Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Parenting

For free parenting resources please check out the Early Years Alliance's Family Corner.

Flip

1 2 3 4

Original poster

Friend's baby being taken into care - need advice

93 replies

cornflakegirl · 22/04/2007 15:44

My friend is 21 and has a 3mo daughter. My friend has a lowish IQ (83) and has been living in an assessment unit since her daughter was born.

Her family and friends think that she is doing really well. She's keeping herself and her daughter clean, fed and happy. She is clearly totally in love with her daughter, and her dd seems very contented, growing well etc.

Her time in the unit is up this week, and social services are applying for a court order to take her dd into care when she leaves the unit. This seems to be based on an unreasonably high expectation of my friend's performance as a mother.

For example, they claim that her dd isn't bonded with her because her dd doesn't maintain constant eye contact with her while feeding.

I, perhaps naively, expected SS to help my friend to be a "good enough" mother, and believed that keeping a baby with it's mother was paramount unless there was a real danger of neglect (or abuse, which isn't a factor here).

My friend has a solicitor who seems to be good, but her family and friends are at a loss to know how best to help her keep her baby. Can anyone help?

OP posts:

fireflyfairy2 · 22/04/2007 15:52

Does your friend love alone?

I remember a girl I used to work with, she would be known as a bit "slow" [for want of a better word] She fell pregnant & when the baby was born she was worried social services would take her little boy from her.

She had great support from her family, she moved back in with her father & ss visited regularily.

Her ds is 10 now & they are still together.

You need to do whatever is possible to keep her little family together

Original poster

cornflakegirl · 22/04/2007 16:03

fff - she's living in a self-contained flat in a supported unit, with regular observations by staff.

she was living at home before - 5 adults in a 4 bedroom house. there physically wasn't room in her bedroom for a cot. but her family are very supportive.

we really believed that ss would help her cope, just like for your friend. i don't know why they want to take her dd away

OP posts:

MrsMuddle · 22/04/2007 16:14

Cornflake Girl, are you in Scotland or England/Wales? If you are in Scotland contact Enable and if you are in E/W, contact Mencap - both organisations that specialise in supporting people with learning diabilities to lead a normal life, including the right to bring up their own children. I can't remember the statistics, but people wth learning disabilities are something like 200 times more likely to have their children taken into care by SS. There's a big move against this by organisations like Mencap and Enable, as it's a violation of people's basic human rights. Both these organisations have an information line, and you'll get valuable advice. It may be that your friend just needs a bit more support. Please contact them as soon as possible.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Families General parenting

Original poster

cornflakegirl · 22/04/2007 16:19

MrsMuddle - thanks for that - in England so will contact Mencap. Really appreciate the advice!

OP posts:

lisad123 · 22/04/2007 16:25

Its sad but true that iq levels are used a predictior of whether you will manage as a parent and your child's ever changng needs. The fact that SS tried the supportive living first shows they have attempted to keep mum and child together but maybe the assessment has shown she cant do unsupported and on her own.
Family and friends can apply to have the child with them instead of fostercare.
Hope that helps
L

singingmum · 22/04/2007 16:28

Is her solicitor fighting them.I didn't think not bonding with a small baby was a reason to remove child from mum.If she has done a good job of looking after baby and self I really don't think they have a case.3 month olds rarely keep eye contact with parents while feeding.I hope her solicitor does something as their argument seems awfully groundless.The poor woman

singingmum · 22/04/2007 16:32

SS tried this one with my cousin who had twins.She hasn't got IQ prob though she is not very good at such things as reading etc, they just claimed that as a single mum she had not been able to bond with the twins.Her solicitor fought them and she still has the twins who are now 1.8yrs old.
I find SS reasoning a little ridiculous, my cousin does an amazing job.Her 2 are already talking and walking even though they were prem babies

Original poster

cornflakegirl · 22/04/2007 18:44

I do have some concerns about safety stuff - for instance she doesn't seem to realise that the car seat harness needs to be done up tight to keep her daughter safe.

But SS seem to be focusing on my friend's attention span, and whether she looks at her dd enough and stuff. And I remember when my son was 3mo, and it was really hard trying to chat to a baby who couldn't talk back. I loved him, but he was quite dull! So I really don't know what they're expecting of my friend...

But I am aware that there may be things that SS have picked up on that I don't know about. I just don't want to naively trust that they're doing the right thing. Because that was what I assumed at the start, and now it doesn't feel like they are...

OP posts:

lissielou · 22/04/2007 18:49

oh how sad, no advice but

stargate · 22/04/2007 19:46

has she lived in the supported living flat with the child? if not, then i would want to know whether they could accomodate the additional support your friend is going to need. I'd also be finding outing what other support could be given- eg homestart

her IQ will make a difference to what services are available to her - where I am she would be classed as a vulnerable adult and therefore will not get access to LD nhs services (determined by IQ as less than 70) but it some areas they may involved LD community teams to support.

does your friend want to be a mum? yes - then she has to instruct (or a responsible adult on her behalf) to demonstrate how she can achieve this and what support is available now (friends; family; voluntary agencies)

MorocconOil · 22/04/2007 21:41

Are you sure the court order is to take the baby into care? It could be a court order to allow social services to supervise your friend's care of the baby whilst further work is undertaken by social services. It seems unlikely that the baby would be removed purely due to lack of bonding based on eye contact. If this is the only concern then some intense work should be undertaken to encourage attachment and bonding between mother and baby.

