Kids being cruel to new kittens

[maggiethemagpie]

We've just got two kittens and our children, 6 and 3 keep manhandling them and on two occasions have trapped them in enclosed spaces deliberately. I'm not sure of the best way to deal with this as we've told them a million times to be gentle, and used naughty step when we've caught them being rough.
Eg - throwing the kitten, holding/lifting by paws, putting in laundry basket and closing lid.

Final straw was tonight when one kitten went missing and i heard it mewing and found it in a box in the kids room with the lid on, in quite an enclosed space and it had been there at least an hour.

Don't know how to get them to stop- wwyd?

My son was tested for autism but came back as NT - just late in his speech development. My daughter is very sociable and has not shown any signs of ASD to my mind (I know a little about it from when my son was assessed) but then again I'm not an expert so can't be totally sure. I'd say it's unlikely given that she has been normal for all other social development milestones .

As I say, total surprise to me that she's done this (if it is her who put kitten in box) so please be gentle with me as it is very out of character.

I doubt she understood. If you want to keep the kittens I would just keep them away from the children unsupervised.

I'd be a bit concerned about your son. Sometimes though rough play is normal at this age but it sounds like he's taking it a step further and being a bit of a bully. Would he understand this if you said this to him?

Yeah I just said I was giving them back Fluffy ok?

This is why we need pet licenses!

Op, please do something immediately! Poor babies!

I was unsure whether to post this publicly or inbox you. Neither seemed right. Abhorrent animal cruelty aside, your parenting seems naive to put it politely.

Now this might, possibly understandably have to do with your son's previous issues. I've not read the previous threads hinted at so I have no clue what went on there but, fuck me, I've been through some tough times with my own kids. There's more a few times I could've done with intervention.

It's far from ideal that any cruelty at all was allowed to be repeated, not just the box incident but the throwing, picking up by the paws etc.

You come across like you need some support in guiding your children towards better choices.

I've tried to word that as gently as possible. In short, reach out for help, ask for some parenting classes, they'll make the world of difference both to your children's behavior and your stress levels.

In the meantime, please re home the kittens.

She said she's giving them away, it 2am, do you want her to dial 999? 🙄

Thank you mother of bleach I had indeed come on mumsnet in search of support, advice etc do you have anything in particular you could suggest?

I was referred to parenting classes via the school. I'd start there.

When they were first offered to me, I refused, imagining them to be full of 'chavs' whose kids played up because they weren't loved enough. That's not the case at all. I met some lovely, supportive people from all walks of life who just needed a bit of advice and support.

If the school come up empty, try your GP. They're there to help.

Thank you for your wise words mother of bleach

Maggie my guess would be that your son out the kitten in the box. I think it would be very unlikely the 3 year old did. I also think he knew what he was doing was wrong and harmful.

I hope you are being honest when you say you are rehoming. You went from refusing to listen or consider it to agreeing to rehome very suddenly.

With regards to your son - there are other things than ASD that could be considered. If nursery had worried enough to get him assessed, maybe it is worth keeping an open mind. Parenting classes can be very helpful. I was very put out when they were suggested to me initially but actually they were a source of great support and camaraderie. I also suggest you familiarise yourself with child development and psychology a little more. To think your 6 yr old is too young to lie is naive in the extreme! Mine were both fluent and talented liars from 2yrs!

I think a three-year-old is too young to be trusted alone with a kitten as everything involved with taking care of a small and vulnerable animal is outside her cognitive ability, IMHO. My dd was always a magnet for animals, but when she was 2.6 years old we had to rehome a kitten because she kept on carrying it by its neck. By the time she was five she knew a lot better.

And yes, six-year-old are well able to lie, but he shouldn't be left in charge of a three-year-old and kittens, that is way too much responsability.

OP, even once you have removed the kittens to a safer place/back to the shelter your children HAVE TO LEARN how to interact with animals in a respectful way. You can't just keep them away from all animals because they can't be trusted.

You need to seriously sort out that behaviour.
Is this the first time they have been around animals at all??

I too think it was likely your 6 year old - sorry.

But even your 3 year old, if NT, should be able to tell you why she put the kitten in the box if it was her.

You can supervise like a hawk, and I would consider taking my DC and kittens to an appointment at the vet and asking the vet beforehand if they'd put the fear of god into them about the cat's welfare.

But if it is too much at this stage of your lives, do rehome them - take the cats shelter's advice anyway.

You are making the right decision to re home and I hope you follow through with it.

I wouldn't get into a long drawn out conversation with your children re why you are doing it. Tell them after.

It is not just the children who don't deserve pets. You did not take proper responsibility. I can only imagine how angry I would have been if my children had abused our pets, yet you have allowed multiple occurrences. Return them and don't consider taking on any more pets until you are willing to take proper responsibility.

A 6 year old too young to lie?? Are you joking?

You need to pull up your parenting socks. Your 3 year old is more liable to pick up behaviour from the 6 year old and very unlikely to trap a kitten in a box.

Take off your blinkers and get your 6 year old to some sort of behaviour therapy because if you don't sort it now you are in for a hell of a lot of trouble in the future.

Take away any privileges your 6 year old has, including trips planned, games etc for a while so they understand they have crossed the line as what you are doing atm isn't getting through to them.

