I don't like my 18month old. I'm worried I don't love her either

[Faffandahalf]

This is going to be long. Sorry. I just need to get it out after another long day.

DD is 18 months. Her older brother is 5. I thought he was going to be an only and we decided we wanted another more for him than us.

I had a very traumatic birth and could have died. As with DS I had PND and didn't bond with DD at all. Didn't love her really etc. After 9 months I thought it was all ok. I was happier and she was so much more fun.

She has always been difficult however. She has always been clingy and whingy and won't go to anyone but me.

The last 2-3 months have been horrendous.

She barely eats except snacks. She won't eat any lunch or dinner except fruit but will scream and cry and tantrum for snacks. When we are out (school
Run, bus) I have to give in because I can't leave the school run for example and she will just scream and scream and try to escape from her buggy or run off screaming. I can't get on and off a bus every 5 minutes so have to give her these snacks to stop the meltdowns.

She tantrums all day long over every tiny thing. Her tantrums are not just crying but screaming thumping throwing hitting scratching.
She won't be cuddled or held during these at all and will hit me if I try.

If I tell her off or say no she screams in my face and hits me or throws things.

She doesn't play with any toys at all ever. She really doesn't. She has a passing interest in books and occasionally a toy for 5 min.
Otherwise she spends all day clinging to me following me around. She won't let me cook without clinging to my legs and screaming. She won't sit and play with me. She wants to scribble with pens which is fine so that's her only 'playing'. She then ends up trying to draw on stuff she shouldn't. Cue more screams.

I go out with her everyday I'm off work. It's ok. She's not so bad at playgroup but she is easily pissed off at the other kids and gets frustrated if she can't do things her way.

She can't sit for singing time at all. We always have to leave because she wants to get the tidied up toys out again.

There's so much more to say but I'm exhausted writing this.

She won't stay with her dad or my family at all for even a second if I'm around. I can't do bedtime with DS properly because she wants my attention all the time. She won't let him touch me. He now pretty much hates her.

I just don't like her. I'm regretting having her. I miss DS. I love him so much and I don't feel that way about her at all. He wasn't like this at all.

There are little moments where she smiles at me or cuddles me and I feel that rush of love again and hold her tight to me to soak it in. But it's not enough. I'm not coping.

Not sure what I'm asking for really. Just a sympathetic ear I suppose. I don't know how to change her behaviour.

Can you not all discuss the way forward as a family?

I think you are trying to be kind to your in laws but that's making the situation prolonged!

Decide what to do

Also - why is a 5 year old going to bed before an 18 month old?? Surely she should go first? Then DS could have a story from dad downstairs?

Please dont start carrying around an 18mo in a sling facepalm

She is still so very young, I wouldn't expect a child of that age to understand 'consequences'. Toddlers if this age can't really communicate with sentences, you're lucky to get the odd word. 'Book' 'Chair', Cake, etc. I think you're expecting too much of her.

Could you do an earlier bedtime for her, with DS going up 30 minutes after her?

Try reading Playful Parenting.it has loads of useful suggestions for how to play with a child allowing them to direct the play. It really really helped me to bond better with DS who was very similar in behaviour. I learnt so much in those play sessions about what was going on with DS (indirectly by observing and paying attention to what he said and did while bossing me around (generally what his play with me consisted o). I always set a timer as I found it quite difficult to do and 30mins was usually my limit but it was really worth it and DS soon happlly accepted the time limit as he loved the play so much.

What's the situation with your in laws? I might be reading too much into it, but if you are worried about the noise of her tantrum while they eat, it sounds like you might not be fully relaxed around them which is pretty stressful way to live. Could there be a feeling of stress that your dd is picking up on?

Massive sympathies.

And please ignore all the judgey advice about how it's all your fault because you give in. She's barely a toddler. You can't battle with an 18 month old like that. You won't win.

My DD was basically a nightmare from 10 months onwards. To the point where I felt housebound because she used to go bananas when I put her in the buggy (I didn't drive). Well meaning people suggested a sling too Slings are lovely but could I heave them around in one past about six months? Nope.

But I digress. Not many people understand how soul destroying it is to have a "difficult" baby/toddler until you have one. I used to joke that I was in an abusive relationship. I lost my rag and screamed so many times. My mental health was in tatters. Did I like her or love her all the time? Absolutely not.

By the age of 2/3 she was the kind of kid who could start a fight in an empty room. If she could turn something into a battle she would (eating, toileting...)

I know this doesn't feel like much consolation, but my DD was a different child by the time she turned four. And at five is brilliant. Extremely demanding of time and attention? Yes. Still has major food issues. But there's no concern that there's anything developmentally wrong with her.

But I haven't forgotten how difficult her early years were.

You say she wouldn't understand you explaining consequences to her. But she has learned that if she screams for long enough she gets her way. This means she is capable of understanding surely?

I really really really do feel for you. If you think the problem could be made worse by some sort of delay or deficit it may be worth investigating further. In the meantime praise every second she spends doing something without you/behaves nicely/eats a bit of her dinner to the point you bore yourself.

