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No bond at 12 months. :(

127 replies

RozfromFraisier · 15/09/2017 20:13

DD is our second, we have a 3 year old who I absolutely adore with all my heart.

I just feel very little towards her. Never have. I wasn't too worried in the early days/months, but am concerned now. It's going on a bit long, isn't it?

What if I never love her very much? She's a nice kid, her Dad really enjoys her. She should have a Mum who enjoys her too.

I can't admit this to a living soul.

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Frenchpoodle · 17/09/2017 10:17

OP (& others) - Theraplay is brilliant for when there are problems with bonding and attachment, there seem to be quite a few trained practitioners in Ireland. I don't know if you might need to pay privately tho. It's lovely, non judgmental therapeutic sessions with loads of bonding activities - and it does work.
Here's a link www.theraplay.org/index.php/find-a-therapist-worldwide/69-therapist-listing-ireland

Or just google Threaplay Ireland if my link is not working (I'm naff at links)

Definitely also speak to your GP in relation to your own wellbeing, and possible PND / anxiety.
I think that it's brilliant that you are recognising what is going on and want to make things different.

RozfromFraisier · 17/09/2017 10:19

This was a link I found good too, a lot of these apply to me

www.postpartumprogress.com/can-you-get-postpartum-depression-after-the-first-year

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RozfromFraisier · 17/09/2017 10:22

Thank k you so much for that link Frenchpoodle. Unfortunately those practitioners are all in Leinster and I am very very far away. But I really appreciate it. Flowers

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opheliacat · 17/09/2017 10:28

Loss of a mother in adolescence is apparently one of the things almost guaranteed to lead to PND and I imagine losing a mother during pregnancy is much the same.

Give it time, is my advice. I didn't even like my son for many months.

QueenNefertitty · 17/09/2017 10:34

@Roz ... I think you're so brave to admit this. I don't want to go "amateur psychologist" on you, but I'm 6 months into psychotherapy for postnatal anxiety which was OCD related, and featured intrusive thoughts (health anxiety, catastrophising, doubting my own sanity and intrusive thoughts of harm- either accidental or deliberate).... I was lucky - under all of that, I didn't doubt I loved my son. But I did begin to feel very disconnected from him- a mental defence mechanism to stop the anxiety I think - it was almost like I loved him TOO much- and it was TOO intense. Kind of the opposite to you, but with disasterous effects too.

Anyway - the reason I say this, is that therapy made me realise none of what I was going through was actually to do with the baby. It was about my abusive childhood and latent PTSD.

It sounds like youve been through an awful lot in the run up to giving birth, and perhaps you just psychologically were at "emotional saturation point"- there was so much going on- that adding developing a bond with your new baby into the mix, there just wasn't enough headspace?

Your feelings for your first DC were already firmly in place when all the rest happened - hence no trouble with your feelings towards them now.

I hope you don't think I'm overreaching or overstepping the mark, but I don't think your root problem is your bond, or lack of, with the baby as such- I think you sound like there's a lot of "other stuff" that needs dealing with, to clear some space for you to bond with your younger child.

For me, psychotherapy has totally moved me on. I'm not 100% recovered, but nearly there. Maybe you would benefit from something similar? Flowers for you. You're very brave to address the ultimate motherhood taboo.

RozfromFraisier · 17/09/2017 11:07

Looking back I think seeing my mum's reaction to DS encouraged me to see him through rose coloured glasses. He made her so happy. She was in poor health and she looked at him all starry eyed like he made all her pain go away. I saw him as being very valuable at that time. He was so necessary, he had brought joy with him.

But she never met DD and so there was nobody who's eyes I could see her through like that. Still isn't. DH is crazy about her but I also see the unrelenting grind he's subjected to by having a second child as well. So it reflects back my own exhaustion.

She is a very pretty child and she is admired a lot by everyone we meet, as pretty girl babies always are. People coo over her. But I just stand there, bemused. Her looks are accidental, they don't matter. They don't help. Why coo over them? It doesn't make me want to join in.

DH has a pleasant family but they are so far away that they are irrelevant. They have only met her briefly so don't know her very much. They think she's "gorgeous". It's superficial cos they don't know her. Not their fault, of course.

So I suppose I see nothing really reflected back on a day to day basis that would bring grateful tears to my eyes. Maybe if Mum was still here and DD was helping her like DS did, I would value DD more.

Sad
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QueenNefertitty · 17/09/2017 11:15

@roz

I don't think - as a non professional of course- that you sound like someone with "typical" PND. I think you sound like someone who maybe hasn't dealt with the death of their own mother. You talk in your last post about your DS - but only in relation to your DM. Your experience of motherhood, sounds like its got all mixed up with your feelings of grief and loss about your mother. You're seeing your children only in relation to your own "mother/child" experience of first your mothers illness, and then your bereavement.

But I'm not a MH professional- I think you need someone who is, who might well tell you everything I just said is BS- but hopefully they could help you untangle your feelings a bit either way.

I'm so sorry for your loss and your troubles now- but I honestly honestly think you and your family will benefit from therapy of some kind.