Never met a child that hasn't been kind to animals. Hell I remember some really rough street kids coming round to my house when I was little to sit, play and stroke with all our pets (we had a house full of kids and pets). These were kids who scared grown ups but my mum used to let them round in the summer holidays to play in the garden (supervised of course) with all the guinea pigs, rabbits, cats and our dog. They even used to come round and clean the cages out with us. They even used to knock on our door and ask if our dog could come out and play.

My mum took no shit from them and her kids and taught them and us that hurting animals was the lowest form of human behaviour. No pussy footing around, told us straight. at 6 I knew this but hurting an animal has never crossed my mind.

Have your children never interacted with animals before?

They are abusing them and treating them like toys.

Perhaps seek out a shelter or vets who are treating abused animals and take your 6 year old so they can show and explain how bad animal abuse is. Maybe the cold hard facts in a visual form will get home to them.

Hope you can get it sorted op and glad you are sending the kittens back.

I think rehoming is the right thing to do. It concerns me that you have allowed multiple incidents of animal abuse before considering this. Please don't sugar coat it to your children either - even a 3 year old is old enough to know the kittens have had to go away because they hurt them. It's important your children learn that their behaviour was very bad and very serious. You also shouldn't get any more pets even when your children are much older unless you are willing to commit to the responsibility of proper supervision, which has clearly been lacking here.

Also using AST as an "excuse" for the 6 year olds animal cruelty behaviour is pretty low. I have a nephew with AST (an adult now), had several friends growing up with ASD symptoms (from mild to severe, but only got diagnosed as adults) and my partner has many Asperger traits.

Not one was or is cruel to animals. My nephew who couldn't even talk to you or look you in the eyes but his pets would bring him alive and he would talk to you for hours about them al, and would get very upset if he even saw a worm in a puddle. (Took my sis hours to walk to the shops as he had to rescue every one) He was taught how animals were special and needed our love and care.

Again it was all down to parenting to teach them.

Rehome immediately. Frankly I'm tempted to think this thread should be referred on to the RSPCA for them to investigate into animal cruelty.
Are you going to wait until one of your kittens suffers a painful injury like broken paw?
I have young children and kittens and whilst they are sometimes trying to stroke them when the kittens clearly have no interest but not once did they, nor would they dare, do any of the behaviour you've outlined.
I'd also suggest you get help for your kids to work out why they're persisting with this behaviour, cruelty to animals often being a precursor to wider issues.

Jesus wept!

You seem completely inadequate as a parent. Sorry if that upsets you but you don't seem to understand the severity of what your dc are doing to two tiny kittens!

Send the kittens back and let them be homed by someone who will treat them properly. I feel sick thinking of them being treated so badly and will likely traumatise the kittens into becoming very aggressive as they get older unless they are removed from your house now.

And your inability to see that a 6 year old is capable of lying is pretty unbelievable. You don't think your children are doing anything wrong, you think they are behaving normally albeit a bit boisterous and can't see that just because a child is sociable in nursery that they may be incapable of being careful with a tiny animal.

Get onto a parenting course please. And get those kittens out of your house today. I am absolutely fuming reading this.

How long have you had the kittens for OP? It makes a difference slightly if you've had them for weeks or months and this has been happening, or if it's been a week or a few days. (Weeks or months and they've had ample time to reign in their behaviour).

Do you think the children are being deliberately cruel or just very rough and careless? What do they say when you ask them why they are being so mean to the kittens? Do they show remorse / can they empathise with the kittens?

You mentioned that you got them from a rescue - maybe you could take your children to the rescue and ask a worker there to talk to them about the sad cases of animal neglect they see, and to explain why people should be very nice to animals and how to treat them properly.

Agree with PP that you need to drum in to their children's heads that animal abuse is the lowest of the low.

A relative's 5-year-old son has a puppy that he's so cruel to because he is so jealous of it. He treads on its legs and paws when he thinks no-one is watching, pinches and punches it, throws it and otherwise hurts it. All very slyly. We are NC with said relative and I worry about this poor little puppy all the time. If you think your children are anything like that, then 100% rehome.

I agree, there are some major issues going on here, children should have a natural empathy towards other living creatures, yes sometimes when they're young and not used to animals they may have to be taught how to handle in a more gentle way but to be deliberately cruel repeatedly there's something gone badly wrong.

It's also worrying that you don't realised all children lie. You'll be played like a fiddle by your children. They'll not be guided correctly between right and wrong. Of course children will still do wrong sometimes but if they don't know the difference in the first place then this type of thing can occur. How is you sons empathy towards other people in general? Your younger child will copy what the older one does.

Oh and totally agree with mycats, get yourself on a fucking parenting course.

The fact you had to come onto mumsnet to ask advice because "the naughty step" wasn't working at stopping your kids hurting tiny defenceless kittens, didn't even rehome the kitties after continual abuse, didn't even know where the kittens were and left the kittens unsupervised and don't think your son lies ( he is not a darling son but really being a little git who knows how to get away with things and blame others for his own actions) you are lacking some serious common sense here.

. You either have your head up your own la la land or need help how to parent.

Sorry to sound a bitch but I'm so angry at you that you had to even ask for advice about this and didn't even consider rehoming until other posters told you to.

I'm going to stroke my own old cats and open up a can of tuna in water for a treat for them