My 23 month old is very similar to this, he is driving me crazy with the constant need to sit on me, wreck everything and then throw something at me if i say no. Wont eat dinner but begs for snacks too. I am now ignoring his bad behaviour. Its hard tho. But it is only a phase. IT will get better when they can communicate better. Don't beat yourself up- this is a turbulent age.

My first had terrible screaming, thrashing tantrums around 18 months & I ignored her. She would continued to scream & thrash until exhaustion stopped her. I noticed that she got to a point she had lost control & I don't think she could have stopped even if she wanted to. I read online some stuff about tantrums & I decided to cuddle her & calm her down instead of ignoring her. Initially she tried to fight me but I just held her & the tantrums ended quickly. It was much better for her & me. She didn't get what she wanted but she stayed calm & she stopped having tantrums within 2 weeks. She is 4 now & I still give her a cuddle if she gets upset.

You say she wouldn't understand you explaining consequences to her. But she has learned that if she screams for long enough she gets her way. This means she is capable of understanding surely?

I disagree.

I think that's projecting quite a sophisticated sense of manipulation onto an 18 month old.

Some toddlers are just screamers. Whether their parent "gives in" or not is immaterial.

OP, it sounds exhausting.
Do you think there could be more going on? How is her understanding? Does she understand simple instructions like 'where are your shoes?' If you asked her where her brother was, would she turn to him? Does she point, either to things she wants or things she sees? Does she share with you; biscuit, cracker etc? How is her non verbal communication (pointing, clapping, waving, gesturing)? Does she copy you so if you banged two blocks together, would she? Does she play with toys appropriately? At 18mths they aren't proficient with toys but do enjoy stacking wooden blocks or those pressing buttons/turning knobs type of things. In terms of snacks, is she craving an excess of dairy or wheat products?

I'm not trying to alarm you or suggest anything is wrong but it's often easy to say they're just fine and they'll grow out of whatever but sometimes we need to just keep a closer eye out.

Also, you mention the traumatic birth; was it physically traumatic for her too? If so have you considered cranial osteopathy? My son has other issues too but CO made a dramatic difference to his level of screaming as a baby.

Not read whole thread so apologies if repeating others.
Sounds really really hard.
Any possibility of an undiagnosed food intolerance underlying her constantly off behaviour?
Could you contact your local children centre & ask about the interventions their psychologist offers? Def worth getting her behaviour/development/your joint dynamic looked at by an outside eye.
Ps think it's a strong position to be in that you can admit to yourself you don't currrently like her. Really hard to be in that place but your honesty is important in finding a way through

So sorry to hear you're going through this, OP.

I agree with those posters who suggest thinking about underlying food intolerance. I've seen persistently bad tempered and disagreeable, screaming toddlers morph in a matter of days into much calmer happier little humans in a matter of days when diagnosed (with coeliac disease in one case; cow's milk protein intolerance in another).

And if food allergy/intolerance/other health or developmental factors are ruled out: be as kind as you can manage - to yourself and your DD. I know it sounds trite but take it from
the wisdom of the Mumsnet Elders: This Too Shall Pass.

multivac

I had a similar experience.

In my (extremely humble) opinion there are two types of tantrums

1 - I want ice cream but mum said no
2 - I am tired and overwhelmed and everything is bothering me

There are two time outs

1 - into room/corner for x amount of time until parent says
2 - into room corner until child decides he/she is ready to come and cooperate

We use time out number 2 for tantrum number 1.

At that age though I do think you might want to try focusing on one issue at a time.

So for example you might want to work on snacking. If this causing you frustration and you are sick of dealing with it then work on this and only this for until it's resolved then move onto the next issue.

I had a snack problem too at that age more than happy to help if you want it

Yes, really.

There are issues here that started before this little girl's birth (PND with the older child, with evidently no counselling or similar to shore things up if it happened again; this baby being conceived more as a sibling than in her own right). Then birth trauma, PND again (and again no counselling etc), and a real leaden sense of discouragement and dislike in the OP, not 'just' frustration with difficult behaviour. Add that to the comparisons with the older brother and it all looks as if this situation has the potential to become entrenched and go very wrong. The baby will be picking up on this. Children are barometers of the atmospheres around them.

There's been a bit of a renaissance lately of what I might call punitive parenting - the idea that even very, very young children seek to 'manipulate' and 'get their way' and need, to put it in shorthand, putting in their places. A lot of posts are reflecting this. Children of this age are still forming the attachments that will see them through life. They seek their caregivers' attention and affection, but they don't 'manipulate', certainly not in the morally loaded way adults understand and use it. OP, you are unhappy with this behaviour - I am sure your dd is unhappy too. Look at it like that. She would not be behaving like this if she were not happy. And as her parent, for good or ill, it is your job to find out how you can help her feel happier and more secure. Your post is a lot about your feelings, and her brother's - that she was intended as a sibling, that your ds hates her, that she gives you moments of joy now and again - what are you giving her?