Mustang27 · 17/09/2017 11:21

Roz this breaks my heart. I'm expecting my second child for the exact same reason wasn't remotely broody and I'm also suffering horrendously in this pregnancy. Your posts have made me cry this is my absolute biggest fear. I love my son with every ounce of being and terrified I have nothing left for baby 2.

I really hope this passes for you she sounds like a great kid and you a fantastic mum.

doowapwap · 17/09/2017 11:22

This is a very moving thread and I applaud your bravery in admitting this.

But one thing that I've really picked up while reading it, is that you try. You are really involved, you're trying to do things to help. It's positive that you don't blame her for anything, you're not negative about her. I know a woman who actually seriously dislikes her child and let's everyone know. The child is 5 and it's the saddest situation.

I do wonder if it's linked to the loss of your mother. I think an open and honest discussion with your gp is needed. And I feel that in time, you're bond will grow, you're trying and not giving up which is really positive.

Sorry to hear about all the sickness, I hope it's eased and you're able to get some rest Flowers

CheerfulMuddler · 17/09/2017 20:31

I'm not a psychologist either, but I agree with everyone else. You lost your mum, you have PND, you're surviving on little sleep, you have a toddler as well, you've got this guilty secret you feel like you can't share with anyone ... I mean, that's a hell of an emotional load to be carrying. No wonder you don't have any emotional energy left to bond with the baby. I'm seriously impressed you have enough to be a kind and loving parent to two small children.
I agree that if you can get the chance to work through some of those feelings, that might clear enough headspace for the ordinary business of being a mum to your little girl shine through.
Much love.

PinkMoony · 17/09/2017 20:43

Whereabouts are you?

Summerswallow · 17/09/2017 21:34

I have a few suggestions, but I'm not a professional therapist, it's just observations based on the thread.

First, you are being very very harsh in expecting yourself to feel gushing love for a child after being up all night with a vomiting child/parent/waking every hour. I think if you were to get the sleep sorted, then you might get enough energy back to start to deal with the emotional side and I would go for sleep training as a solution to this. I did it when my child was 7 months old and I crashed the car. You can't function on poor sleep and she's a shit sleeper in your words. This coloured my life when I was exhausted.

Second, you may well be depressed, I would say that feeling of flat numbness, dragging yourself through the day, going through the motions, is a very good description of depression, you don't have to be angry, flat is often how it comes out. So, definitely go to the GP and start talking- either talking therapies or anti-depressants or both may give you the much needed lift after a very difficult pregnancy and PND period.

Third- although there is some truth to the 'fake it til you make it' I think you can take it too far. Once you start living a life completely opposite to your true self, you start to feel more and more distanced and weird. I'm not saying don't cuddle or snuggle or have fun feeding. But if you are relentlessly trying to do this all day every day, you are setting yourself up for failure. I believe strongly in authenticity in parenting, so that it's ok to be yourself, and not feel always like doing stuff with your children. I think if you are too self-sacrificing and always just put your own emotions and feelings and poor health to one side, then that resentment bubbles up- or you just suppress and go flat, and I wonder if that has happened here. I would not try to be constantly interacting, clowning about, cuddling and having fun if actually you feel dead inside. Do a bit of it and then relax and sit back. Your baby can still crawl on you or hang out together. I think you are probably exhausting yourself pretending to be a great mum when you feel awful, and allowing yourself a window to be not great, with a few moments of greatness would be just fine too.

If you then did some play therapy, or even just set aside time to have fun together, but there was a timed end to it, it wouldn't feel like this endless period. I find playing quite boring anyway and didn't do that much on the ground pretend play - so I did lots of things I do like, like going to the park, reading or watching TV together, and left my husband do to the more active/imaginary/fun days out stuff. You don't have to do it all yourself, and being yourself is also important too, even in the mothering relationship.

I think this is fixable if you tackle it from many fronts, and I'd start with the sleeping!

PinkMoony · 18/09/2017 09:23

DDP is a therapy which works on increasing the bond between parent and child

ddpnetwork.org/

RozfromFraisier · 18/09/2017 09:47

You have all been kinder than I expected. I can't believe you have all been so kind.

I am off sick today with the dreaded gastroenteritis everyone else had, so rang the doctor and they gave me an appointment later this morning. One of the better things about Ireland, the ability to get doctor's appointments easily enough. I was going to do it tomorrow but since I'm off anyway best get it over with. I am weak as a kitten and very very emotional so will probably get upset and I don't even know what to say. She's a nice lady but has no kids and won't understand. I don't know how to phrase it so she takes it seriously when I don't even know what help I'm looking for or whether I even have PND or not. I hope I don't feel like a fool. I don't know what to even say.

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RozfromFraisier · 18/09/2017 09:48

The shame at having to say it out loud.

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smogsville · 18/09/2017 09:54

You poor thing OP. Parenting is hard enough without this hanging over you. Echo other posters suggestions re speaking to someone well qualified IRL. You deserve support.

