then i would be ok with an extra 5 minutes to what i normally think is ok.

Not an emergency, but when DS3 was 3-4 months old, (other boys were 2 and 4) we had MIL in a hospice and my mam on a cancer ward, both dying.

In amongst the melee of the schoolrun, meals and life in general, I would often drop DH off at the hospice and nip up to see my mother, or do some mundane task.

Upon collecting him, I would go to pick him up, but he wouldn't know what time I was going to pick him up, so I used to have park up, go in and sign in, then go and get him. And would sometimes leave them in the car.

I daresay there was a better way of arranging things, but given the circumstnaces it was the best I could do at the time.

If you have to ask, perhaps in your heart you don't think the child is ready yet? Not sure what age I would leave DD1 - it was never for a huge shop, but midweek would need to top-up and it was easiest to pick her up from school on my way back from work then go to supermarket on way home. She was probably around 8 or so - she was old enough to use a mobile phone (I'd leave mine with her) and know how to lock/unlock the car from the inside. It would be a big supermarket car park, so less risk than main roads if she needed to get out for some reason (OK same stupid drivers but slower speeds in general!)

What do people think about leaving a sleeping baby whilst you pay for petrol? Car is in full view of you, but will that mad arsonist walk past with a box of matches at just the moment you are in the shop? Or turning your head away whilst at the counter paying for something - if you take one hand off the buggy will a baby-snatcher appear? It's so easy to think that disaster is around every corner, but in general life is pretty safe if you have your eyes open (unless you live in Holby of course...)

Well on the back of the beginning part of this thread DS1 got left alone at home this afternoon. I realised that it was pretty daft to be happy leaving him in the car for 10/15 minutes, but then be wary of leaving him at home which is far safer and he has access to the phone etc.

He was sent home from school this afternoon because he was sick, so I didn't really want to take him out in a stuffy car to pick up DS2 - he was given a choice and chose to stay home with the TV and a bowl. I was gone 1/2 hr, had kittens that he was going to get nervous, but he was fine

How old is he Serenity?

And is he feeling any better?

i think serenity said further down who boys were 7 and 9.

her boys

Cheers. (I knew, as I posted, I could have scrolled down, lol)

He's 9 (yr4), and he still feels a bit rough (stomach cramps and a sore throat) but is Ok in himself (wouldn't have left him if he'd been really go-to-the-doctors ill) He'll have to stay off tomorrow, but we'll see about friday (have to check if it's a 24 or 48hr 'exclusion' for throwing up in the classroom!)

Thanks for asking

Housemum - I don't think it's him that's not ready tbh, I think it's me!

A bit OTT maybe, but -

www.childrenslegalcentre.com/Templates/Topic.asp ?NodeID=90323

This link recomends that children should be approx 13 years old (give or take a year)tbefore they are left alone, unsupervised...This implies car or home to me.

'Surprisingly enough it is not against the law in the UK to leave children on their own in the home nor is there a minimum age requirement for babysitters but the downside to this is that parents be charged with 'wilful neglect' or considered 'negligent' if any harm should come to the children while they are home alone, or when they are in the charge of a babysitter who is under 16'.
This quote from

www.familyrapp.com/Results/archive_results_de tails.asp?ArticleID=221

How bizarre.

It really isn't consistent with allowing your child to go to secondary school on their own, is it?

At about that age, in the early 1970s, I used to walk home from school by myself - about a mile. & I would play outside unsupervised. Just what do critics of the OP think is going to happen? If he locks the car from the inside & he hasn't got a box of matches &, more importantly, he WANTS to sit quietly & read, then not a lot, frankly.

its not something i would consider doing myself. i wouldnt call it irresponsible though.

Lots of mixed messages eh Squirrel?

At 10 you can be held criminally responsible for your actions.

At 14 in the eyes of the law you can be treated as an adult. Steep learning curve there then after only being allowed to be left alone at 13.

dd signed her own surgical consent form at 12 but apparently can't be trusted in the house whilst I go the shop for 15 minutes.

LOL

Gosh, at 12 they're allowed to sign their own surgical consent form?

Blimey.