I'm not speaking from some ivory tower. I have three children and they are/have been all very, very full-on indeed at various stages. My 18mo wants me all the time, still wakes in the night to bf and sleeps ridiculously little. It's draining and I have moments of pure exhaustion and frustration. But she's 18 months, developing fast and just beginning to try and make sense of a confusing world. So often we expect of tiny children what we would never expect, or make excuses for, in ourselves.

Argh. 'She would not be behaving like this if she were happy'.

Get an Aquadraw or similar, with a giant mat, and let her scribble with that. Get huge sheets of paper and sit her on them to scribble. Look at what she's interested in and follow that. At playgroup perhaps take with you one toy she likes and let her keep it during singing time - engage her in the singing, join in, clap. Most toddlers are responsive to music. On that subject, are you sure her hearing's OK? Have a look at her responses to noises and voices, particularly yours.

It can't hurt to get her tested for food intolerances, but she may be a grazer by nature, at least atm. Grazing is healthy for babies and their small stomachs. She won't understand the concept of square meals or the cultural idea we have of 'snacking' being bad. I really, really wouldn't make that into a problem. All being well (and the snacks being healthy), it should regulate itself. The time for intervening there is later.

Have been here lovely xxx the early years can be really tough. Many of us have stood in your shoes. I actually did find a toddler sling was a total god send. This too shall pass. Xxx

It's a tough age, but it will get better.

My DD was exactly like this and I really do think the posters talking about 'giving in' to her tantrums or 'letting her get her own way' are taking out their arse. Until you have a baby like this you have no idea. No clue at all.

My DS was a dream. I am big on boundaries but also fairness. My DS didn't really ever tantrum. Then DD came along. Could tantrum for 2 hours straight. Not kidding. Rejected all forms of comforting. Would repeatedly punch me in the face when I tried to cuddle her. Could go without food for a day. She didn't respond to reward charts, cuddles, time outs, anything - and we are calm, consistent parents. There was nothing 'wrong' with her. Nothing the GP could diagnose. She wouldn't leave me Alone, wound tantrum If I went for a wee!! I started to resent her taking me away from DS. Like you,OP, I wondered if I even loved her. I wasn't depressed, I was just exhausted. Me and DH nearly split up.

She is now 6 and the kindest, funniest little girl who we all adore. She's doing exceptionally well at school. She lights up a room. She and DS get on like a house on fire. Me and DH repaired our relationship.

What changed? Nothing. We carried on being the calm, consistent parents we always were. (With more losing our rags when things got very bleak!) She grew out of it.

A friend had a DS like this. Her conclusion? Some babies/ toddlers just don't like being toddlers. Sounds daft but there's something in that.

As DD got more language, could walk (she was late with both), could be reasoned with (you can't reason with an 18 month old, don't care what anyone says), and could do more stuff herself, she gradually chilled out. She needs stronger boundaries than DS but even so, nothing major. But you can't do boundaries with a baby, and your LO is still a baby.

It will get better in time. I know that's hard to hear while you are in the thick of it. But it will get better. And then you will, too.

Sending you love, strength and understanding xx

Good post Born

My Ds is 6. I look back on when he was 18 months and i really didn't enjoy it much! I used to avoid taking him out if i could.

I remember someone making a comment when he was tantrumming in Sainsburys. She said to her daughter 'ugh, you were never like that' I wanted to punch her in her stupid face.

Anyway! He's mainly lovely now! I actually enjoy taking him out and spending time with him.

I have a 5 month old DD and am just praying she is an easier toddler!

You're not alone. Kids can be right bellends. But you'll be fine

Hetero, i agree with your posts, especially your observation that this problem has the potential to become entrenched and to make everyone in the family miserable. OP, you can't help how you feel about your daughter, but i will add my voice to those who recommend that you access professional support to understand where these feelings are coming from. This situation will not magically get better by itself. It sounds like you have two unhappy children and you sound miserable and overwhelmed yourself. That's not a criticism, but it's something that you will need support to change

How do PIL help out with all this? Do you feel judged? Is there any chance you could move out so you have space to parent?

Thanks for all the replies overnight and this morning. I knocked out at 11.

So....
I think I'm going to go to the GP and ask about possible intolerances/food issues. Also get hearing/ears checked.

Will do some reading based on recommendations here.

I don't have time to go on a parenting course tbh. I'm just too busy with work as well but will have a look.

In terms of what to do in the moment I'm still not sure. Ignore. Don't ignore. I know cuddles and love bombing doesn't help during the screaming. She will lash out not
calm down.
I also know I can't reason with her, explain etc

I do love her. She woke up this morning and laughed when she saw me and it was lovely and I felt that warmth that spreads through your body when you look at your child.
This morning so far has been relatively calm so I'm feeling less bleak that yesterday.

I will try more focused play time with her. I do that anyway.
Will get an aqua doodle maybe.

Need to work on snack situation. She's obsessed with those baby oaty bars. Filled with raisins so I'm worried about her teeth too! Brushing teeth is another one on the list. Forgot about that one. We barely get a proper teeth brushing round here.

But one thing at a time!