Summerswallow · 18/09/2017 09:56

Don't worry about crying, doctors have seen it all. Just explain how flat you feel and disconnected from your new baby, and about your bereavement. I think they will be able to at least screen you for PND. That's not a solution to everything, but as I said, it's about hitting it on all fronts- perhaps getting some outlet for the bereavement, help with sleeping, PND and so on and allowing the emotions to start up again.

QueenNefertitty · 18/09/2017 10:19

@roz

When I confessed to my GP that I couldn't control my anxiety and obsessive compulsive disorder, and that I'd convinced myself I had Postpartum Psychosis, I was fully expecting her to call SS and tell them to take my baby.

Instead she held my hand and said "nobody tells you how hard being a mother can be in THIS way, do they... I understand. You're not psychotic. You're exhausted."

She didn't have kids, just a fucktonne of compassion - hopefully your GP will have the same understanding - and if she doesn't then see another until SOMEBODY hears you, and gets what you need.

I'm thinking of you - and I know it feels unlikely now, but I promise you, its going to get better, even if the 'better' isn't instant-love-connection with your DD, but at least some self-love and compassion for yourself and everything you're dealing with

Flowers
lostfrequencies · 18/09/2017 10:28

I'm currently having a lot of support through the infant mental health team. They're working with me to improve the bond between me and my baby. It has been tough but things are getting better. I was referred via the health visitor - do you have a similar set up in Ireland?

RozfromFraisier · 18/09/2017 11:39

Just back. She was very nice. She actually looked moved at one point and brushed tears away. She prescribed me 10mg Lexapro but only for 30 days and I have to go back to her in 4 weeks for review. She referred me to CIPC which is the health services counselling services. She put down on the form that it should be a counsellor specialising in post natal stuff. The wait is 8-10 weeks but what can you do.

So I guess now I just take the tablets and wait and see.

I feel very humble and very small. Very tearful. (She put tearful ++ on the referral form, I felt stupidly embarrassed)

I feel ashamed, I have to take medication to start to love my baby, some mother I am.

But I said I will do whatever it takes and I will. I won't give up. She was laughing like mad today at this horsey toy I was making kiss her and I just felt so sorry for her. I do feel a lot of compassion there. Poor kid. I hope one day I will look back on this and it will shock me at the difference. I always felt this warm rosy glow of my Mother's love and she needs to have that too.

I always assumed cos I had a wonderful Mother that it would be second nature to me. I hadn't a clue.

Anyway I'm droning on now. I want to thank each and every one of you for your kindness, especially the ones who said they were the same. It has made me feel less freakish. I hope we all get better. I hope someday in the not too distant future I can update this thread with good news.

FlowersFlowersFlowers

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SecretFreebirther · 18/09/2017 12:19

Oh I'm so glad you had a good doctor. I did too and it made such a difference to feel listened to and understood without being judged. I hope the tablets work, and don't forget if they don't you can always try a different one. Absolutely everything you've said resonates with me and it's reassuring to know I'm not alone in this. I did the bonding scale thing you mentioned and scored very highly so think I'm going to have to tell my HV Sad

Sloeberrygin · 18/09/2017 12:26

Roz I was thinking about you this morning as you'd said you were going to go to the GP, and have just seen that you did go. So a massive well done! You were so brave- such a huge thing to do, and you did it. I'm honestly so impressed, you're clearly determined to get this sorted.

I'm glad you had a sympathetic GP that listened to you (and not only that, but heard what you were saying to her).

I hope you start feeling a difference with the tablets too. Did she confirm whether she did think it was PND? I'm guessing they're antidepressants?

You're not droning on at all, this is something that I've never heard anyone else talking about before. Selfishly it's helping me hugely to hear other people's stories. And I would love to keep hearing how you're getting on.

Sloeberrygin · 18/09/2017 12:29

If you don't mind me asking, how did you word it with the GP? I know I should try and find some help with this too but I just can't imagine starting that conversation. How do you actually say it?!

Also (sorry, just catching up with this thread!) sorry you've all been struck down with a horrid gastro thing. Hope you're starting to feel a bit better soon.

RozfromFraisier · 18/09/2017 12:50

Yes they're antidepressants. Takes two weeks to have any effect so I have to be patient. She said it was atypical PND but said the vast majority are atypical, that obviously she gets some people who tick every box but a great many who don't.

She asked me a lot of questions. One that really shocked me was when she asked me what I was looking forward to. I couldn't think of a single thing. Had never occurred to me. I was taken aback by that.

I went in and said"I think I should be assessed for PND" I had rehearsed that line. Then I said that maybe it's not as the baby is 12 months now but she immediately interrupted and said "doesn't matter" which was encouraging. I said looking back the last year had been hell and there wasn't a single thing I had enjoyed. But I said I had spent the year rationalising it as normal when you have 2 under 2 and no family and a bereavement and trouble breastfeeding etc etc. But I said the thing prompted this visit and the thing that I can't rationalise is that I have no bond to the baby (started to blub at this point). And we talked a bit about that then. Does that help?

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Sloeberrygin · 18/09/2017 13:14

Rehearsing it was a good idea. Just starting feels like a big thing! She does sound like a great GP, I'm so pleased she was supportive.

How are you feeling about things now?