Original poster

cornflakegirl · 22/04/2007 21:48

Stargate - the unit she's in is a child protection assessment unit. I'm not sure my friend was aware of this before she went in - the way she described it to us was as a mother and baby unit where they'd help her learn to take care of her baby and live independently. Which I think they do to an extent - but there's a much bigger focus on observing her with her dd.

She only has a three month place in the unit, which is up this week. I don't think she's been offered extra time there (from what I understand, a place there is extremely expensive).

The vulnerable adult thing sounds right - that's definitely a term that SS have used to describe her. I don't really know what that means in terms of the level of help they think she needs though.

Can you tell me more about demonstrating that she can achieve being a mum, please?

OP posts:

Original poster

cornflakegirl · 22/04/2007 21:51

Mimizan - yes, fairly sure, although my information is second / third hand. It seems strange to me too that they would do this. I'm planning to call her social worker tomorrow, to see if she'll talk to me - I'd like to find out if there's more to it that I'm not aware of.

OP posts:

wannaBeWhateverIWannaBe · 22/04/2007 21:52

It does sound as if she has been given support by ss to try and make things work though. Does she have a family member who would be prepared to take the baby? As far as I?m aware ss do try and keep children within the family where possible, eg if parent is not considered to be capable then they will firstly look to place a child with another member of the family.

Sadly loving a baby isn?t always considered to be enough. This happened to a girl who used to go to a couple of the toddler groups I went to. She had learning difficulties, and her dd was about two months younger than my ds, but developmentally she was way way behind. And although the mum obviously loved her, she didn?t interact with her in the same way you or I would, she apparently didn?t make eye contact with her, and although she did talk to her and would pick her up and cuddle her etc, she seemed to lack emotion. I never thought anything of it, each to their own and all that, but then one day I met her out in the park and she told me her dd had been taken away from her.

A friend of mine worked for the local doctors surgery so I asked her about it, and although she wasn?t able to give me many details, she did say that the decision was made in the best interests of the child, because the way the mum was with her was actually affecting her development, and that since she had been taken away, her development had come on considerably and she was now level with her age group. She had been taken to live with a member of her family though, so although her mum wasn?t considered to be fit to bring her up herself, she did have access to her iyswim.

If your friend struggles with independent living, and struggles with basic concepts like safety, then it?s possible that ss think that it?s in the child?s best interests that she live with someone who has a better understanding, and better ability to grasp these things. Would certainly enquire whether your friend could perhaps stay with another adult who could give the support she needs, or whether the baby can be looked after by a member of the family if she?s not considered to be capable of looking after her.

MorocconOil · 22/04/2007 22:00

It sounds like there could be some pressure around the funding/availability of the placement. Unless the assessment is so completely negative and the baby at risk of significant harm in your friend's care you would hope they would give them more time to bond.
Good luck with the social worker.

fishie · 22/04/2007 22:17

i know someone this happened to, she had asked ss for help with her three children and was worried about her husband not coping - both parents have learning diffs. but ss applied for court order on very flimsy gounds and they were all taken into care. i wish we'd known about mencap, at the time there seemed to be very little we could do about it.

stargate · 22/04/2007 22:26

she will have learnt loads regards babycare in the centre but looking further ahead how will she deal with behaviour, weaning, finding playgroups, school etc. then theres the whole aspect of looking after herself and then putting a baby into the equation. this is where support comes in - how much ss is involved, voluntary agencies, health services as well as friends and family.

i would suggest that the description she gave you of the unit is how it was explained to her, in order that she went.

theres a family with a dd in my dd's nursery class. i'm pretty sure that they've probably been there but they are still together, the children are well loved and cared for although the parents have difficulty in looking after themselves. they have regular input from the hv and the service provided through our childrens centre (surestart project)

wannaBeWhateverIWannaBe · 22/04/2007 22:33

the girl I spoke of in previous post had support from ss, from nspcc and her hv. But this did not stop her being unable to interact properly with her dd, and although everyone did try hard for about 18 months the dd was eventually taken into care, but as I said, was taken on by a member of her extended family.

Original poster

cornflakegirl · 23/04/2007 10:09

wannabe - that's kind of how i feel. i know that sometimes it really is best for a child to be removed. i just don't know how you can tell that at 3 months.

i thought that there would be people working with her, getting support from other agencies. she's part of a great church and we want to help her, but we need help to know how to do that. it just feels like they've given up on her so quickly

i really hope her social worker will talk to me today.

OP posts:

Original poster

cornflakegirl · 27/04/2007 14:30

Just wanted to come back and post because we've now been able to speak to my friend's social worker. She's apparently having a lot more difficulties than we realised - including stuff like bathing her dd safely.

Knowing this makes SS's position seem much more reasonable. Although I still really hope that they'll find a way to keep my friend and her dd together.

OP posts:

stargate · 28/04/2007 01:10

been thinking about this all week. are they still together at the moment?

nappyaddict · 28/04/2007 01:15

sorry what is an assessment unit?

this has scared me as i am worried about a similar thing happening with my ds and was holding onto the fact that SS wouldn't take him away unless there was a real danger of neglect.

nappyaddict · 28/04/2007 01:21

what about if there was someone she could live with, so she wouldn't be on her own? what about the baby's dad?

FoghornLeghorn · 28/04/2007 07:36

such a shame but it does sound like SS are trying to help. It is verylikely there are more underlying problems no-one else is aware of apart from SS.
I do hope they manage to give your friend the helo she needs though - such a shame to see families split up when there could be a way around it.

FoghornLeghorn · 28/04/2007 07:36

Are you OK Nappyaddict ?

Flip

1 2 3 4